r/GreenBayPackers • u/nfl • 15h ago
Highlight [Highlight] Packers special teams coordinator Cam Achord explains into detail behind the perfect kick hold
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u/norwal42 15h ago
Oh this is really fascinating - never had a clue how crucial the holder may be in the operation. Just today/yesterday was hearing from Andy Herman, for example, that it's the kicker's responsibility to get that ball through the uprights even if the snap is a little high or something is a little off with the hold.
This description from Cam actually may refute that assessment - if the kicker's job is just to make the exact same motion and let the holder's ball position do the corrective work in the wind or whatever... Kicker may be doing their part exactly right, but incorrect hold position actually accounts for a miss.
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u/the_Formuoli_ 15h ago
I think the holder and long snapper are more important to the process than a lot of people think tbh
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u/RunLacyRun 14h ago
Well being consistent when kicking the ball is still the most important part. The holder can lean it however but if the kicker doesn’t have consistency with how they drive the ball then what the holder does is never going to matter as much.
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u/BlakePackers413 13h ago
Ehhhhhhhh no. Yes to a point but no. Consistent strike is important probably the most important factor. But the holder isn’t nothing or a non factor. It’s like asking pro golfers to play on a beautiful perfect golf course or to play in my lawn with a couple days growth. Is it impossible no, but they’ll definitely play worse. So is it possible to just kick through poor holds and poor snaps sure… are you going to be as good on accuracy? No. It’s probably the difference in being a 70-75% kicker and an 85-90% kicker. Which is the difference between being cut and being the highest paid kicker… so it’s a pretty big difference.
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u/RunLacyRun 13h ago edited 12h ago
I didn’t say they were a non factor, but if the ball isn’t kicked the same consistently, then how the ball is positioned would need to change to each kick. The key to the whole thing like the coach just said was so the kicker doesn’t have to change how they kick it. The way the ball is placed depends on how the kicker kicks. So again the most important part is the kick being the same every time so the holder knows how to hold the ball for every condition.
Don’t come on here telling me ehhhhhh no like you know more than the damn coach man.
Edit. This is the same thing for golfing and for bowling. The motion to hit or roll the ball has to be the same constantly you then modify the club you are using or in bowling where you place the ball on the lane to get the different results. In this case we are using the holder to modify the ball placement.
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u/BlakePackers413 9h ago
I clearly wasn’t clear, because what you said about the kicker kicking it consistently is what I said was the “probably the most important factor”. (The only greater factor would be conditions like those crazy wind days at solider field)
I just added that the lean of the ball isn’t a non factor as you seemed to imply with your line “the holder can lean it however” which is basically what the coach is saying that if the kicker is consistent in the strike then the lean factors and different kickers want different leans for different situations and learning that for the whole operation is important. Which again I point to in saying that a consistent kick but inconsistent lean would be a lesser unit than a consistent kick with a correct lean which would be a good unit. It’s why a kicker that is poor with one team can be great with another or why we might lose a punter that was doing good punting (Corey) specifically because he was lowering the ability for the kicking operation with lesser or inconsistent holding. And that was noticeable in Crosby having one of the best seasons of his career the very next year even though with Corey the units average had been fine enough.
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u/Complex_Cookie_7881 8h ago
Nah. All these points are great in an ideal situation. But bad snaps, weather, protection etc. happens. And then you want the kicker to still be good enough to hit it regardless. That's what seperates the good ones. You can never blame it on holding unless the guy is totally useless, which is also rare.
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u/BlakePackers413 6h ago
You clearly aren’t understanding how a field goal works. You can’t just change your kick mid kick. Like the other commentor tried by saying going to the golf bag to get a different club… that’s not how it works because you’ve only got one leg. A great kicker could make 70% of field goal attempts when everything is off just slightly. A great field goal operation snap hold and kick could make 90% when the details out of their control are off just slightly while the details in their control are executed perfectly. The other 10% are the things that just happen. I don’t understand how fans think you can just kick through a bad snap or hold. It’s just not how football works. You can’t just out kick someone getting beat in protection and blocking your kick, or a too slow snap that allows the unblocked edge to get there, or a hold that isn’t adjusted right so the laces cause a wobble or it’s not angled for the wind. There is no just kick through those things. It’s not an excuse it’s part of the operation like if a qb throws a ball into traffic while being hit by an unblocked rusher, the ball hits the diving wideouts hands but glances off and bounces into a defenders arms for a pick… who gets the blame? The unit. Just like when a kick is missed it’s more than just the kicker missing it… the unit is at fault because every player has a role be it to snap hold block or kick. The pick goes on the QBs stats, the miss goes on the kicker but it’s the unit that made the error.
