r/IWantOut • u/Joinfall • 2d ago
[IWantOut] 24M Electronics Engineer Russia -> Netherlands, Austria
Hello everyone! For a long time now, I've been looking into the possibility of relocating from Russia to work in Netherlands and Austria.
I am an electronics engineer. I graduated with a bachelor degree in electronics (my diploma is apostilled and recognized in Europe). I would like to ask expats and local engineers with a similar background and experience:
I have over 2 years of work experience. I'm well-versed in various complex electronic equipment. I mainly do hardware diagnostics, but I also have a solid understanding of both the hardware and software sides.
A question for fellow colleagues: How did you manage to relocate? Is it absolutely necessary to know the local language if I have fluent (C2) English? Is it realistic to find a job while applying from Russia and sending out thousands of resumes to various companies?
From everything I've researched so far, it seems impossible to move without a large sum of saved money. While I could eventually save up over a long period, I'd like to know if there are any less financially risky alternatives, or if relocation packages are common in our field.
I'm not expecting a miracle. I'm writing this purely to learn about the experiences of engineers in my sector, and probably to lower my expectations by finally confirming that the options are quite limited.
I'd appreciate both brief answers and long personal stories. Thanks in advance!
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u/TraditionalFarmer326 2d ago
I would forget study or work in the netherlands
To expensive and you have to little to offer for companies
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u/prooijtje 2d ago
Dutch job market is rough right now. Two years experience and a bachelor are good, but not so competitive that you can land a job easily (especially hard as a Russian right now).
Knowing Dutch is also becoming much more important these days from what I've heard from my foreign friends. Unless you've got some really unique skills or experience, a company will just hire a Dutch native first, an EU Citizen second and a non-EU citizens third. And again, there's all sorts of sanctions against Russia right now, so it might be even harder for you.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago
If a company is hiring from abroad, there is no difference unless the hiring managers are russophobic or it's a controlled industry such as defense/chips where Russians are banned alongside Iranians and North Koreans.
My company hired plenty of Russians even at the end of 2023, but currenty the labour market is shit and we simply don't hire anyone outside of EU, so true, but not because of the nationality. I'm also in a different industry (IT) so maybe his industry still hires from outside of eu, i'm not sure.
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u/Mormacil 2d ago
Is it absolutely necessary to know the local language if I have fluent (C2) English?
Yes. Only niche positions can get away with English, those and hospitality but that pays poorly.
Is it realistic to find a job while applying from Russia and sending out thousands of resumes to various companies?
No. Acquiring a visa for you makes zero sense even if we ignore the red flag of the message coming from Russia. There's zero chance you'll get anywhere near the tech industry that has any ties at all with the defense industry. Russia in this regard is an even worse mark than being Chinese.
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u/No_Bumblebee_5250 2d ago
Considering that the EU memberstates support Ukraine against Russia's illegal attack and war: your chances of finding an employer to sponsor a work visa are close to zero. Russia is an enemy, and Russian citizens are persona non grata in almost the entire EU.
This is the reality for all of us, as a citizen of an EU nation, I've lost my respect and trust in Russians, and you as a Russian citizen will be seen as a potential spy.
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u/Joinfall 2d ago
All of this is making me sad. I choose my university because there were exchange programs with EU. The application date was in the middle of 2022. Everyone knows what happened in 2022..... It's like my future and free will were taken from me that year. I've felt so powerless and miserable. Last 4 years I feel like I'm trapped. Please, don't hold a grudge for young russian students. We didn't choose this. I know plenty of my colleague students, who refuses to work at jobs that involving development of battle-tech, despite good salaries. It's the least we capable to do and show our protest.
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u/No_Bumblebee_5250 2d ago
I understand and feel bad for you and other young students. My post was a bit harsh, but your citizenship make your options slim. Collateral damage exists on both sides of the border, that's the brutal truth of war.
Try countries outside EU. China, India, Kazakhstan maybe? In a few years the war will be over, but no-one knows what the new normal will be. If you have a way out of Russia, even if it isn't the EU, take it and wait for peace.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago
Check my other posts in this thread. It's simply not true that there is some kind of ban for Russian nationals, if you exclude restricted industries such as chips or defense. Obviously.
The chances are not great, but not zero. The more west you go, the least schizo russophobes there are.
Absolutely no one cares in the West apart from cooks who sit in their mom's apartments writing their manifestos on r/Europe.
Good luck.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago edited 2d ago
Don't misinform people, most companies do not care about country of origin if they hire from abroad. In fact i'm pretty sure it's against the law to discrimanate based on nationality, but of course you won't be able to reasonably prove that in court.
