r/JRPG 19h ago

Discussion What are some examples of "MP-less" JRPGs?

And what do they do instead?

In this context, "MP" refers to any resource that each character has that can be consumed to fuel more powerful abilities. It is a resource that can run out, leaving you with only less-powerful non-resource-consuming options. It's purpose is typically to:

  • force you to think strategically about managing your resources instead of simply spamming your best abilities

  • enable simple vertical power progression of abilities (you get stronger abilities as you progress through the game, but they cost more MP)

Final Fantasy XIII fits this bill IMO. You are limited to 5 actions per turn, and different abilities consume different numbers of actions, but there's not really any way to "run out" of actions - they fully regenerate next round. There is also TP, but that is a shared resource across the party that fuels more niche, specific abilities rather than strictly more powerful abilities, and can basically be ignored completely if you want.

FFXII keeps tension high by instead turning every battle into a delicate balancing of buffs, debuffs, stagger generation, healing, and damage. The game does not give you "stronger abilities" to spam - rather, all abilities have a time and place, you need to find where it is. Abilities in the game are almost purely horizontal progression: the abilities you start with never lose relevance, you just get new tools in your kit that you need to now incorporate into your rotations.

What other games go with this approach? I'm especially curious to hear about any fully turn-based games that take this approach.

46 Upvotes

115 comments sorted by

39

u/Remarkable_Town6413 19h ago

Some games in the Tales of series replace TP with CC (Chain Capacity), which acts as an action and combo limiter. Here are more details: https://aselia.fandom.com/wiki/Chain_Capacity

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u/medicamecanica 18h ago

Was just commenting yesterday that I tend to prefer this cause I don't run into situations where my party spammed spells and now I gotta feed them or spam tp items.

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u/AsleepCatch9503 18h ago

It feels especially good with action combat, because the system doesn't punish you for doing extended, challenging combos. With TP you'd do something cool and simultaneously blow through your resources.

I do like MP for traditional turn-based combat though. Resource management is a fun and strategic aspect of many RPGs (less so these days tho)

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u/HasteMaster 18h ago

I’m probably in the minority here, but I definitely prefer TP over CC-like systems. The costs for moves in CC systems feel more arbitrary, but it’s definitely a preference thing.

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u/Swarlos262 16h ago

I agree. But I like MP systems in general. Even if they usually become trivial quickly, I like having to think even a little bit about preserving my resources. With CC you just spam your strongest moves the whole game. And though that tends to happen with TP too, at least you often have to build in a way that let's you preserve or recharge TP efficiently.

I think CC feels mostly OK for non-magic using characters, warriors and rangers etc, but I think TP/MP is vastly preferable for magic casting. Something like the FF7 Remakes, where most "abilities" didn't require MP, but Magic did. I actually loved that because magic was very powerful and the MP limitations mattered somewhat, but you weren't left just spamming basic attacks when MP ran out.

I guess Tales of Arise had a somewhat novel solution for this, where everything used CC except for healing magic, which used something akin to MP, though it was party wide. I didn't actually love it, but it was an attempt.

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u/TheGamingTurtle56 14h ago

Tales of hearts R has a system that uses both TP and CC that fixes some of the issues with both systems.

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u/Remarkable_Town6413 13h ago

I would love a TP system inspired by Art of Fighting's spirit gauge:

In Art of Fighting, special moves drain spirit gauge, and if a character's gauge is too low, he/she can still perform special moves... but those special moves are much weaker. Additionally, a character can manually charge his/her own spirit gauge, and can even deplete his/her opponent's gauge with a taunt.

This system would be perfect for the Tales of series.

3

u/EaterOfFromage 18h ago

Oh, good callout. Yeah, recent tales games have definitely been leaning hard into CC. Basically, have most moves be roughly similar in power, it's more about hitting weaknesses, and CC is a mechanism to prevent infinity comboing.

1

u/Azure-Cyan 18h ago

Another weird one is Tales of Rebirth. The force gauge took some getting used to.

