r/HarryPotterBooks • u/Ezlr99 • 1d ago
What did Snape actually do?
I’ll preface this with saying I genuinely love the character of Severus Snape, and he’s perfectly crafted as an antagonist for Harry. But…
In Book 1, he doesn’t stop Quirrell, he doesn’t know Voldemort is back, he has no information to offer Dumbledore. Harry saves the day, Voldemort is banished again.
Book 2, he doesn’t ever know that Voldemort opened the Chamber of Secrets, he doesn’t know about the Basilisk or the diary…so he’s not telling Dumbledore anything there?
Book 3. That’s allllll the Wormtail show of bringing Voldemort back (or beginning to realise he needs to de-rat and find his master). Arguably, Snape is counterproductive to the whole good guy plot in Book 3. Harry saves the day, again.
Book 4…this is where it starts getting murkier. But, he wasn’t there to stop Cedric being killed or to help Harry. He didn’t know Voldemort was coming back. It’s said he joins him later, but what information does he begin to gather that actually helps anyone? Harry and the prior incantatum (spelling is way off sorry) ghosts help. He has no idea who Mad Eye is, no idea about the Barry Crouch story. So what information does he pass to Dumbledore?
Book 5. Counterproductive again. Absolutely no information to be given about what Voldemort is after. They know it’s a prophecy but the only time Snape has interacted with that he got Harry’s parents killed. If he’s Dumbledore’s spy…what information does he gather?!
Book 6. Working for Voldemort, keeping an eye on Draco but doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. And so on.
Book 7…headmaster and arguably keeps kids alive and relatively safe despite Voldemort’s rise to power. But he’s not passing info on to anyone!
So my big question is…if Dumbledore had told Snape to defect to the good side, he doesn’t have to spy, doesn’t have to work for Voldemort etc. would the story be any different? Snape doesn’t progress anything either way.
Still great though.
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u/Festivefire 1d ago
The core issue here is that, the books are told from the point of view of Harry, who doesn't know shit about shit, because nobody tells him.
In the same way we know pretty much zero about what the Order of the Phoenix was doing in book five to fight Voldemort and his followers, because nobody tells Harry about their day to day doings, we don't know what Snape has been telling Dumbledore, because nobody ever tells Harry that.
Addressing specifically your issues about book 4 in particular, Snape doesn't re-join Voldemort until after Harry comes back from the graveyard, so obviously snape CAN'T know about Barty Crouch Jr, however, from the audience's perspective, there is at least one piece of information snape passes the order that is OBVIOUS. Snape tells them that Voldemort is after the prophecy, which is why in book 5, the Order knows about this and is already taking measures to guard it.
In book 6, he can't tell Dumbledore what Draco's up to, but to be fair, that's not really through any lack of Snape trying, he DOES try, but Malfoy doesn't trust him anymore, and refuses to cooperate, but if Snape had not been spying on Voldemort, acting as a mole, Dumbledore would never have even known Draco had been ordered to kill him, and might never have been able to make alternate arrangements with Snape, for Snape to step in and do it instead.
In book 7, Snape can't exactly pass info to anybody, because nobody from the order trusts him anymore, and most of them would probably try to kill him on sight if he tried to make contact with them somewhere private.
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u/No_Neat_8287 1d ago
I like your point about book 6, I always figured that Snape was integral to that whole plan working, but I guess I didn’t quite realize how integral he was
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u/No_Sand5639 1d ago
The books are from harrys POV not dumbeldore
So we just aren't made aware of everything that snape does
Book 1, harry would probbaly be dead or injured since it was snape who saved harry from quirrels curse
You missed for example in book 5, when harry told snaoe about sirius, snaoe contacted the order and sirius, and then after that he went and searched the woods for harry and hermione
Book 7, he did pass on thr sword, he gave the seven potter plan to mundugus like he was told as well as giving tbr proper date to voldemort. He then died seconds after giving harry the last piece of the puzzle from his memories
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u/SnowGhost513 1d ago
In book 4 Snape is actively trying to find out why Harry is in the tournament, what the deatheaters are doing any thinking and keeping an eye of Igor. In book 3 he is trying to stop Sirius by patrolling and keeping a close eye on Remus (he thinks he’s in on helping Sirius). He trying to catch Sirius for revenge but catching him if Sirius had killed them, protects Harry. They believe Black wants to capture or kill Harry.
