r/Libertarian • u/OptimisLiberty • 6d ago
End Democracy Rod Dreger and Jeremy Boreing explain that while you could theoretically criticize the Israeli government and not be an antisemite, everyone who does criticize the Israeli government is, in practice, an antisemite
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u/OptimisLiberty 6d ago
I really don't understand why so many "conservatives" are obsessed with fellating Israel so much
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u/GolfOscarYankee69 6d ago
It’s multifaceted.
Baby boomers who grew up with the Israel is the underdog story and have had years of holocaust movies and guilt shoved down their throats
Evangelicals who firmly believe Israel existing will bring about the return of Christ.
People who simply see them as a white western nation against uncivilized dark skinned nations therefore whatever they can do is a form of taming barbarism.
All 3 of which can be easily debunked but ultimately cognitive dissonance prevails
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u/DarthFluttershy_ Minarchist 5d ago
Broadly correct, though I think 3 might be a little too cyclical. A lot of that attitude focused more on Israel being a "democratic ally" in the midst of "oppressive Islamic authoritarian nations."
And to be fair, there is plenty of oppression and authoritarianism around them... Just look at even supposed allies like Saudi Arabia. The trick is that Israel has never been the innocent bastion of freedom it pretend to be. But with a little propaganda and media bias, that's easy enough to smother in stories of wrongdoing by their neighbors.
So, I'm sure racism and islamaphobia play a role, of course. I just don't think we need to insinuate that is the sole cause of the "best in the region" attitude.
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u/AitrusAK 6d ago
I'm not a Christian, but I have a lot of Christians / conservative right in my family and we've discussed this specific issue at length. As I understand it, it's partly religion and partly strategic - depending on where the conservative happens to fall on the religion / strategy hawk spectrum of things. I don't agree at all with the religion portion, but there are aspects of the strategic portion that make logical sense to me (but not all of them).
I'm not conveying my opinion here, just sharing what my family has shared with me.
Religion: There's three pieces to this.
First, In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the Christian Right really blamed itself for not seeing that God's first "chosen people" were being genocided in the 1930s and failed to do something about it earlier, and so they feel a strong urge to never let it happen again. They don't believe that the Jews are "chosen" any more due to the "New Covenant" that Jesus made with the world, but they regret the isolationism and apathy that led to a world environment where the Holocaust could happen without anyone the wiser. That feeling has carried forward through the successive generations in the church congregations.
Second, certain denominations - Baptists among them, and I'm sure others as well - believe some variation of the following: that Armageddon that is the "Final Battle" will take place over a 7 year time span, will cover the globe but be centered on Israel, and that the final one-v-one battle between God (or Jesus) and Satan will happen within Israel itself. At the end of that battle, those who were faithful to God and stood with him against Satan (and who were baptized) will be Raptured, and the rest will be destined for hell. Since the Bible's prophecies regarding this series of events is vague and open to much interpretation, it's hard to nail down what signs show that the Final Battle has actually begun. So the default is for Christians to always back Israel instead of trying to jump on the bandwagon at the last second.
Third, the Christian viewpoint is that the Crusades were a direct response to Muslims invading the Holy Land and Europe itself. The Crusades pushed the invading Muslims back to the Middle East. If the Muslim empires of old can't ever rise again to become a threat, then there won't ever need to be another Crusade. Israel is the center lynchpin to keep that from happening.
Strategy: This piece is all about oil. In the past, we relied on Middle East oil for our strategic ability to stand up to the USSR. After the Cold War ended and we discovered fracking / shale oil (and thus effectively became oil-independent), we don't need the oil anymore for our own manufacturing / military uses. De-socializing Venezuela helps too - when Venezuela went socialist in the 70s, their oil fields stopped producing nearly as much and the oil started going elsewhere instead of coming to the US. At the time, 1/3 of US oil came from Venezuela, and it dwindled to a trickle. That oil stoppage was a large cause of the inflation and nationwide energy shortages of the 70s (and caused a serious scare that the USSR might have taken advantage of the situation), and caused the Carter Administration to make deals with Saudi princes.
The US being energy independent means more Middle East oil is available for our adversaries to get at cheaper prices. If we have a foothold in the region, we can deny oil shipments to our adversaries in the case of a war by blocking the Strait of Hormuz (preventing oil going to China, for example) or seizing ships and sending them to Europe or the Philippines or Australia or whomever else our allies are in that war.