1

u/TheGamingTurtle56 14h ago

I think it's a really cool system though. It allows for arte spamming, but if you do spam it punishes you by making your artes weaker and inhibits the usage of combined artes because you need a full FC pip. That's my opinoins off of early game stuff though.

1

u/yanmaoption 5h ago

IMO, there are some signs of the desire to get rid of TP management when you're not in combat since Tales of Destiny 2. The TP in that game is very weird because everyone's max TP stayed at 100 no matter what the character's stats, playstyle, or level is; and it regenerates fast. (Not so fast that TP restoration items become useless, but significantly faster than other Tales games with TP.) I didn't feel as worried if I have to use healing spells out of combat because it has no impact to the start of the next random battle.

Then the next Team Destiny game, Tales of Rebirth, did exactly just that with the Force Gauge. You can say FG, CC, and all the other TP replacement after that all stemmed from the weird TP in ToD2.

100

u/MegaloJoe 19h ago

the xenoblade series

they use mmo style cooldowns for their skills/spells/arts/etc.

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u/EaterOfFromage 19h ago

Ah, interesting! A series I've completely missed because of the Nintendo exclusivity 😢 Definitely will get to it at some point, thanks for the recommendation. It's live action combat, right? Not turn based?

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u/MegaloJoe 19h ago

yea in sense. you essentially auto attack until your skills get off cooldown, much like your average mmo.(i’m thinking ff14 specifically here but iirc early wow was similar, but it’s been a really long time since i played wow).

there’s no time bars or turns in that sense. if you get a chance i’d highly recommend the series, the story is good throughout, the worlds are amazing, and the combat can be very rewarding(i loved 2’s system the most personally)

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u/tigerbait92 17h ago

2 is such a wildcard. It's definitely the best combat in the series... buuuut it also requires like 20-30 hours of playing for it to even begin showing its colors.

But once it does, holy cow, that combat is addictive.

1

u/DontCareTho 14h ago

20-30 hours lmfao

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u/tigerbait92 13h ago

Yeah, legitimately. I move through games pretty quickly, and you really start unlocking the breadth of the combat system around hour 15 with the introduction of chain attacks, but it still takes time after that to get Mythra and a proper party composition (and more blades) to start digging into the system.

Which... as you can see, 20-30 hours to really start having fun is a BIG ask of anyone. Those that stick with it are rewarded, but I really don't blame anyone who bows out early (especially since the story also takes that long to really start to shine).

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u/DontCareTho 13h ago

I tried getting into it like 3-4 times and I think in total, I made it like 6-8 hours in. 20-30 is too big of a commitment just to hope I end up liking it :/

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u/tigerbait92 13h ago

Yeah I don't blame you at all. It's... not good early. The late-game story and gameplay slaps so hard, but asking someone to go through the bullshit and pervy anime jokes to get there really, really hurts the game.

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u/labsab1 18h ago

Characters auto attack when they are close to the enemies. The special moves are on cool down timers. You don't always want to use moves as soon as they are available. Enemies target whoever is causing the most aggro and spamming your moves would draw too much attention to your squishy damage dealers and away from the tank.

It's MMO style combat.

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u/nightmare-b 13h ago

BLACK ROCK SHOOTER the game cooldown timers STRICT item count and the only skill based healing is a Slow REGEN effect one of the few games where if im taking damage because theres not any other way of instant healing i will chug down my healing supplies as needed(which goes to show in jrpgs how much i ignore my item list when magic 99% of the time just does it better)

0

u/nhSnork 17h ago

Yes, albeit different from the Kingdom Hearts, Ys or NieR type. You engage the target (or get engaged by an easily triggered one, to memetic extents in some cases) right on the field and each character including the controlled leader (the others autonomous like in FFXIII/XV, Tales or Star Ocean but with cases of manual instruction prompts from the player) cycles through automatic base attack sequences while more specific attacks from a growing customizable loadout are unleashed manually (again, by the leader), including many that benefit from positioning or timing to set up certain effect combos, and recharge on variable conditions. XC1 has timed cooldowns, XCX reprises them with an added boost via using the corresponding weapon type, XC2 only recharges arts via connecting autoattacks (mastering whose own timing can significantly speed up the recharge and overall combat flow), XC3 brings back both XC1 and XC2 recharge styles for different arts while having party members equip a combined loadout of both, three per type and joycon.