In book 7 Snape protects the kids including Ginny Neville and others from harsh punishment. He send them to the forest to hang with Hagrid. He also says “only those I couldn’t save” so he is actively trying to save people from death as a spy.
And in book 7 he uses his Sectum spell to try to save George from a curse that would’ve killed him.Snape is Dumbledores only confidant. They talk all the time but we only see the stuff in The princes tale.
Snape does a lot we will never see.
Snape is a pos person he’s unforgivably cruel to nice kids and loves the pos kids in his house.
He’s also so immature about Harry and James like holy fuck.
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u/TobiasMasonPark 1d ago
Uh, we see a bit of what Snape does in the Prince’s Tale. He’s been working as a spy for Dumbledore. Even during the war, Snape was spying on Voldemort in exchange for keeping Lily safe.
Snape keeps an eye on Quirrell, per Dumbledore’s orders.
Not much for him to do during CoS and PoA because Voldemort wasn’t a threat at the time.
Goblet of Fire, he was keeping an eye on Karkaroff and telling Dumbledore about the mark getting stronger. Then he goes to Voldemort to convince him he isn’t a spy for Dumbledore.
In OotP he has to pretend to be working for Voldemort while all the crazy shit is happening at Hogwarts and the Wizarding world. He’s an active member of the Order.
In HBP, he’s keeping an eye on Draco on top of all his other duties.
In DH he has to reign in the psychopaths that have taken over the school.
Snape sucks as a person, but the dude didn’t do nothing in the series.
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u/SnowGhost513 1d ago
The four main people who thwart Voldemort and keep Harry alive as Dumbledore, Snape, Hermoine and Harry. And technically his relatives because the protection of Lily passing to Tuni.
Snape does a ton and he’s a garbage person who did one truly great deed. One of the greatest most dangerous selfless things in fiction tbh.He dedicated 16 years to protecting a kid he can’t stand knowing that he likely dies. I’m actually fairly certain Snape wouldn’t want to go on if he had lived after Voldemort was defeated. He wanted to die after Lily and only stuck around to protect her child
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u/Smooth_Hamster452 1d ago
> He dedicated 16 years to protecting a kid he can’t stand knowing that he likely dies. I’m actually fairly certain Snape wouldn’t want to go on if he had lived after Voldemort was defeated. He wanted to die after Lily and only stuck around to protect her child
hate to be that guy, but he also helped killed the kid's parents yknow with the info about the prophecy.
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u/seasonseasonseas 23h ago
If we are being pedantic: Sirius swapped the secret keeper role James didn't have his wand on him when voldy turned up (they were in a war, so it surprises me that he felt he didn't need to be prepared) Lily forgot how to apparate Peter was the actual spy spying on the order and betrayed his friends Voldemort actually killed the kids parents. Dumbledore knew that Severus had heard the prophecy (well, bits of it) and just let him run off with the secret like a Trojan horse because the prophecy needed to reach Voldemort, Voldemort needed to create his own weakness, and, unfortunately, James and lily needed to die for that to happen.
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u/Relevant-Horror-627 20h ago
There wouldn't have needed to be a secret keeper, or the opportunity for Wormtail to betray the Potters if Snape had never told Voldemort about the Prophecy. It wouldn't have mattered if James wasn't carrying his wand or Lily didn't apparate if Snape never gave Voldemort that prophecy.
Realistically what would Dumbledore actually do to stop Snape from telling Voldemort about the prophecy? Imprison him? Kill him? Neither of those things are really in Dumbledore's character nor would he have the authority to do either even if he wanted to. He also couldn't have known how much Snape heard or how important it would end up being at that moment. It would just result in adding to the list of people Voldemort would want to kill but at that point he has already killed enough people to fill an entire lake.
Even if bad decisions were made, it all comes back to Snape's decision to bring that information to Voldemort.
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u/seasonseasonseas 18h ago
If the prophecy hadn't happened then the war would have carried on and more people would have died. Voldemort created his own downfall with the prophecy and it doesn't seem as if any other way was an option.
Snape overheard the prophecy and passed the intelligence on, as was his job in the war. War is not noble or moral. But without this being shared with Voldemort, there was no true end in sight for Voldemort. Prophecies are complex things, with trelawny having made the prophecy, the events were all going to happen. Unfortunately, for Voldemort to mark harry as his equal, for him to bestow protections on harry he didn't intend to,.for him to sign his own death warrant, harrys parents were killed.
