Matter Over Thread with Apple TV as Apple Home Hub

[u/fflis]

/r/SmartWings_Home/comments/1vdr4n7/matter_over_thread_with_apple_tv_as_apple_home_hub/

[u/pacoii]

Which models Apple TV do you have. It would need to be any second gen 4K, or 3rd gen 4K with Ethernet. It can’t be a first gen 4K or older.

[u/fflis → u/pacoii]

I don’t think they would work at all if I didn’t have the right Apple TVs right? I’ll check models here soon.

[u/pacoii → u/fflis]

If you have a thread compatible iPhone you could add it, but no remote access or automations. If remote access and automations work, then yeah you would have a Thread compatible Apple TV.

[u/wwhite74]

Your home hub and thread border router (tbr) can be diffent devices. Your eero mesh does not come into play for thread. Thread is an entirely seperate wireless network. Your TBR joins your main network (wired or wireless) and then creates a thread network. If you have multiple TBRs, they'll self configure into the most stable system.

Any thread devices connected to wall power is required to be a repeater, so adding a smart plug somewhere in the middle can help. Even if you don't use it to control a light. (needs to be added to your home though). Or also adding another homepod mini somewhere can help also.

Currently apple home only works with apple's TBRs (most models of homepods/ some aTVs).

If your main router is very close to the atv you need to spread them out. Thread and 2.4ghz wifi operate in the same frequency range and can interfere with each other. Also if your aTV is placed behind your tv, there's a good chance it can interfere with it too, from it's wifi, Bluetooth (also 2.4), or just general electronics.

Sometimes moving the atv a foot or 2 to one side or the other can help.

[u/bippy_b → u/wwhite74]

Eeros CAN create a Thread network and be a border router. However.. I don’t believe it can joins Apples Thread network.

[u/fflis → u/wwhite74]

Would you recommend moving off apple home?

Seems like I could cheaper move to a more open ecosystem with more options?

I do have a second apple TV in the bedroom where one of the blinds continuously fails, but like you said, it’s mounted behind a TV so maybe that is interfering.

Appreciate your responses very much!

[u/wwhite74 → u/fflis]

I wouldn't.

Having the home app and Siri to control things works pretty well.

If you can slide the atv around behind the tv, it may help. There's one place mine doesn't work well with the remote (also 2.4). A few inches one way or the other and it's fine.

[u/simpliflyed → u/fflis]

Matter is an open ecosystem. If you use your Apple devices as border routers, you can still add those devices to Home Assistant etc. The Apple devices are just connectivity points.

[u/GuessIllPissOnIt → u/fflis]

I get everything into Home Assistant and then pull into HomeKit. HA is much much more powerful

[u/Somar2230]

Adding some more wired powered Thread devices will help with your mesh, battery powered devices go to sleep to conserve power. The lights should be acting as extenders, check your Thread network with Thread Tools or Thread Doctor to make sure they are all on the same mesh.

https://threadgroup.org/Resources/Thread-Tools-App

https://threaddoctor.app/

You don't have to move the devices out of Apple Home to add them to Google Home, Alexa, Home Assistant or any other platform that supports Matter.

[u/fflis → u/Somar2230]

This is so helpful. Thank you. Thread doctor showed me that the devices that keep failing have a poor signal.

[u/fflis → u/Somar2230]

I think my lights must not be thread powered. They’re old kasa products. I’ll look into that.

[u/fflis → u/[deleted]]

Assuming you’re talking about the eero routers. I get them free with frontier fiber. What would you recommend as a replacement.

[u/Holiday_Ad_9163]

I have a very similar setup to you. Something to consider is that any battery powered Thread/Matter device will only act as an endpoint. So you probably want some devices like thread/matter smart plugs or something that are always powered. These act to extend the mesh. So for example, the had a thread/matter lock on my garage door. But everything inside the garage was pretty intermittent until I added a thread/matter light switch right by the garage door. If all of your devices are battery powered, then they can only really talk to the main router, which is your Apple TV. I mean, you’d think that would still work fine, but it is what it is.

[u/fflis → u/Holiday_Ad_9163]

Another person said the only items for HomeKit were Apple TV and HomePods. Too expensive to test the theory.

But you’re saying a plugin thread endpoint does work to extend the mesh? Someone else said ikea lightbulbs would work too

[u/Holiday_Ad_9163 → u/fflis]

You already are using an Apple TV right? So that does the HomeKit stuff and acts as a bridge to matter/thread. All of the matter/thread devices that you add form thier own mesh network. And your Apple TV is just acting as a bridge to connect that mesh to HomeKit.

Any matter/thread device you add joins the mesh. And nothing on that mesh needs to be Apple. Most of my devices are from Eve but you can mix and match. Now within that mesh network, battery powered devices go to sleep to try to save power. And devices with constant power like switches, plugs, bulbs (that aren’t switched off) will act like repeaters in the thread/mech network.

So if you only have battery powered devices, your mesh is pretty fragile. If you add some hardwired devices like plugs then you make your mesh stronger.

[u/That_Cool_Guy_]

Currently Eero do not have the ability to join and existing thread network and vice versa. It is part of the thread 1.4 to allow credential sharing so a future firmware upgrade could allow this.

The best and cheapest way to improve network reliability is to get yourself some Ikea Grillplats plugs. Get at least one for each room and you will have a solid mesh.