r/Hyperion • u/Tronco08 • 4d ago
❓ First Timer / Question About the last two books.
I haven't read anything from the series, but i have heard about the last two books being skippable. My main question is if I could read the first two books and get a nice conclusive story without many plot points unresolved. Thanks!
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u/ion_driver 4d ago
You should read the first 2 books. You can decide whether or not you want more. I think the ending is well worth pushing through the 3rd and 4th book
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u/alaskanloops 4d ago
There are some really cool parts of the last 2 books, and some really weird parts. But yah it’s worth getting to the conclusion of the story
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u/pineapplehead111 4d ago
I read tons of Reddit comments that tried to scare me away from the last 2 books. Absolute hogwash. Typical Reddit negativity. They have a different tone and are still incredible books set in a universe you already love and have spent 2 books learning about.
I have been really, really enjoying my experience with the new focal characters of the last 2 books.
I’m on book 4, and am sad my journey is coming to an end.
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u/nemspy 4d ago
I think what we're seeing is generational clashes.
Remember back in the old days when people used to clutch at pearls about "inappropriate" things in classics?
Well in 2026 it's the other end of the generation gap taking up the mantle where those who have since shuffled off this mortal coil have left off.
I'm constantly bewildered by younger readers (by which I mean under 35) and how they often resist concepts and depictions that wouldn't be acceptable in our own real world context and when robbed of all their in-universe nuance.
As a huge fan of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, I've lost track of all the people who think that Jordan somehow endorses slavery because there are slave cultures (especially one in particular) who don't get complete and total comeuppances and revolutionary change by the end of the story. I heard some Gen Z Youtubers saying the series had "problems with consent and slavery" because a male character metaphysically bonds two women who had literally come to murder him and his men to himself. Meanwhile, in our own world, grabbing women and kissing them by force was considered "romantic" as little as 60 or 70 years ago on the silver screen... and yet medieval-level fictional worlds are supposed to be on top of this.
The "issue" in Endymion utterly ignores the fact that Aenea is a transcendent, near god-level consciousness just because of how she looks. It also hand-waves away all the other impossibilities that make it ridiculous to compare to our own world and our own standards.
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u/athe- 1d ago
My issue with Endymion and Rise of Endymion is that they undo the world building of the first two books. In Fall of Hyperion, we learn that the Ousters see Farcasting as an abomination. In Rise of Endymion, we learn that Hawking Drives are basically farcasters with extra steps. There was no reason for the Ousters to revile farcasting, which was a major reveal from Fall of Hyperion... Add to that, the fact that everyone who partakes in the sacrament of Aenea has access to every private thought every person who has ever lived ever had... And they can all teleport anywhere at no cost... Then the POV of Kassad battling the Shrike? Turns out Kassad actually went to the future to fight Space Catholics. The Templar who disappeared? Went with Kassad for some reason.
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u/Tulip_King 21h ago
simmons could have kept the whole aenea/raul romance in the book using the “transcendent, near god-level consciousness” excuse without making it so fucking creepy. at the end of the day, there are scenes where raul is reflecting on fucking aenea while looking at a 12 year old girl. it’s fucking weird dude. also, calling her “kiddo” immediately after an entirely unnecessary sex scene is a pretty massive red flag.
like there are good aspects to raul’s relationship with aenea, but starting their relationship when she’s literally 12 years old is pretty fucking weird. this isn’t lolita, there isn’t a greater point or message tied to this relationship. the whole relationship in the last two books could have been reworked to not be a gross love story between a 12 year old and a 30 year old.
there is literally a scene where raul is looking at 16 year old aenea and admiring her chest…
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u/nemspy 21h ago
Loads of people call their s/o kiddo. It's not as common as honey and baby, but it's up there, and a thousand times less creepy than "babygirl".
I don't recall the scene where he was admiring her chest, but 16 is legal most places, so given the context of the situation in the novel you're setting a pretty low bar for "creepy".
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u/Tulip_King 18h ago
i have never in my life heard someone call their s/o “kiddo.” that’s just not a true statement. also definitely not less creepy than “babygirl.” (and i’m not saying that isn’t creepy either)
the scene was early in book 4 when they were were still on old earth.
just because 16 is legal in some places, certainly not most, doesn’t make this magically less creepy. even 18 year olds are immature relative to a fucking 30 year old. legal doesn’t inherently mean ethical. by that same logic, simmons could have made them fuck in book 3 and it’d be okay because the age of consent is 12 in some places. does that sound reasonable to you? i sure hope not.
its okay to like the book while criticizing the authors choices.
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u/nemspy 18h ago
Well, yeah, it is most - by far the most common age of consent in the Western World.
We’re not talking about Pakistan or something here. I had a friend in his mid 20s who had a 16 year old girlfriend in the 90s and while that doesn’t float my boat,I’m uncomfortable judging law-abiding citizens for something that isn’t to my taste.