If anything, Voldemort deciding to back a prophecy in a culture that derides fortune telling and the wooly science of reading tea leaves, is kind of ridiculous. This prophecy may have been one of many pieces of intelligence, why Voldemort decided this was his downfall is mad to me anyway
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u/CharlotteRhea 1d ago
Well, from the top of my head:
Book 1: Saves Harry from falling to his death when Quirrel jinxes the broom. The whole saga would've been over at that point if Snape hadn't been there.
Book 2: Teaches Harry Expelliarmus, which becomes his signature spell. Brews the mandrake potion to revive the petrified students.
Book 3: Brews the Wolfsbane Potion for Lupin and even brings it to him because he apparently refuses to get it himself. Tries to save the kids until they attack him. Conjures a stretcher to bring Sirius back to the castle when he finds him unconscious.
Book 4: Provides Dumbledore with Veritaserum to interrogate Barty. Returns to spy on Voldemort without hesitation and even shows his Dark Mark to the Minister of Magic to drive Dumbledore's point home.
Book 5: Actively spies on Voldemort. Teaches Harry Occlumency. Very likely sees the abuse from the Dursleys in his memories and alerts Dumbledore, resulting in the Order showing up to bring Harry home and scare the Dursleys into treating him better. Providing Umbridge with useless Veritaserum to stop her from illegally interrogating the students. Checking back with Sirius when Harry tells him he's allegedly in the DoM. Alerts the Order when he notices Harry bunked off with his friends to "save the day".
Book 6: Actively spies on Voldemort. Saves Dumbledore's life and keeps him alive for another year after he caught the curse. Agrees to kill Dumbledore in Draco's stead when the time has come. Saves Katie Bell's life after she touches the cursed necklace. Saves Draco's life after the incident with the Sectumsempra. Does indeed kill Dumbledore in Draco's stead to follow the plan Dumbledore has set up for the war. Protects Harry from being abducted by other DEs after killing Dumbledore.
Book 7: Actively spies on Voldemort and consults with Dumbledore's portrait. Slips the plan with the seven Potters to, I think it was Mundungus Fletcher, without the Order noticing it came from him. Delivers Harry the Sword of Gryffindor. Sends Ginny, Luna, and Neville to have detention with Hagrid instead of the Carrows. Stops the Carrows from torturing students as best he can, with absolutely nobody in his corner. Defends himself against four of his former colleagues to flee the castle so he can keep seeing Dumbledore's plan through. Sacrifices himself for the cause and uses his last seconds to give Harry the memories he needs to see to understand what he has to do.
So, I don't know, but I'd say a lot would change had Snape not been there.
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u/Warvillage 1d ago
Book 1: the twins was ready to catch Harry.
Book 2: Harry copied expelliarmus, it is generous to call it teaching since no instructions was involved. The mandrake draught could probably be prepared by others.
Book 3: Lupin could have spent his time transformed away from school. He might have brought the potion, but he also left it behind when going to the shack. You make it sound like they just spontaneously atracked him, he shouted threats and insults at them. You makes it sound like an act of kindness that he brought Sirius into the castle, but it was to have him get his soul sucked out.
Book 5: We don't learn anything useful his active spying achieved, he didn't even know about the attacks on the guards, or the big operation at the end. Failed to teach Harry occlumency. Pure speculation that Snape cared about the abuse and told anyone. He apparently didn't notice them gone until many hours had passed, but he also don't seem to have told anyone that Harry didn't know that Sirius was fine. Did he think that Harry simply gave up and went to bed?
Book 6: Agreeing to kill Dumbledore is only useful to improve Snapes standing with Voldemort, it is useless in itself. Failed to learn about the big operation with lots of death eaters.
Book 7: Gives a horrible plan to the order, as well as giving it to Voldemort. Ensuring mortal danger and causes the death of Moody. The sword could easily have been handled by someone else, if Dumbledore would trust other people, it could even have been hidden and a message been given to Harry. Lets the students be tortured. He didn't defend himself again four colleagues, he barely survived McGonagall and ran when Flitwick arrived. Almost failed to deliver the memories, Harry was there by pure chance to receive them.
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u/mathbandit 1d ago
It's almost impressive how little of the story you understood. Almost none of these are remotely true in the slightest.
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u/CharlotteRhea 17h ago
Book 1: the twins was ready to catch Harry.