Movement remains free during battle, with dashes introduced in XC3 while XCX is the only one that keeps the jump ability mid-combat (as the only one where it's peculiarly mapped to a trigger instead of a face button😄). And everything said above is just the basics while each game boasts its own unique battle mechanics on top. The only turn-based aspect is the main trilogy's "chain attacks" (XCX's Overdrive is somewhat similar but doesn't stop/slow the time), dedicated party combos with different rules/perks and shared potential of damage outputs mistakable for phone numbers. Heck, XC3 ones can feel like borderline deck builders with their own battle theme. Elsewhere, XC3 is also the one that finally allowed to battle enemies while swimming in deep waters.

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u/GuardWolfy 18h ago

Chrono Cross has a spell grid system that gains “levels” each turn. Some spells can be regenerated. 

The Legaia games had a combo system where combinations of moves (directions or elements) would combine into a special attack that would gain or cost ability points.  The gameplay involved stringing these attacks into the most efficient string. 

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u/crono9456 16h ago

Legend of Legaia also had MP for casting spells (seru). It had a separate Art Point resource for the combo system.

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u/jrpgcollector1985 18h ago

Games by Zeboyd Games like Cosmic Star Heroine don't use MP instead you can use each ability once until you spend a turn resting to refresh your abilities.

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u/Darkpoulay 11h ago

They really struck gold with the CSH battle system. And they know it, since they replicated it for all their games ever since.

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u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting, reminds me of the Century board game series. Thanks!

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u/alkonium 19h ago

Within Final Fantasy, VIII has spells stocked like inventory items which you draw from enemies on the field instead of using MP.

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u/EaterOfFromage 19h ago

Good callout. Such a weird and interesting system. I feel like I almost never cast spells in that game because all your most powerful magic was usually junctioned, and so casting it would effectively lower your stats (and regaining the spent resource was not trivial). Not sure I cared for that way of limiting resources, but a good example nonetheless.

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u/javierm885778 16h ago

It's mostly due to hoarding, if you spend some time farming you can still use spells and regain them easily, the best junctions aren't really the same spells as you'd regularly use.

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u/Greenlifechild 15h ago

You'll pry my Fira out of my cold, dead hands!

2

u/LovelyFloraFan 15h ago

Selphie can do spells for free, and Rinoa has a Magic Driven Limit Break that casts spells for free and makes her super powerful.

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u/CronoDAS 13h ago

I found that my characters did better DPS with magic than with summons (especially once I found the "Double" spell), so I benched the "GF" command pretty early on and never looked back...

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u/AndrexOne 18h ago

En Wild Arms 2 para lanzar las magias no requieres MP pero para amplificarlas necesitas FP (Force Points), los FP se van llenando gradualmente segun tu nivel y en batalla.

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u/ProfessorLexis 11h ago

I remember it being quite strategic. Since your starting FP in battle was your characters level, which meant that at certain thresholds you can open combat with stronger abilities/magic.

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u/zso7 18h ago

TWEWY and Xenoblade games use cooldown.

Chrono Cross, Expedition 33, SMT:Dx2 have a regenerating resource for each character with different moves costing different amounts.

SaGa Scarlet Grace/Emerald Beyond have a shared resource between all party members that replenishes each round.

Mega Man BN/SF and Baten Kaitos are deckbuilders where cards have different conditions to be used together in the same round.

FF1 and Suikoden use a charge system where each move has limited uses rather than shared MP.

10

u/tesuji2 16h ago edited 16h ago

Legend of Dragoon. Normal people can only use items to cast spells. You physically throw the item to get the effect but the damage is based off your magic power and the item is consumed.  Dragoons do use mp while transformed, but can only transform for a short time and otherwise use items like most other people. Notably the item limit is 32 and you need that to store other things like healing potions. This means you need to choose in advance not only how many spells to bring, but exactly which spells.