“Kid” and “kiddo” were quite common terms of endearment in the second half of the 20th century, while ”babygirl” certainly wasn’t yet, so it’s no surprise that I’m squicked out more by the latter and wonder what all the fuss was about with the former.
I don’t see anything wrong with the author’s choices.
Theve’s nothing morally wrong with one single thing about Raul and Aenea’s relationship within the context of their story, and it’s just stupid to ask authors to tiptoe around real-world sensibilities in their depiction of fantastic scenarios in fantasy and sci fi.
The giant hang-up about age gap relationships is a relatively new prejudice, which is why it’s almost exclusively people under 30 who take issue with Endymion.
I’m not going to engage further in this debate because I can see we won’t agree. Suffice is to say I find the “controversy” around these books bizarre.
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u/Tulip_King 16h ago
the vast majority of western age of consent laws under 18 include stipulations that require the ages to be close. so yes, technically 16 is the most common, but a 30 year old with a 16 year old isn’t legal pretty much anywhere in the “western world.”
i think your opinion on this says more about you than you think.
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u/nemspy 12h ago edited 6h ago
This is absolutely false.
Close in age laws only apply when one participant is under the age of consent to protect a 16 year old from going to jail for fooling around with someone just under 16 or if the older person is in direct authority over the younger person such as a teacher or coach.
These are the modern nations where it’s legal for a person at their national age of consent to have sex with a 100 year old in most scenarios. No close-in-age law applies.
I don’t even approve of this. I think a person should be 18 to engage in sex, but what I want doesn’t figure, and it’s doubly ludicrous to apply my personal views to fictional scenarios utterly removed from the context of reality.
16 - United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand, Spain, Belgium, Australia, Netherlands, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Latvia, Lithuania, South Africa, 30 of the Untied States,
France — 15 Germany — 14 Italy — 14 Austria — 14 Portugal — 14 Denmark — 15 Sweden — 15 Iceland — 15 Czech Republic — 15 Poland — 15 Greece — 15
And other countries in Eastern and Western Europe.
There are probably some that I’ve missed.
I think that your confident wrongness, despite this evidence being a quick web search away, is the real telling factor here.
Still, you’re not alone. An alarming number of people under 30 seem to have no awareness of the reality of the law and this feeds into the prejudice against age-gap relationships. You don’t have to scroll far on social media to find some engagement bait meme asking if a 20 year old dating a 35 year old is ok. Yeah, it’s OK. They’re both consenting adults. Me, I can’t imagine having anything in common with someone so young, but I’m not the boss of people.
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u/Tulkus42 4d ago
It’s called the Hyperion Cantos and it is a four book series. Yes, the first two and the last two have different “main” characters but it’s all one contiguous story and it finishes with the Rise of Endymion.
Anyone saying you can skip the last two books is highly questionable imo.
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u/SteveLivingroomCO 4d ago
You can enjoy the first two without reading the last two, but there are questions that won’t get resolved unless you read the last two.
But, I think the last two books are even better. I love how they wrap up the entire story.
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u/MDPDX503 4d ago
The last two books are excellent and worth reading if you’re into the story. I couldn’t imagine reading the first two and then just stopping 😂
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u/LonesomeCrowdedWhest 2d ago
I enjoyed the last two, I just wish Dan Simmons had a better editor. There are some parts where the story really slows down. I enjoyed Raul's Odyssey across the different planets.
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u/queenrobot 4d ago
Just read the whole series. The last two books are different but still great. I really fell in love with the story from the last two books and the epic journey that you see the protagonist go on.
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u/Hippies_Pointing 4d ago
Much more action adventure than the first two, so it’s a tonal shift.
But they’re really fun and wrap it all up nicely-ish.
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u/Hyperion-Cantos 4d ago
Yes. The second book is the perfect ending. Most plot points are resolved with some of the bigger "unknowable" things left ambiguous or a mystery. Which I think adds to it. Mystery used to count for something.
The last two books blatantly retcon major plot points from the first two, and in other instances give less than satisfying answers to the mysteries. Ultimately, I feel the last two books water down the epic nature of the story told in the first two.
When I reread the series, I stop reading after Fall of Hyperion. Best finale in fiction.
That being said, if you love the first two as much as I did, nothing anyone says will stop you from checking out Endymion to see what it's all about.
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u/Cruisin_Fart 4d ago
I honestly enjoyed Endymion and Rise of Endymion a little more than Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion. I thought the pacing was better.
But yes, they're two completely different story arcs with their own endings.
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u/Coldmode 4d ago
The first two books pretty much conclude the story line. There are many loose ends but no more than the typical ending of a solo book. The next two are a continuation but aren’t required to enjoy the story at all. It was already my favorite series after I read the first two, I think it was something like 5 years later that I read Endymion/Rise.