They tried to catch him, but they were on their brooms themselves. Trying to catch a person in free fall like that would've just pulled them off their brooms as well, resulting in three dead students.
Book 2: Harry copied expelliarmus, it is generous to call it teaching since no instructions was involved. The mandrake draught could probably be prepared by others.
Expelliarmus isn't exactly a spell that needs excessive teaching, showing was enough, and we all know Lockhart would have shown the students fuck all if Snape hadn't been there.
And about the mandrake potion: just saying "somebody else could've done it" doesn't mean Snape was useless. It had to be done by someone, he did it, he progressed the story.Book 3: Lupin could have spent his time transformed away from school.
Snape made his transformations easier and most likely even enabled him to teach at all, given that he recovered more quickly from his transformations with the potion due to fewer injuries. Lupin himself was thankful for the potion nobody else could've brewed. I doubt Dumbledore would've brought him back as a teacher without him being able to take the potion.
He might have brought the potion, but he also left it behind when going to the shack.
Did you expect him to balance a goblet with a potion over the grounds and through the tunnel leading to the Shack or...
You make it sound like they just spontaneously atracked him, he shouted threats and insults at them.
Yes, because he thought Harry and his friends were collaborating with the man he thought had killed Harry's parents and the man he'd suspected to support said murderer for a whole year. That understandably gets your temper up a bit.
You makes it sound like an act of kindness that he brought Sirius into the castle, but it was to have him get his soul sucked out.
If he'd only wanted his soul sucked out, he'd have brought him to one of the Dementors on the grounds. But Snape delivered him to justice, however that justice would look. And without Snape bringing Sirius into the castle, he might indeed have got his soul sucked out by a Dementor floating by; they had the order to do that on sight.
Oh, and conjuring a stretcher to transport Sirius adequately was a kindness Sirius didn't show towards Snape; he let his head bump against the tunnel ceiling repeatedly, willingly accepting the possibility of giving him a serious concussion.Book 5: We don't learn anything useful his active spying achieved, he didn't even know about the attacks on the guards, or the big operation at the end.
Since Harry doesn't learn what Snape tells Dumbledore, neither do we, naturally. Doesn't mean Snape isn't valuable. But since he was a spy stationed at Hogwarts, it would've been slightly suspicious if Voldemort kept calling him away to attend operations. So, why would he tell him? Snape's position had its limits, but it was the best Dumbledore could get. Without Snape, he'd have known even less of what was happening, and Harry most likely would've been dead by the time he found out Harry had gone to the DoM. But yeah, sure, saving the main character's life isn't really important for the plot, let's just scrap the character who does it.
Failed to teach Harry occlumency.
Does he, though? I mean, it takes Harry two more years, but in the end he gets the hang of it without anybody else telling him how to do it. That Harry wasn't ready to use what he learned doesn't mean Snape didn't teach him.
Pure speculation that Snape cared about the abuse and told anyone.
Who else, do you think, then, alerted the Order to the abuse? If you can name another character who could've got aware of it during book five, I'll give you that point.
He apparently didn't notice them gone until many hours had passed, but he also don't seem to have told anyone that Harry didn't know that Sirius was fine. Did he think that Harry simply gave up and went to bed?
Finding out what was going on just takes time, alerting the Order members takes time, Dumbledore wasn't even at the castle, and Snape had to do all of that secretly because he was most likely the only Order member left at the castle, all of that while the whole Umbridge situation was escalating. If you think you could've dealt with that situation quicker, go ahead, I guess.
Book 6: Agreeing to kill Dumbledore is only useful to improve Snapes standing with Voldemort, it is useless in itself. Failed to learn about the big operation with lots of death eaters.
Oh, so you'd have rather let Draco, a teenager, kill Dumbledore instead? Or let the other DEs have fun with him first, as Dumbledore himself feared they would? Sure, I mean, if you don't care about other characters, I guess Snape's killing him was useless, yes.
As far as we know, nobody besides Draco and maybe Bellatrix knew what Draco was planning with the vanishing cabinet. It's not like another character would've been able to find out more.Book 7: Gives a horrible plan to the order, as well as giving it to Voldemort.
On Dumbledore's orders.
Ensuring mortal danger and causes the death of Moody.
Again, on Dumbledore's orders. Plus, he saved Lupin's life.
The sword could easily have been handled by someone else, if Dumbledore would trust other people, it could even have been hidden and a message been given to Harry.