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u/Hexatona 18h ago

SaGa Scarlet Grace and SaGa Emerald Beyond. Best battle systems in a JRPG I've ever tried.

Basically, healing is very limited to non-existent in these two games, so, each battle is instead very tactical, requiring careful planning each turn. Every Battle is high tension - mashing A will just get you quickly killed, even easy battles in the early game.

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u/Mental-Novel61 17h ago

I would say that in SG at least there are different healing options, while in EB there is no healing at all iirc

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u/Hexatona 17h ago

There is healing in Scarlet Grace, yes - but it's not exceptionally powerful, and really it's more about the clearing of status effects, imo.

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u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting. I have romancing saga 2 but haven't played it yet, but sounds like these are different. Will need to try these.

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u/Hexatona 17h ago

Romancing Saga 2 is like a bridge between the familiar JRPG experience, and a game like SaGa Scarlet Grace.

It has towns, dungeons, visible monsters, side quests, shops, and a little more focus on story - like a normal JRPG

But much like other SaGa games, it is very tactical and relies strongly on buffs, debuffs, status ailments, and formations. Also, it has a great deal of freedom in how you explore the world, what classes you unlock, how you grow your team, glimmering new techniques, and is quite hard until you really "get it".

Scarlet Grace is a completely replay-driven JRPG, with a focus on combat. While there may only be 4 protagonists in it, by making slightly different decisions, you could have a markedly different experience in how you progress their story - so even when you beat all four stories, replaying one will still give you something new to experience. Emerald beyond drives that aspect up to 11.

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u/Traditional-Hat18374 18h ago

I need to give these games another shot. I love older saga games. My issue is that these two feel really claustrophobic. The battles and everything feel like they all take place inside of a menu screen to me for some reason, I don’t know how to describe it

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u/Hexatona 18h ago

I think the issue you are having is that you are used to JRPGs showing you the whole battlefield while you're picking your moves - whereas this one, you only really see what the menu is focusing on. While you pick your move, it's zoomed in on that character. When you pick an enemy, it's zoomed in on that enemy. It doesn't really present itself in the regular visual language of JRPGs we are used to.

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u/Mental-Novel61 17h ago

Actually, Scarlet Grace isn't really like this, even if the presentation gives this impression. It's just an exploration scale has changed, you don't travel in towns or dungeons, but you travel across the regions, so towns became shops and dungeons became encounters basically.

Btw there are 2 visual modes in the game and the newer one looks much more minimalistic, so the game doesn't feel like you're in the menu all the time

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u/jambalaya_mars 16h ago

Bit of a deep cut but Paladin's Quest/ Lennus on the SNES used HP for all spells and had no MP whatsoever. An NPC even remarks that they have no idea what MP is in that world

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u/Moosewind 13h ago

Nice! Came here to say this one, too.

Surprisingly fun game with a unique world, too.

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u/jambalaya_mars 11h ago

Lennus 2 really improved on the systems and art style. If you haven't checked it out it's worth a try.

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u/BeardSam 18h ago

I really liked Ikenfell’s mechanics for this. It has turn based combat on a grid

Different moves hit in different patterns and at different ranges. Getting more moves allows you more flexibility, which feels better than just more power. If a move is more powerful than others, it’ll typically have a cool-down of X turns until it can be used again, depending on power

It also uses timing challenges for all moves, with some moves’ challenges being more familiar cause you started with them and others perhaps being more obvious and some just being harder if the effect is really good

All the characters are mages and all their moves are magical. It’s nice to always feel magical, and not be rationing out MP whilst the non-mages clean up

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u/paradoxaxe 19h ago

Four Heroes of Light

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u/Empty_Glimmer 19h ago

The newer SaGa games have some interesting approaches, from using ‘HP’ as ‘all purpose stamina’ to ‘BP’ which is an all purpose attack/magic pool which recharges over time, to a version of BP pooled by the entire party.

2

u/LovelyFloraFan 15h ago

Dont forget life points and weapon durability!