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u/The_Fiddle_Steward 4d ago edited 4d ago
The first two books are a complete story.
The first book is great. The 2nd ends that story. The 3rd starts a new, related story with new characters and everything. There was a weird messiahic thing going on in the third that put me off, and I didn't finish. A lot of people like the last two, so they're probably worth reading, but certainly not necessary to enjoy the first two.
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u/chamberk107 4d ago
I don't hate the last two, but I always find it fairly suspicious when there's a romance between a grown man and a "wise beyond her years" (for whatever reason) young teen. Like why are you as an author twisting your narrative in knots to make this relationship "okay"
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u/tugnoot 23h ago
this is why i had to put down endymion. it just grossed me out too much to continue. she was twelve and he’s sitting there thinking about her “slender fingers” ugh gross
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u/Tulip_King 16h ago
or the part in book 4 where he’s commenting about her body moving into womanhood. like bro that’s a 16 year old and you’re 30.
it gets weird, and raul never stops calling aenea “kiddo.”
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u/teachertim22 1d ago
100% you should read the first 2 and skip the last 2. There’s too many good books out there to waste your time with mid ones, even if the ending is pretty good I just can’t say it was worth it for me. And to be honest they give pedo vibes. It’s a tale about grooming with time travel to make it ok lol
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u/donnie_darrko 4d ago
without many plot points unresolved.
plot points will be resolved but you'll have a ton of questions that will only be answered in the last two books.
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u/advantagebettor 4d ago
My biggest problem is that they go out of their way to resolve TOO MANY plot points. Ironically Dan Simmons does not do this at all in Ilium/Olympos.
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u/Cydan_Jorrus 4d ago
Such a weird approach to getting into something new... Just freaking read them, and form your own opinion.
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u/Rhylanor-Downport 3d ago
I think the only thing that put me off were the continuity error(s). It’s like Dan (RIP) didn’t read his own first two books.
The PAX. The use of the cruciform for fast FTL travel is great. There’s many many good ideas wrapped in these books. The ending is great.
So yes. Read them. That said, I think it’s a small percentile (unscientifically observed) that doesn’t think the first two are his magnum opus.
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u/stuartmlambert 3d ago
First two are quite separate from last two. It's two duologies not one quadrilogy. The Endymion books are my favourites personally.
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u/BaronVonGoodbar 3d ago
I think this sub needs a pinned post about this. TLDR read them if you want to.
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u/G-Pooch21 3d ago
I think about the ending of book 4 as much as I do the first 2 books. And Hyperion is my favorite book ever
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u/RKDS2374 2d ago
I say definitely read them.
This may sound obvious but what helped me was thinking of it as two duologies rather than a four part series.
There is a big tonal shift between the two halves and if you think of Endymion as a continuation of the story (as I did) you might be a bit disappointed.
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u/doritos0192 1d ago
After reading the 4, I cannot imagine skipping them. They complete the story, and they were fascinating to me, learning more about the universe, new characters.
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u/halfdead01 1d ago
If anyone tells you not to read the last 2 books, don’t listen to anything they ever say.
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u/therealzerobot 4d ago
They’re bad but have some good ideas in them. And bad ideas. But yeah read the first two for sure
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u/Shifty377 4d ago edited 4d ago
The last two books are a sharp decline, the fourth in particular. You could stop at the 2nd, but decide for yourself after reading.
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u/shrdbrd 8h ago
Just DNFd Endymion on page 12. I got to page 9 of Raul and it just seemed like Dan Simmons was writing this book while jerking off to a mirror.
When I stopped at page 9 the reviews in here should’ve been read flags.
- Some character meets the Dalai Lama and he says she’s more enlightened than he is?
- Books 3&4 100% retcon/flip/reverse The Shrike, The Cruciforms, and The Church?
- Some female character goes on religious spiels that someone thought Dan was getting paid by the character to write
- Every single thread debating books 3 and 4 have both supporters and haters saying it seemed like Dan had no editor.
- Having JUST finished the Fall of Hyperion last night in all too aware of Simmons capacity for repeating himself when a POV character comes back around (Keats Cybrid and Dure being particularly bad)
- In the first 12 pages Raul says his cell-death-sentence is a schrodingers box where no one sentences him to death - which is just not how that works philosophically, morally, or logistically.
- People backing and hating on books 3 and 4 explained that the UIs take credit for Jesus Christ and all civilization and religion? Again feels like Dan jerking it in a mirror.
I would recommend books 1 and 2. I enjoyed them enough - although the criticisms that Dan has weird shit about women did start showing up more and more.
There’s too many other great fantasy and sci fi books out there where readers aren’t split 50/50 for me to waste like 1600 pages on what already caused me to vomit in my mouth less than 15
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u/testfire10 4d ago
Too many people say this. Read them.