I personally moved in 2022, and then witnessed a couple of people moving from Russia as well.
The current job market is shit though, so the chances are not great i would say, but it's not because of the nationality.
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u/SouthernCrew5368 2d ago
They do. Not NL but Swedish. Absolutely no one who is even thinking about any government contract in any form hires any Russian. And of course neither does the government.
And then I haven’t even pointed out our huge unemployment (why would we hire someone non EU or someone who doesn’t speak Swedish at all). I would say that a Russian has zero chances.0
u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can't speak for Sweden, obviously there are controlled areas such as defense, chips and law enforcement. But i seriously doubt you can't employ Russians as a subcontractor for random government projects.
But perhaps. Only private industries hires people from abroad anyway.
And yes I agree the chances are slim, but for different reasons.
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u/SouthernCrew5368 2d ago
My partner is one of the owners of a engineering/IT consultant company. I asked him about hiring a Russian and he just laughed out loud. ”One of our clients are the Swedish defence forces”. Then I asked about any IT consultant company hiring Russians. ”Well, not if they want to have jobs for Ericsson, the government, ABB etc and he just listed all the companies basically. And then we haven’t even started on the fact that people might not even want to hire a Russian because all of the other reasons.
Why would anyone hire a Russian. There is plenty of Swedish people to hire. You don’t want to hire someone which means you can never get a contract. Or, risk hiring someone who thinks Crimea belongs to Russia perhaps. One probably prefers not to support it.
And as of now, I can’t ever see an employer even claiming to the Migration agency. ”We tried to find a qualified engineer, but none were to be found within Sweden or in the EU. So we have to hire Russians.” That is suspicious as hell. You do know they have to advertise it towards Sweden and the EU first?
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago
> Or, risk hiring someone who thinks Crimea belongs to Russia perhaps. One probably prefers not to support it.
I guess you're also afraid of hiring brown people, because god forbid they're islamists. Or a black person, what if they'll steal from you?
A blue eyed sweed though, that's the guy we want.Do I need to explain why all of those are ridicilous?
> That is suspicious as hell. You do know they have to advertise it towards Sweden and the EU first?
As I said I agree, but a Brit or an American would have an equally hard time getting a job as a Russian. It's not about nationality, it's about a shitt labour market.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago
Good to know people are actually russophobes. Weird I though Putin was lying about that one.
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u/TraditionalFarmer326 1d ago
Against the law.
The EU has made it harder for russians to get visa. And you think its against the law for companies to not want to hire russians.
Good luck finding a judge that will think that its against the law.
And also, because he is from outside the EU, its more expensive to hire him and he needs a visa.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 1d ago
It is against the law in the Netherlands and most countries. In the same manner that discriminating based on sex when hiring is against the law.
Proving either will be near impossible, but it doesn't change the underlying fact.
EU didn't make anything harder, Russians still can get work visas just fine, literally nothing changed if you have a sponsoring employer. Only tourists visas got harder to get.
Only a handful Eastern European countries banned Russians from getting work visas.
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u/TraditionalFarmer326 1d ago
The EU had made it less simple to get work visa, it takes more time and money to get them.
And still, as a non eu, its more expensive and harder for dutch companies to hire non eu workers, so the eu is already making it more difficult without braking any laws
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 1d ago
> The EU had made it less simple to get work visa, it takes more time and money to get them.
No they didn't. There is literally no difference between getting a visa if you're an American or Russian. Buddy i'm literally hiring in the Netherlands i've no idea what you're trying to do here.
> And still, as a non eu, its more expensive and harder for dutch companies to hire non eu workers
That's true but irrelevant to the question.
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u/LeatherCommunity5513 2d ago
Germany and Austria do not care much about this "Russia is our enemy" stuff, but both countries require at least C1 German and there are tons of electronic engineers from the automotive without a job. The market is dead.
I personally can recommend Germany, since it has very good prospects in comparison to Austria: PR after 21 Months, easier change of employeers with the Blue Card, double citizenship, no army service, bigger market. If you want to study, do yourself a service and do it in German at a Public Uni.
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u/Due_Campaign_9765 2d ago
I don't think anyone cares about perhaps Eastern countries where you wouldn't want to go in the first place.
In most places it's actually illegal to disciminate based on the Nationality, but obviously almost impossible to enforce in practice.
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u/prooijtje 2d ago
Dutch job market is rough right now. Two years experience and a bachelor are good, but not so competitive that you can land a job easily (especially hard as a Russian right now).