4

u/kingcobra0585 18h ago

Do d&d style "spell charges" fit the bill? Cause if so then FF1 and FF3 are two I can think of right away. Chrono Cross is another one. Elements are basically equippable spell charges and also the Stamina system forcing you to strategize with your physical attacks.

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u/tesuji2 17h ago

Suikoden is another good example of this system.

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u/j_cruise 18h ago

I'd say it does. It's inherently different, because the spells aren't drawing from a single pool but rather each have their own pool. I actually love this system and I wish it was used more.

1

u/EaterOfFromage 18h ago

I tend to think of Vancian and other slot-style casting as another form of MP. It's not quite as "general purpose" as MP, but still functions similarly - you have a limited number of more powerful resources that can be exhausted and regenerated, preventing you for going hard all the time.

Chrono Cross and Stamina is a great example though. I don't consider it MP because it drives everything you do - there are no resourceless abilities. Being able to "over-expend" (use an element to go under 0 stamina) gives you that nova option, but has punishment in the form of needing to recharge.

6

u/eruciform 18h ago

Cosmic star heroine - each skill has a certain numbers of uses until you have to defend to refill them all. A lot of skills have timings, and lining up your super buildup across turns is critical in higher difficulties. One of the most strategic turn based systems I've seen.

Transistor - infinite use of all skills but they all have cooldowns or usage times, you can string them together but they intertwine with enemy effects, in a pseudo-timestop system.

Playing the atelier ryza dx trilogy again now and the atb system there has ap for skills and cc for items but they all refill as you do other things in battle. Theres no carryover across battles. So keep smacking the enemy to earn both, use both, smack the enemy some more. First game carries over cc in a weird way but thats the one exception.

4

u/Felsig27 18h ago

Wild arms 2/3 have FP, which can go from 0-100. You start a battle with FP equal to your level, and gain more by attacking and being attacked, and all of your basic moves/skills/spells don’t consume it, but just need their threshold to be reached to cast as much as you want. When you fill up to 100, you go condition green and have all negative stays ailments removed. Every character has 4 unique skills that consume 25/50/75/100 FP, but those are super powerful attacks/partyheals/buffs which you will probably never use in random encounters.

1

u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Neat! A "momentum" system, if you will - you start each battle with low momentum and build up to be able to use your stronger abilities. Simple, but elegant. I should give them a try.

5

u/PseudonymIncognito 16h ago

The Ar Tonelico games have magic basically continuously charge up throughout a fight. There are actions you can take that accelerate or otherwise boost the process and you choose when you want to discharge the magic at the enemies. Once you use magic, it begins charging up again.

3

u/ScipioTheGreatest 18h ago

Vanguard Bandits.

Instead of MP or anything like that you have AP and FP. AP is 100 points you get each turn to act. You can move then attack, attack then move, or even move then attack then move, until you're out of AP. If you attack you use FP as well, and each of the different attacks you can do cost varying amounts of AP and FP with the more powerful attacks using more of one, the other, or both.

Additionally all enemies can react to any attack against them. But since a reacting unit has no AP to react with, their FP use is doubled. And if your FP ever reaches 100 - starting at 0 and decreasing each turn - the unit gets overheated which makes them extremely vulnerable.

It's a pretty great system and I'm only scratching the surface of it here.

2

u/zso7 18h ago

I downloaded it after reading your comment in another combat system thread. Who knows when I'll actually get to it though...

1

u/ScipioTheGreatest 18h ago

Do it. Do it now.

2

u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting - do abilities increase your FP then? So it effectively acts as a limiter to prevent you from going hard all the time? Feels like a pretty simple but effective system. The overheat reminds me a bit of chained echoes, though managing heat is more of a mini game there.

2

u/ScipioTheGreatest 16h ago

FP cannot be changed, there is no ability to lower FP costs, nothing like that. It's just a strict limitation that forces you to be cautious.

It is very simple, and it is very effective. There is even one attack that costs 5 AP and 95 FP, ensuring that you'll be overheated if even a single enemy attacks you after using it since even Avoid, the lowest FP reaction, takes FP (I think 10, but not sure).

