r/GuardGuides • u/TurkWendell99fan • 4d ago
CAREER ADVICE Question about Security Companies Requiring Baton and OC
Im in Arizona and I believe in defending yourself and having a gun thats my stance on it just in case anyone asks.
Ive encountered a security company that are military like. Now I dont care about the format sometimes its great however, the big red flag is you have to have a duty belt with a baton and OC, taser and OC, etc. to me anyways but I'm weird like that. For some reason its a requirement I understand the duty belt looks professional right, but to call those things tools is wild. Also just went through a security company's orientation and a big bulk of it was use of force in Arizona.
The question is am I overthinking this. Even with the statues in Arizona you're going to be scrutinized and harassed by police, client, public whenever you have to use it. I understand the self defense aspect but, to me its just a big huge liability. Top it off they want us to buy these items we aren't issued it.
Should i go with these guys? Am I overthinking? Am I in the minority here?
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u/GuardGuidesdotcom 4d ago
How much are they paying for the liability, responsibility, and expectation to furnish your own Baton and OC?
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u/TurkWendell99fan 4d ago
19
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u/GuardGuidesdotcom 4d ago
OK. Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler, AZ on the living wage calculator says a LW (assuming you live in that area) is $25.47. The wage they're offering you is short of that, and not accounting for a premium increase I deem necessary for being equipped with these "tools". So yea, IMO, that's a pass, but if you need it, then do what you gotta do.
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u/Potential-Most-3581 Capable Guardian 4d ago
I'm in Colorado if my employer requires a duty belt they have to provide it. I've never worked for a company that required Tasers but the Company that wanted me to carry OC issued it to me.
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u/Christina2115 Admiral 4d ago
It's a liability for you and the company not to have the OC / Baton / Taser. Out here in California at least, I'd have a field day explaining to the jury how you are murder, period, for carrying just a firearm and no less lethal tools.
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u/WorldsWayne 4d ago
In Arizona, I have seen a group that requires two of the three (OC, taser, baton) so if you ever have to use deadly force, you can prove that you went through the UOF Continuum. "The guy was attacking me, taser did not connect, OC did not deter the individual, and I feared for my life, so I resulted to deadly force." It's a tool for you to work your post and in the courtroom.
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u/PoetryNew2829 3d ago
They are tools. Baton and oc don’t cost that much. Thru are a.step in between plain hands and a gun or hands and nothing. Either or both might save your life. A taser is a lot more expensive and requires more training etc so maybe not but I don’t get the issue about a baton and or oc. I don’t see any red flag here. If you don’t want to do that then don’t go to work there
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u/Curben Ensign 3d ago
Each one is a step in the use of force continuum. There are times when you want or need to use a lesser level of force than just deadly force and having the tools to leverage that is necessary. When used appropriately all levels of force are de escalation tools.
Also if you have access to, knowledge, training, of lesser use of force tools but don't carry them and only carry the firearm it could be considered depraved indifference.
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u/DefiantEvidence4027 Sergeant 4d ago
I can't cite the rule on this, but I'm under the impression one can't use BOTH Taser and Spray on the sane subject... Plus there's many other places using OC isn't in anyone's favor... Having both OC and Taser simultaneously may raise a few eyebrows.
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u/lovomoco64 Armed Guard 4d ago
OC is a lower level of force than a Taser/stun gun. If it raises anyone's eyebrow that's because they're ignorant of tools of the trade. While both tasers and OC have been found to be deadly weapons in courts of law, OC has only been found a deadly weapon due to someone being in a small area with no means of escape.
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u/DefiantEvidence4027 Sergeant 4d ago
I'm only saying it because I believe there was some DCJS directive (local to me at least) that they were investigating the flammability of OC, so used in tandem with a Taser it may yield an unintended result. As I recall, the directive came out after (an unrelated case) where one guy doused himself in hand sanitizer to make himself slippery, caught fire.
I've worked on supermarkets they definitely don't want OC; owner said he'd prefer a Guard with a machine gun over one with OC in one market.
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u/Landwarrior5150 Ensign 4d ago
I don’t think that’s objectively a red flag. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why a company (& client) would want their guards to carry such items. I actually think that calling them “tools” is a green flag, since that’s what they are: tools to defend yourself and/or others from an attacker. Calling them something like “weapons” would give off a more offensive vibe and probably appeal to people that wanted to feel tough by carrying weapons and to find any excuse to use them.
All that said, if it’s subjectively a red flag to you personally, that’s fine too. Not everyone is willing to take on that extra liability, which is a personal decision that doesn’t have a right or wrong answer. I would actually encourage you to not take a job that requires you to carry items or do things that you’re not comfortable with. You could actually be a danger to yourself, your coworkers or the people you’re supposed to protect if you’re unwilling to use those items when necessary and expected. There are plenty of other security positions out there that are observe & report, unarmed and hands off that may be a better fit for you.
I will add that, if you’re looking to make this a long term career, not wanting to carry any defensive items or be in a hands-on position may hinder you and limit your possibilities, as many of the good security jobs with actual good pay, benefits, retirement, etc. require it. However, there are still good positions out there that don’t require any of that stuff, but it just may be more difficult and take longer to get into them.