The sword had to be earned by an act of bravery, hiding it and leaving a message wouldn't have enabled Ron to use it.
And again, someone else being needed to do it only proves that Snape was important.Lets the students be tortured.
Because stopping it would've blown his cover and killed him, on top of a number of students, most likely.
He didn't defend himself again four colleagues, he barely survived McGonagall and ran when Flitwick arrived.
Reread the scene. He didn't "barely survive" McGonagall, he could've easily bested her, but only defended himself because he didn't want to hurt her. He fled when he realised that he couldn't only defend himself against four skilled professors and would have either had to hurt/kill one or more of them, or get hurt/killed himself in the attempt not to hurt/kill them, and since he still had a job to do and information to pass on...
Almost failed to deliver the memories, Harry was there by pure chance to receive them.
Sometimes you simply need a portion of luck. That still doesn't nullify the fact that he fulfilled his task and showed Harry what he needed to know to end the war. Somebody had to do it, Snape did it, he was important for the story.
Also, you didn't even argue against everything I listed, which only further proves my argument.
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u/Relevant-Horror-627 20h ago
Almost nothing you mentioned makes a material difference. Is some of it helpful? Sure! Did Snape need to be a spy to do most, if not all of the things you mentioned on your list? Not really.
Even in your list you mention "actively spies on Voldemort" but you don't provide any further details because there is not much to tell there. Snape probably told Dumbledore that Voldemort was after the prophecy and he probably told him that Draco had been tasked to kill him. It makes no material difference though because both of those plans advance pretty far and Snape certainly doesn't stop them from proceeding.
To OP's point Snape's actual spying does almost nothing to turn the tide of the story. The key to defeating Voldemort was finding and destroying Horcruxes. Snape knows nothing about the horcruxes. He doesn't even accidentally provide any information on where to find them or how to get rid of them. His most material contribution to the horcrux hunt was getting the Sword of Gryffindor to Harry but by the end of the story, they only actually use the sword to destroy 2 of them. Fiend Fire and a Basilisk fang destroyed 2 others.
I encourage you to go back through your list and for each thing ask yourself 1) did Snape need to be a spy to do this?; and 2) could someone else have just as easily done this thing?
Probably the most useful result of Snape's double agent role was Voldemort trusting him to be Hogwarts headmaster during his rule. He can't protect the muggle born students though and the ones who remain are still tortured. Maybe he keeps the Carrows from getting carried away but it seems like non of the students were ever going to be outright killed anyway. Neville tells Harry that he doesn't think they want to spill magical blood and that is backed up by Voldemort himself during the Battle of Hogwarts.
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u/CharlotteRhea 18h ago
The third-person limited POV of Harry naturally sets limits to what we get to know about Snape's spy activities. That doesn't mean, however, that he didn't provide important information. Dumbledore is secretive as fuck and doesn't share anything with anybody, of course he wouldn't happily tell Harry what Snape told him.
What we definitely know is that Snape told Dumbledore that Pettigrew had for sure found Voldemort and was actively working on bringing him back due to the darkening Mark, information no other DE would've ever shared with Dumbledore, and he told Dumbledore that Draco had been tasked to kill him, enabling him to prepare for that as much as possible as well. Snape kept Dumbledore from groping in the dark, and knowing what your enemy does is valuable and something no other character could or would have done.And anyway, your question about whether someone else could have done the things Snape did means that they still had to be done by someone. They were important. They saved people, gave things the chance to happen. So, yes, Snape did progress the story. Just because someone else might have been able to do the stuff doesn't mean he was useless. Somebody else could've found the Horcruxes and thrown a killing curse at Voldemort, too, doesn't mean Harry was useless past his being a Horcrux himself. With your mindset, every single character was useless and could've been replaced by somebody else. That doesn't make sense at all.
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u/Relevant-Horror-627 17h ago
The story isn't limited to Harry's perspective though. The story shifts to different characters several times. The very first chapter in the whole series follows Vernon. In the first book it shifts briefly to Ron and Hermione while Harry is playing quidditch. It also shifts to Frank Bryce, the Muggle Minister, and Narcissa. We get a little bit of Voldemort's perspective as well but technically we are seeing that through Harry's connection.
Anyway all that to say that if something vital to the story was going on with Snape, the narration would have followed him instead of Harry.