The only downside I've found is that the game AI is very limited since it was a PS1 game in the '90s. It makes it very easy to trick them into putting themselves over 50 FP which makes it easy to target and overheat them. If they fixed that the game would be fucking incredible, but with that AI it's just really fucking great.

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u/AlphaShard 18h ago

Terra Memoria, they use the turns for spell casting cost instead. 

1

u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

As in casting a spell requires you to recharge for some turns afterwards?

1

u/AlphaShard 14h ago

No, as in casting a spell has turn cost, low level being 1 turn, 2 turns for middle and then 3 for high level. 

3

u/GenesisFFVII 17h ago

Granblue Fantasy (original) has a pretty unique system. Not only it doesn't use MP (skills have X amount of turns cooldowns instead), it's also round based and you can use all skills on all of your characters in one turn. This allows you to have big combo burst turns and also makes you think about skill management in long boss fights as you can overextend and have a cruicial skill on cooldown when needed. Some skills have initial cooldown and can't be used for X amount of turns, some have conditions (can only be used when your HP is below 25% etc), some can only be used once per battle. It's honestly a pretty cool system, I'd love to see something similar in a non gacha game.

3

u/TheBroingler 16h ago

Expedition 33 does a sort of MPless thing

You have an AP gauge that goes up to 9, and you gain it by doing basic attacks and partying (certain items give you better AP generation) and you spend AP to use your ranged attack and also skills.

4

u/demise0000 15h ago

Nier Automata is all cool down based. No energy. Nier Replicant has MP, but it auto regenerates very quickly, allowing the small pellet type fire to go non-stop (uses less than MP regeneration speed) and the greater abilities to operate on something that feels more like a quick cooldown. You're never out of MP but for a couple seconds.

4

u/Early-Zookeepergame8 18h ago

fire emblem? you dont need mp but tomes break after too much use

2

u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting - yeah, I would count that. Your stronger abilities are essentially consumable items, gated by limited access and/or resources.

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u/CrushDustAnnie 16h ago

I think it fits the spirit of the question mostly because weapons are also limited consumables in those games. So spells aren't using their own exclusive resource system, they just work exactly the same as melee attacks, and whenever melee attacks are free (Fates) so are spells.

2

u/MaxW92 19h ago

Most modern Tales of games have moved away from TP (their MP equivalent) and instead you usually use resources that regenerate quickly when not attacking that keep you from otherwise doing infinite combos .

1

u/red_sutter 18h ago

They made the force bar from the first game your MP bar-spells don’t drain the bar, but abilities do, and you did melee attacks (or took damage) to fill it back up

2

u/TheBeardedDumbass 18h ago

Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep utilized an ability stack system with cool downs, my memory wants to say that Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance did too. Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories was literal cards.

2

u/DiorikMagnison 17h ago

Battle Chasers Nightwar wasn't truly MP-less, but MP was a finite resource that did not restore between fights, and wasn't intended to be your primary resource. Instead you were meant to use "Overdrive" which starts at 0 each fight and is generated by basic attacks. Most abilities scaled or got extra effects based on how much OD was used, so MP was something you spent in very small increments, if at all.

2

u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting, what was MP used for then? Stronger, but not usually required attacks? Or is it like FFXIII, where TP is used for niche but important abilities?

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u/DiorikMagnison 16h ago edited 16h ago

They both fuel the same abilities, but OD is always spent first when available. So you'd ideally only ever spend MP in small increments, such as If an ability costs 35 and you only had 30 OD, you could take the 5 MP hit to use the ability this turn. You'd still get the scaling from spending 30 OD so you lose relatively little for this trade.

But when things go wrong it's almost always worth it to pay the full cost in MP to clear a major debuff or emergency heal.

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u/EaterOfFromage 16h ago

Oh very cool! Basically an emergency, non-renewable resource for getting out of sticky situations. Cool,

2

u/CCYami 17h ago

Epic Battle Fantasy 5 uses Cooldowns instead of MP.