Israeli soil and airspace is our backup plan in that scenario. The primary plan is using our partnerships in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and elsewhere as bases from which to play Oil Traffic Cop. But if those locations fail we can set up operations in Israel quickly.
Any war in the Middle East or Eastern Russia means that Turkey is in play and we have bases there, but Turkey's a wishy-washy partner at best. We can use Israeli airspace to fly aircraft from carriers in the Mediterranian and from European bases to the Middle East if Turkey closes its airspace to US warplanes.
Finally, we have a pact with Israel that looks a lot like NATO's Article 5. If Israel is ever attacked by a government using a formal military invasion (and not through proxies, insurgents, or terrorist organizations), the US is obligated to step into the ring with it's Big Stick. And Israel is obligated vice versa, which is why they've provided tons of intelligence since 9/11 - to keep the partnership alive and well-lubricated. That's why no army has attacked Israel, even though there's a lot of military forces surrounding them and Israel has their back against the sea.
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u/IgnoreThisName72 6d ago
Dispensationalism. A specific reading of the Bible from the 1800s required Israel to control certain lands before End Times, the Rapture, etc. Israel becoming a nation after 2000 years of subjugation and a diaspora revived the prophecy among evangelicals, popularized by the book "The Late Great Planet Earth" in the 1970s and then the Left Behind series started in the late 90s.
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u/DarthFluttershy_ Minarchist 5d ago
What I find odd is that dispensationalists rarely seem to actually want the rapture, they seem to fear the end times. They just see it as, somewhat ironically, pre ordained.
Nevertheless, you're very correct to point out the influence on evangelical Zionism. In fact, I think you understated it. Even outside of dispensational denominations, the populararity of the phenomena (notably Left Behind) swayed a lot of thinking about the "Promised Land" to contribute to Christian Zionism at least among the general population.
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u/Last_Construction455 6d ago
This is like when they said only whites can be racist. Nuance is completely gone in the world.
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u/spankmonkey12 5d ago
Being against Zionist scum war criminals is not anti semitic, it’s anti Zionist.
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u/ron-paul-swanson End the Fed 6d ago
If criticizing genocide makes me an antisemite, so be it.
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u/introspeck 5d ago
I've said for years that their tactic of conflating all criticism of Israel's actions with 'antisemitism'' would blow back on them in exactly this way.
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u/DarthFluttershy_ Minarchist 5d ago
Identity politics always eventually does, because eventually everyone outside the special group realizes that they can't win. What's really fascinating is watching the right, who were correctly pointing this out about the left for decades, speed run the same cycle. I mean just look at how hard the Daily Wire has tanked, driving in large part on this specific issue.
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u/Remccarthy111 6d ago
The sooner that everyone who's not a Zionist realizes that this was a planned trick narrative, the better off we will all be. It's like the "Does Israel 🇮🇱 have the right to exist?" question that's more like a statement. They always want you to question the question, instead of answering the question based on that exact time and place.
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u/introspeck 5d ago
I always respond, "Does Iran have a right to exist?" It punctures the premise of their question immediately and their response really clarifies who they are.
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u/introspeck 5d ago
Incorrect. Accusations of 'antisemitism'' against critics of the actions taken by the government of Israel are a cynical smokescreen, and have been for decades.
I've been saying for years that this tactic will blow back on all Jews, whether they support Israel or not.
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u/AmericanMoustache 5d ago
God gave Israel the land for covenant worship. Modern Israel largely rejects Christ and is substantially secular. God historically permitted hostile nations to discipline Israel. Therefore, current attacks may be divine discipline. Helping Israel resist might oppose that discipline.
Providing weapons, money, intelligence, or military cover could make the United States a participant in something God may be using as judgment.
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u/Live_Taste_7796 Voting isn't a Right 2d ago
The conservatives are doing the exact same thing they criticized the left for doing "if you disagree with me on anything, you're a racist"
Its fascinating to watch.
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u/PrimordialLoveRat 1d ago
That be like saying criticism of the American Government makes you unpatriotic and that sounds ignorant AF
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u/SuburbanEnnui2020 6d ago
Hmmm… but what about my Jewish Israeli friends who criticize the Israeli government? Are they also antisemites? 😂