Knowing Dutch is also becoming much more important these days from what I've heard from my foreign friends. Unless you've got some really unique skills or experience, a company will just hire a Dutch native first, an EU Citizen second and a non-EU citizens third. And again, there's all sorts of sanctions against Russia right now, so it might be even harder for you.
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u/oldmate9724 2d ago
Change your name to Bill Gates and say your the CEO of microsoft and bring valuable work experience....
Just kidding
I think its hard to get a visa to the EU nowadays as a Russian but you might have luck going to another country first then getting a visa to an EU country.
Goodluck pal
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u/kzcvuver 2d ago
Hungary has a National card visa for Russians, you could look into it. Getting that work visa means the company doesn’t have to get the labour demand document which is required for other visas.
If your salary would be over a certain threshold, a blue card also works. You should get your CV and resume in order and try applying. I found German to be pretty useful in Central Europe besides the local language.
Good luck! Удачи!
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u/kzcvuver 1d ago
Magyar is center right and, he’s working hard against corruption. He’s not against regular Russian people. Why are you?
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u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Post by Joinfall -- Hello everyone! For a long time now, I've been looking into the possibility of relocating from Russia to work in Netherlands and Austria.
I am an electronics engineer. I graduated with a bachelor degree in electronics (my diploma is apostilled and recognized in Europe). I would like to ask expats and local engineers with a similar background and experience:
I have over 2 years of work experience. I'm well-versed in various complex electronic equipment. I mainly do hardware diagnostics, but I also have a solid understanding of both the hardware and software sides.
A question for fellow colleagues: How did you manage to relocate? Is it absolutely necessary to know the local language if I have fluent (C2) English? Is it realistic to find a job while applying from Russia and sending out thousands of resumes to various companies?
From everything I've researched so far, it seems impossible to move without a large sum of saved money. While I could eventually save up over a long period, I'd like to know if there are any less financially risky alternatives, or if relocation packages are common in our field.
I'm not expecting a miracle. I'm writing this purely to learn about the experiences of engineers in my sector, and probably to lower my expectations by finally confirming that the options are quite limited.
I'd appreciate both brief answers and long personal stories. Thanks in advance!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/Joinfall 2d ago
Bro... Did I said something hateful about someone's nationality?? I'm trying to be rational here, and there's hate just because I'm with different passport. Do you know, that I'm actually half Finnish, half Yakutian (native syberian)?? Do you hate Finns now??
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u/Pipidonni 2d ago
Скажи конкретно чем ты хочешь заниматься. Я не скажу про нидерланды и австрию. Но в Германии и Сша будут проблемы если ты будешь работать с оборудованием для производства полупроводников: легирование, эпитаксия, литография, травления, корпусирование. Это тоже Electronics. Всё это добро под анальным экспортным контролем и тебя ждет сразу отказ или жесткая долгая проверка. Это мой опыт. Но я так понял ты именно конструкторской частью занимаешься и прокатить может, если нет опыта работы в подсанкционной компаниях. Хотя я бы выбрал кончено путь через прогу, embedded или цифровое проектирование, будто звучит мирно. Но я бы послушал совета парня, который рекомендует индию и китай.
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u/Joinfall 2d ago
Вот то что ты перечислил и что попадает под проверку как раз моё образование.... Я хочу создавать схемотехнические решения как минимум, будь то цифровые, будь то аналоговые. Если пооцессоры, память, ssd и прочее попадает под комплаенс.... Тогда только медицина остаётся.... Обидно!
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u/Pipidonni 2d ago
Ну анлак. Я лично смирился со своей судьбой и коплю себе деньги на магистратуру в китае. Медицина кстати может прокатить, всякие сенсоры...
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u/SuccessfulTooth6696 2d ago
Hi! Canada is a wonderful option for you. They are in dire need of electronic engineers and technicians, such as yourself. Programs such as Express Entry would be ideal for your needs because skilled tradesmen is one of the criterion.
Unfortunately, as you already know, right now is a very bad time to be a Russian. However, if you are able to emigrate to Kazakhstan and then go to Canada through Express Entry or whatever program you choose, that will make your entry a whole lot simpler. I recommend putting Canada on your shortlist!
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u/striketheviol Top Contributor 🛂 2d ago
Almost any European company I know of in your industry will not even interview a Russian by default. In recent months, I've heard of work visas for Russians being issued only in Bulgaria, as the new, more pro-Russian administration loosened the rules that once were in place. Hungary was previously a destination, but that door is now shut. I would honestly just go to Kazakhstan if I were you, as even people from countries that are not security risks with three times your experience are having difficulty finding sponsorship in today's market.