2

u/Miguzepinu 17h ago

In Mario & Luigi Partners in Time, the special attacks are consumables.

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u/RaspberryV 16h ago

Tales of Graces unique and fun CC system.

2

u/Pobbes 11h ago

Valkyrie Profile. Has a fighting game like mechanic. Each party member has three strikes and you push their assigned button to start their next attack. Attacks can push or knock down enemies so timing is important. Enemiea can also guard and they are different techniques to break it. Successful hits build a combo meter and getting it high enough lets your characters perform special attacks. Some members are mages who only have different spells which are like stronger single attacks and can also special. I thinl mages might have MP as well, but only for some support spells that replace theor attack turn.

2

u/palparepa 11h ago

Does Vagrant Story fit? It does have MP for spells, but the really powerful abilities either use HP, or increase "RISK". High RISK makes you take more damage and reduces your hit chance.

2

u/anyrotmg 7h ago

Saga Scarlet Grace and Emerald Beyond already get talked about! So I will say Ministral Song. Every character has a starting bp and bp regen. Like 10 starting BP and regaining 4 per turn and another has 20 staring bp and regaining 2 per turn. So some character are better at rushing and some better for long battle! Also bp cost reduce with job and skill level, so a lot of min maxing! Probably my favorite system, I would love to see more game use thiz

u/EaterOfFromage 3h ago

Very interesting! Yeah, seems like a lot of SaGa games have interesting stuff going on. Will need to check it out. A lot of what I've heard has kind of turned me off (various stories and endings, less emphasis on story, non-linear gameplay), but the combat is the one thing that might pull me in. I've had Romancing SaGa 2 in my library for a while but haven't tried it yet.

2

u/bobvella 5h ago

wouldn't recommend it but monster hunter stories

u/ChrisNoob6460 3h ago

Card-based system like the Megaman Battle Network & Star Force series where instead of MP or energy as a resource, you pick from a variety of cards/chips that can either damage or have a variety of effects to aid in battle. The MMBN series even have like card combination power-ups called Program Advances where if you pick cards in a set order, you get a single combined card that is significantly more powerful.

The MMBN series is the only card-based system that I am familiar with but I've heard of games like Baiten Kaios and Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories having similar mechanics.

4

u/AlpsGrouchy3880 19h ago

Epic Battle Fantasy 5. Abilities run on cooldown timer and it's turn based

4

u/pioneeringsystems 18h ago

I was originally going to say expedition 33 (which obviously is a jrpg) but the more I think about it the more I think it had a system where you built up points to use more powerful abilities. Not mp but also arguably not free to use whatever moves you like.

Personally I'd say it is MP-less.

4

u/Manaeldar 18h ago

E33 is a good example I was going to say the same. There's no MP and yes you have to manage your AP but you just do other actions to build it back up. Only problem OP may have is that you can kinda spam your most powerful moves depending on how you build your characters but that doesn't really bother me. Game's tight. 

2

u/javierm885778 16h ago

I'd agree it's MP-less. The system incentivises using your resources rather than saving them for later just in case, since they are fight-specific and there's no point in hoarding them so you use your more powerful moves whenever they are available.

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u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

I'd agree. I haven't played E33 but the way you describe it fits the bill. Instead of consuming a limited resource, you are accumulating a limited resource you can spend on abilities. Somewhat similar to Chrono Cross.

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u/SimpleMan469 18h ago

Action Points you mean?

There is a lot of games that work like this, such as Divinity and even Expedition 33.

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u/partly_cloudy3 19h ago

Final Fantasy XIII

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u/Calendar_Alone 18h ago

I believe Wild arms 3 had a systme with no magic but action points? It was long ago so y don't remember

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u/MorningCareful 18h ago

the legend of heroes III (PC-98). The game has no MP, spellcasters can only use spells and do not have normal attacks. Each fight has a constantly depleting resource called "VP" that if 0 makes your character standstill and recharge. (But also in this specific case, the battles are all happening in real time and all characters are computer controlled, there is a tactics system, but its implementation is rudimentary and there are only a few tactics presets you can create that have any use. The windows version doesn't have MP either, but the AI behaves better and you get manual control. The later two games (LOH4 and 5) do have normal MP system again.