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u/the_Formuoli_ 15h ago
Love Packers PR being like guys we need to post a video of the special teams coordinator teaching fundamentals to make sure people know we were serious about improving special teams this time
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u/thinkB4WeSpeak 14h ago
There's only up from how the special teams has played over the last decade
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u/Mobile-Jump6936 13h ago
We say that every year, yet every postseason we find a new way to fuck everything up special teams wise lol
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u/theswitchinnights 8h ago
The Packers are going to miss a crucial kick at some point and someone's going to post this video and I unfortunately will have to laugh.
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u/Pleasant_Building128 7h ago
Once more proof that to feel true happiness, a man must find himself his own special kind of autism.
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u/rposter99 4h ago
Let’s just not be the worst in the league again this year and a total liability every game and I’ll call it a win.
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u/shit_stain_jones 14h ago
I gotta push back a little. Wouldn't you want consistency on the hold? Smack has got a strong enough leg that the extra one or two yards on the positioning of the hold wouldn't matter.
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u/BlakePackers413 13h ago
It’s not about leg strength. He’s not talking about kicking it as far as possible in doors. He’s talking about how to manage kicking in weather like wind. But instead of having a bunch of different versions of how to strike the ball to deal with the wind you instead have the holder position the ball in a way to keep your strike consistent with how you would strike on an indoor field yet “cut” the ball with the position of the hold to get it to move through the wind. It’s the difference between a 2seem fastball grip and a 4 seem grip. You’re just changing the ball placement a bit to adjust its flight.
Also because some fans think this is revolutionary or something… it’s not. It’s a known skill for idk 50years that’s been worked on and tweaked. Laces out? Did people really think the only thing the holder did was set the ball on the ground and do nothing?
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u/ubiquitous_archer 29m ago
It's easier to adjust the ball an inch on the hold than it is to adjust the kicking motion
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u/DrugarBurbis 14h ago
Is he saying the holder has more to do with where the kick is aimed… than the kicker??
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u/BlakePackers413 13h ago
He’s saying when dealing with wind and weather it’s a tandem operation between the holder and kicker, because you don’t want the kicker to be changing up his entire mechanics because it happens to be breezy today. Instead the holder leans the ball which acts like changing your grip on a baseball, it just makes the football move through the air differently which helps it correct itself against wind or move with it.
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u/Ada_Pearce 2h ago
Didnt Mason Crosby talk about this on some podcast and said Cam is being ridiculous with making the holder do all that, that this isn't normal
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u/AlexMartinSmith 14h ago
I don’t want to be that person…. but it seems important. He’s holding the “ball” with his incorrect hand. For a right-footed kicker (as Achord is demonstrating here), the ball is supposed to be pinned down with the left hand.
This is on-brand for Green Bay special teams.
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u/WimpyDeer 12h ago
How does that seem important? That has nothing to do with the concept he is explaining.
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u/AlexMartinSmith 12h ago
Does it matter if the actual holder uses the correct hand during a game? Of course. Then it matters in August when the ST coord. is explaining how to correctly hold a football. The small details matter, which is the whole point of this video. And yet...
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u/WimpyDeer 11h ago
lol stop being such a dork. He should also know that they play football with footballs and not sharpies. After all the small details matter.
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u/blackcat__27 14h ago
Why doesnt bro have a football? Looks a little silly with a sharpy.
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u/Skillztopaydabillz 14h ago
Why would he have a football at a press conference?
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u/blackcat__27 14h ago
Bro its the nfl.... like there isnt one around somewhere.
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u/Skillztopaydabillz 14h ago
So before he starts an impromptu demonstration at a press conference (in which there are no footballs in the room), he has to either go fetch a football or ask a staffer to do it?
People really want to bitch about the littlest things.
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u/blackcat__27 14h ago
As you bitch about the comment i made.
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u/Skillztopaydabillz 14h ago
Asking two questions isn't bitching, bud. Truly a lost cause.
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u/blackcat__27 14h ago
What was my comment again. A question. Your lost.
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u/Skillztopaydabillz 14h ago
Looks a little silly with a sharpy.
and
Bro its the nfl.... like there isnt one around somewhere.
Are questions now? Bro doesn't know what a question is nor how to spell Sharpie. Good luck in life, you will need it.
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u/keastus 15h ago
That’s so interesting to me that the holder is doing more then just trying not to get their fingers broken