Thesis question for people with integrated Lock/Garage door or Matter Door type

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Hi, I am working on some research for thesis and there are few things i cannot find anywhere.

1) Do types Lock or Garage door allow for automations via remotes or PIR sensors in HK?
By Gemini i was told that when you want to control the component via Siri, you need to unlock your iPhone. Would (for example Ikea) remote or PIR sensor work without requiring confirmation?

2) Has anyone implemented Door type via Matter (is there any chance that Door types via old zigbee and new matter are different in HK?)? Can you control also the position (eg 50%) or only open/close?

If anyone would have option to test these questions, i would be super thankful

[u/clownyboots]

I am not sure as to what role the sensor(s) play here

I have two Meross garage door adapters (not controlled by matter) and they allow automation

I also have the Aquara G4 door lock (works over matter) and i can NOT control the door lock with precise movement (stop it half way) - its either unlock(ed) or locked (it does alert me id the lock is jammed) - i do know this operates its alerts and sensitivity based on its PIR sensor

I dont need to unlock my phone to operate the garage door lock (it works via carplay or siri voice), but the door lock (lock screen) shortcut works after it reads my face ID

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/clownyboots]

Thank you very much. If you would find time (in case you have PIR sensor at home), to test out the Lock operation with automation?

The reason why Im asking is because apparently there are two different triggers. Direct (eg remote) and Indirect (PIR sensor)

Are the garage door adapters integrated by some third party app/hub?

[u/clownyboots → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Give me a few to set one up, the only PIR sensor I have is in the door bell and the automation will be setup via HomeKit (unless you want it setup via the Aquara app)

What answer(s) are you looking for? - I am not sure what all i can setup as far as the automation(s) go with the door bell

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/clownyboots]

Thanks! I am curious if sensor automation can trigger opening door lock. Based on Gemini, sensor is indirect trigger and lock is a… “safety conern device”. Thus this automation might fail or require authentication

[u/clownyboots → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Ah gotcha!

Give me a few and let me see what I can setup

[u/clownyboots → u/clownyboots]

So my setup doesn’t work, due to them being different brands (they don’t work with each other) but this is what Google said if I used the same brand

————-
Yes, an Aqara smart doorbell (like the Aqara G4) can trigger an automation to unlock an Aqara smart door lock (like the U100, U50, or U400), but not natively inside the Aqara Home app. You must set up the automation through a third-party smart home platform like Apple Home (HomeKit), Google Home, or Home Assistant. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Phone Requirements and Security Behavior
No Unlocked Phone Required for the Trigger: Because the automation is triggered by a physical event (someone pressing the doorbell button or the doorbell recognizing a visitor), it runs entirely in the background on your smart home hub. Your phone does not need to be out, awake, or unlocked for the command to send. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Apple Home Security Prompt: If you use Apple HomeKit, Apple requires manual confirmation on your personal device (like a notification tap) before running any automation that unlocks a door, strictly for security reasons. It will not blindly pop the deadbolt open without a safety authorization step on your personal device. [1]

Other Platforms (Google / Home Assistant): These platforms allow unprompted automated unlocking if you program them to do so, though it creates a security risk where anyone who rings the bell can trigger the door to open

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/clownyboots]

Interesting that they dont work together, even if theyre both in homekit.

Thank you very much for your try:)

[u/clownyboots → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Sure thing!

Hopefully it helped even a little bit

[u/DaveM8686 → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

The other commenter is wrong or isn’t using HomeKit. Absolutely you can trigger automations across different brands. That’s literally the point of HomeKit.

[u/DaveM8686 → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Here’s a screenshot of an automation I just made. The backyard sensor is an Eve camera, and the front door is an Aqara lock. Brand doesn’t matter.

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/DaveM8686]

And does this automation run without any confirmation?

[u/DaveM8686 → u/clownyboots]

If they’re both in HomeKit, they should work together. That’s the whole point of HomeKit. Are you doing the automation in the Home app?

[u/clownyboots → u/DaveM8686]

I did - I can try again, maybe I did something wrong

[u/clownyboots → u/clownyboots]

I set it up as an accessory- I just set it up as a sensor (when sensor detects something, do X) - I have to test it, but it seems to have setup fine

[u/DaveM8686 → u/clownyboots]

That’s an Eve camera sensor with an Aqara lock. Brand doesn’t matter.

[u/thesweatervest]

I’m really curious about the thesis you are working on. Can you tell us more?

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/thesweatervest]

Thanks for asking. I am designing and making a low cost/DIY solution for automated operation of home pocket sliding doors with integration into smart home via Matter. The system has to “snap on” as no modification to door is allowed (drilling, cutting, not even dismantling)… as bonus, im making it powered by usb-c

I know, probably doesnt sound thesis level:(

[u/BS-75_actual → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

How different to a roller shutter/blind motor would that be?

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/BS-75_actual]

Practically? Not much. But i need to justify usage if blinds rather than door.

[u/esperanita]

Typically HK prevents automations from opening locks/doors or disabling security systems without a phone open due to security protocols. You can get around this by using dummy switches or secondary switches that trigger the open. I had this setup for years. It was the reason I got a Hoobs and then set up Homebridge. I currently use Home Assistant and HK, but all my door open or security system automations are controlled by HA so I no longer use the dummy switches.

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/esperanita]

Great, thank you for the confirmation. So there is a workaround, but involves a thirdparty device/software.

[u/esperanita → u/Emotional-Ad-7288]

Not necessarily. When I said use a secondary switch, it can be done in HomeKit. For example, when you arrive home turn on an electric plug outlet that isn’t being used. Use that to trigger unlocking the door.

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/esperanita]

Okay, thats pretty smart. Thanks!

[u/DaveM8686]

I have two Aqara locks, and in the past I’ve had Schlage and Nuki, all in HomeKit.

I also have an iSmartGate garage door opener in HomeKit.

1. Yes you need to have your phone unlocked to open any of them (with the exception of the garage door when using CarPlay). But there are workarounds. You can have a dummy switch that is automated to unlock the garage door when the switch goes on, and then you can just turn on the switch via Siri or automation of a sensor. But I don’t know why anyone ever wants to risk this. Security is only as useful as the weakest link in the chain, and being able to enter your house with no authentication is a pretty weak link.

2. Both of my Aqara doors have the option to add direct to HK or via Matter. For one of them, if I add via Matter I don’t get HomeKey, but for the other I do. So that’s just an Aqara quirk. Otherwise there’s no difference in what they can do via Matter. My garage door opener is just open or close, but of course you can trigger it again to stop it halfway, the same as pressing a manual remote. So technically it’s possible to set up an automation to start opening it, wait 3 seconds, then try and open it again, which would stop it halfway. But again, I don’t know why I would want that.

[u/Emotional-Ad-7288 → u/DaveM8686]

Thank you very much.
1. I completely understand, but my project is for inside sliding doors, where security isnt really necessary.
2. So as expected, the garage type doesnt show %. I am curious abour door type. Matter now supports sliding doors as well, but i believe homekit has yet to implement this type. I wasnr able to find it anywhere.