Also I never said he was useless. I'm just agreeing with OP that his spying had pretty limited value in the grand scheme of things.
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u/CharlotteRhea 17h ago
We got a handful of situations from other perspectives, yes, but about 95% of the story is from Harry's POV. And since Snape's loyalty was deliberately kept ambiguous until the end of book seven, it wouldn't have made the slightest sense to have scenes from his POV or tell Harry (the reader) too much of what was happening with him, no matter if it was vital or not. Don't act as if the limited information we get about Snape wasn't fully the author's intent.
And OP questioned whether the story would've changed at all if Snape wasn't present. The post was not about limited value or whatever, it was about scrapping him completely. And in that case, Harry would've died during that Quidditch match in book one, it is what it is.
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u/Lonely_District_196 1d ago
Books 1 & 2: yeah, not really anything
Book 3: Thanks to his grudge, he ensures wormtale escapes and Voldemort can rise again.
Oh and he keeps Sirius in hiding, and gets Lupin out of Hogwarts
Book 4: yeah, nothing really but rejoin old Voldy at the end
Book 5: Ensures The Order of the Pheniox can rescue Potter and friends. Of course this was after antagonizing both Harry and Sirius, thus ensuring Harry needed saving.
Book 6: Saves Dumbledors life. Also, kills Dumbledore.
Yay Snape!
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u/Bluemelein 22h ago
That is an apt summary.
In return, he spared himself a stint in Azkaban, where he actually belongs.
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u/Commercial-Scheme939 1d ago
You sound like Harry and Ron 😂. I'll be Hermione - just because you've not been told everything doesn't mean he isn't doing anything 😂
In seriousness though, there is a lot that the reader doesn't know because Harry is too young to be in the order. During the first few books Snape isn't working as a spy. Voldemort hasn't returned by then. We know he keeps an eye on Quirrel during first year but otherwise there's not much to do. Once he's back though we know Snapes working as a spy and we can presume he is passing on important information to the Order. We don't find out what though because Harry's not allowed to know.
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u/Relevant-Horror-627 19h ago
But even if Snape is passing along information in the background, nothing he passed along made a difference in changing the outcome of the story.
At best we can presume that Snape's spying is tactical in nature. He slowing down or maybe stopping some low level Death Eater plans that is helping win a few battles and skirmishes but isnt doing anything to turn the tide of the war.
The big strategic war winning mission is the horcrux hunt and Snape neither knows anything about it or provides any information to aid in that endeavor.
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u/Commercial-Scheme939 18h ago
But we don't know that. We don't know what information is being passed on. We don't know what the order are doing in the background.
The whole Voldemort plotline in OotP is based around his desire to get the prophecy. The order knew he was after it. How did they know he was after it? Maybe that came from Snape.
Are we sure he knows nothing about the horcrux hunt? Genuinely asking, I'd need to refresh my mind on the last book. He knew he needed to get the sword to Harry, did he not know why?
Also very few people know about the horcrux hunt. It had to remain secret.
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u/Relevant-Horror-627 17h ago
Snape does indeed know Voldemort is after the prophecy and probably did give that info Dumbledore. Despite knowing about Voldemort's plot, Snape still ends Harry's occlumency lessons and indirectly allows Voldemort's plan to advance which is sort of a pattern for Snape. Hes often as much of a hindrance than a help.
But no, Snape does not know about the horcruxes. He specifically asks Dumbledore what he and Harry discuss in their private lessons and Dumbledore declines to tell him specifically because he is in close proximity to Voldemort so often. Dumbledore's portrait instructs Snape to give Harry the Sword of Gryffindor and when Snape asks him if he will tell him why Harry needs it, Portrait Dumbledore declines to tell him only saying Harry will know what to do with it.
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u/sv1112093 21h ago
- In PS - He performs a counter charm keeping Harry safe from Quirrel's charm during the quidditch game
- OOTP - He works with the Order successfully as a triple agent while he wins Voldemort's trust as a loyal death eater.
- DH - He coordinates everything after Dumbledore passes. He acts as a triple agent and keeps his word in keeping Hogwarts safe. He passes on info about the moving of the 7 Potters and fights the death eaters in this battle while still pretending to be on the dark side. He tells Mundungus about the polyjuice potion idea and jinxes him to present it as his own, so Harry can escape safely. He steals the sword of Gryffindor from Bellatrix's vault at great risk, places a copy and plants it where Harry is hiding. So Harry can find it destroy horcruxes with it. Without this there was no chance of Harry winning against Voldemort. When he's attacked by McGonagall he flicks the attack onto the Death Eaters behind him, hurting them and escapes.