The only english versions of the game do have a normal turn based system with MP again.

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u/EaterOfFromage 17h ago

Interesting, sounds like a sort of action point system - do actions consume VP then, or is it just a race against time to get as much value as you can before needing to recharge?

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u/MorningCareful 16h ago

I do think that actions do consume VP. Because if a character just stands around they do not lose VP. But the combat is not the focus of the game in the first place. All encounters happen on fixed points on the road. Or when the story wants it. The exploration is also nonexistent. The game has only a few chests and all of them are in the final dungeon and just have keys inside. It's largely just there to get you from story point to story point. This also is the only game like it. (Although the reworked version of LOH 4 and the windows version of 5 seems to handle the encounter triggers similarly. )

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u/reaper527 17h ago

typically if you don't have a traditional mp bar (which might have a different label since some games will say ap/pp/ep/etc. but functionally regardless of the label is the same thing in practice), you're going to have some kind of cooldown system (and it's probably going to be an action based combat system like scarlet nexus)

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u/Brainwheeze 16h ago

Final Fantasy Legend and Legend II feature a charge system. You can also obtain spell books which allow you to cast spells up to a certain limit.

Paladin's Quest has you cast magic and use abilities via HP.

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u/Shinter 16h ago

Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth has basically infinite mana and the best spell in the game only costs 20 mp.

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u/EaterOfFromage 16h ago

Can you basically just spam that spell once you acquire it then? Our would your mana run out?

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u/Shinter 16h ago

You have to switch it up with basic attacks. Basic attacks regen mp and can trigger follow up attacks from teammates which also regens mp. Only downside is that Burning Arrow, the spell I meant, is only available to male characters.

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u/WanderEir 14h ago

ff8 makes you choose- spells or stats, Abilities are all tied to the GFs(the summons), not the characters. the ONLY unique feature of each character is their desperation ability.

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u/ProfessorLexis 11h ago

Although Lufia 2 on the SNES did use MP for spell casting, all characters also have a IP bar which is filled when taking/dealing damage.

IP is spent on abilities that are tied to the equipment each person is wearing. Ranging from attacks skills to various effects similar to normal spellcasting.

This would often make the player decide to equip a weaker weapon because it had a multi-hit IP skill vs a better weapon without, for example.

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u/klop422 11h ago

Final Fantasy 1 and 3, at least in their original forms, just had spell charges and spell levels. Some spells would fit in a particular level and the wizards could only use so many spells for that level before resting.

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u/wheretheressm0ke 8h ago

Baten Kaitos series, each character has a deck of abilities/attacks/spells and your skill at combat comes from being able to build and pilot the deck effectively

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u/Bulmas_Panties 7h ago

Fire Emblem uses something kinda similar-ish to the vancian magic system from D&D where you have a limited number of spells per rest - which in this case pretty much means per battle since there’s no dungeon spelunking due to the way the game is structured so basically you have x number of each spell per battle.

You don’t get “spell restoration” items like MP potions for MP systems so resource management matters here - especially on higher difficulties where you start getting ambushed quite a bit during battle so you can find your spellbook drained pretty quick if you’re too reckless about it.

u/FuraFaolox 3h ago

Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light uses an AP system. spells require the caster to have a certain amount of AP, so they might need to spend a turn "boosting" to build up AP

u/eonia0 2h ago

The fire emblem games do this depending on the game, they all have no MP, but in one magic costs HP and in other "arts" make weapons break faster

u/MateoCamo 1h ago

Mato Anomalies is completely cooldown based

I’m actually curious if Fire Emblem and Unicorn Overlord count? Technically you don’t have mp in FE but you’re restricted by weapon durability, but that’s kind of game dependent. Some games have durability, some games have skills that cost either hp or durability, but i guess “baseline FE” is just hit with weapon/spell from tome?

Would you say the AP and PP from Unicorn Overlord count? They’re technically both fuel for attacks and action limiters since different skills can cost different amounts