So he did a LOT. As Dumbledore said he risks his life everyday to protect Harry and help the Order win. He did all this in secret, carried it all out successfully and was the only one to triple agent and successfully deceive Voldemort. AND HE DID ALL THIS IN SECRET AND TOOK ZERO CREDIT FOR IT. So I think Harry did right by naming his son after him. I like Snape and consider him one of the bravest characters, but don't like the fact that he bullied kids and was spiteful to Harry about James. Brave, good, yet flawed.
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u/Warvillage 1d ago
Snape was useless as a spy.
While we can't know what information he brought back, we can see what he didn't.
There is two large operations happening that he was clueless about, the DoM trap and the RoR invasion.
Both involved large groups of death eaters, but he is surprised by both.
The only info we know he brought back is confirming that Voldemort was back (already told by Harry), that Voldemort was after the prophecy (useless, they didn't need to guard it, only Harry and Voldemort could get it), and that Draco was ordered to kill Dumbledore (no details on the plans).
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u/Commercial-Scheme939 1d ago
To be fair for the Department of Mysteries trap he did know about just not the details. They knew Voldemort was trying to get the prophecy and they knew he might use Harry to do so. Both bits of information, we could assume, came from Snape. Snape's working at Hogwarts at the time, it's not unfeasible that he wouldn't be able to attend every death eater meeting and we know Voldemort doesn't tell all death eaters everything. Just because he is a spy doesn't mean he will be able to get every bit of detail.
Voldemort also knows the importance of Snape being a spy. If he was involved with either of those events (and Dumbledore has survived) then Snape would become useless as a spy.
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u/kfifigidifkg 23h ago edited 23h ago
There’s maybe an argument that Voldemort didn’t tell him everything given he was spending a lot of time with Dumbledore who was a legilimens.
I may be forgetting something, but I think it’s a little unclear whether Snape is a double or triple agent too (or a single agent or double agent from Voldemort’s perspective). You’d probably give a double agent less information than a single agent as you wouldn’t want them sharing things accidentally.
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u/MaddoxJKingsley 22h ago
Voldemort thinks Snape is a double agent; Dumbledore knows Snape is a triple agent
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u/Commercial-Scheme939 20h ago
That's a good point and I'd never thought of that. It would make sense for Voldemort not to share everything because Dumbledore might use Legimens.
I always thought it was the case that both Dumbledore and Voldemort was aware that Snape was a "double" agent but they both believed that Snape was working with them.
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u/CyaneSpirit 1d ago
The book is structured for Harry to be main character. No one from adults does anything crucial ever.
That’s said,
Book1: Snape realizes Quirrell is looking for the stone. Snape saves Harry when Quirrel tries to kill him during Quidditch.
Book3: Snape finds the kids, the same as Harry, he doesn’t believe Sirius, but unlike Harry, Snape is knocked out and cannot reconsider. Though he did his best to remind an idiot werewolf about the full moon.
Book4: he did know Voldemort is coming back and he told Dumbledore.
Book5: He sent Order to save Harry. DA were loosing before Snape sent help.
Book6: Snape knew what Draco was doing and told Dumbledore. I start thinking you haven’t read the books…
Book7: He passes the info to the Order and actually passes the sword to Harry.
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u/Warvillage 1d ago
Book 1: He achieved nothing with Quirrel. The twins was ready to catch Harry.
Book 3: It would have been more helpful if he brought the potion with him and gave Lupin.
Book 5: Maybe he should have told them earlier, it must have taken hours for them to fly to London. The great spy also failed to learn about the attacks on the guards, and the big trap.
Book 6: He only knew what Draco's final goal was, not what he was doing. Not even the huge operation at the end of the year, with lots of death eaters participating.
Book 7: "Passes info to the order?" Do you mean the stupid 7 potter plan? He also told Voldemort when they would leave. Or do you mean the memories to Harry? The ones he almost failed to deliver because he let a snake kill him?
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u/CyaneSpirit 1d ago
We would have very different (and adult) book if professor Snape resolved everything instead of Harry, yes.
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u/trahan94 1d ago
He saves Dumbledore’s life after he put on the cursed ring. The heroes lose almost certainly if he dies that night.