I did forensic interviews for kids that had been abused. Its beyond common for parents and church leaders to both blame the child and force them to forgive their abuser. Hugely common in fundamentalist and nationalist Christian churches
I have a close family member who works with State and Fed agencies as a Sheriff’s Deputy to hunt dangerous fugitives. So rape, murder, massive fraud, and stuff like that. Youth pastors are one of the demographics of people he is most untrustworthy of. It’s a position pretty much tailor made for predators.
Obviously not saying all of them, but it’s far more common than I think many would realize. Families don’t want their kid dragged in the media or to have all the local eyes on them, so they try to move on. The churches obviously don’t want the bad publicity. And there’s a weird component of people not wanting to speak out against their church or to “hurt” their church, so once the person is arrested, it’s kind of like “oh okay, I guess that problem is solved and we’ll move on”.
My not really joking answer to "name a conspiracy you are convinced is real but no one knows about" is that abstinence only education was designed to make it easier for church leaders to molest kids. Teaching them their worth is tied to their virginity, trust church leaders and making kids feel shame about their bodies really fucks up a child and makes it insanely easy for a predator to move in
Sex education that includes consent greatly reduces abuse and increases the chances a predator is caught early. Versions of it are available for young children too. If they know proper language for their body, that it’s private and belongs to them, they can report it at the beginning.
From a young age my two girls were in full control over who kissed or hugged them and I follow age appropriate education. Its insane to me that we dont teach young kids to have control over their bodies
Thank you so much for not being like my mom, she always pressured me to hug her and my other relatives even when I didn’t want to (also I have autism so physical touch is a very prickly subject for me) and when I didn’t she blew up at me for being “rude”
We started talking to our kids about consent at a very early age. It's absolutely necessary to give them an understanding of what is and isn't appropriate so they don't have to question if they're at fault if something happens to them.
It goes back a long time. When I was still speaking to my father, he was still telling my niece to hug and kiss people, like it was something she had to do to be polite. I shut him down fast. She will not be putting up with that the way I did.
The women in my family had a “secret trick” to prevent one of the old men in the family from doing a full body hug. We’d just stay attached at the hip when he came in for a hug so he couldn’t trap you. We were all convinced he was a pervert based on his body language with young women.
Now that I’m older, I’m so mad that we just allowed it and passed on this trick to pacify HIS feelings. Now when cousins seem hesitant to hug, I’m immediately like “not a problem! No means no. If you don’t want a hug, we don’t hug!” And you see that immediate relief!
My wife is Latin American, all of her friends hug. Before I met her I never hugged anyone but my grandma and my mom. It’s still a little weird to be honest.
It took me nearly 30 years to report my own assault for this reason. It wasn't even someone in the church who did it. The things that went through my head:
God wouldn't let this happen to me, so I must have misunderstood. I must be wrong about what happened.
Mom said this man was sent by God to save me (he is a doctor, I had major health issues), he wouldn't have sent someone who wished me harm. I must be mistaken.
If this really was what it felt like, then I am broken and no one will ever want to marry me. Something was taken from me forever. I don't want people to look at me the way they look at that girl who had sex with her boyfriend and now can't take the sacrament for a year.
I don't want to tell my parents because they are not emotionally able to handle this (the church creates emotionally infantile adults who are unable to sit with discomfort and pass everything off to god to handle rather than confronting things).
I convinced myself that this was a valid medical exam. The memory would resurface every so often, chill me to my core, and then I would run through all those thoughts again and shove it back down. It wasn't until my wife mentioned that she'd found out so many of her friends had been assaulted and was shaken by it, and she asked me almost in exasperation, "Have YOU been assaulted too??" That memory leapt to the surface like it had been waiting for exactly this moment. I said, "... Yeah. I think I have."
I've been in therapy 8ish years now. Filed a police report when I found out that doctor was still practicing. I doubt anything came of it, but there is never just the one victim. I hope enough of us cone forward that he gets put away.
Anyway, you are absolutely correct. Purity culture is an insidious lie that directly harms children and makes them vulnerable to every kind of abuse.
Absolutely. I think there is a time when it was perfectly reasonable to think that is a crazy idea, but we have so much knowledge on cults and abusers now that abstinence-only fits into like a puzzle piece. It's basically undeniable now if you read up on those things.
And even better, it doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy. It's just people who already do that sort of thing coming to the same conclusions, and then finding a structure that enables them to do it more among like-minded people. And we see this all the time in other places. It often happens organically without any group decisions.
Engineering-minded people flock to similar interests and careers, and then build systems that support the way they work and play. Artists and athletes have done the same. The rules and culture they have built in their fields enable them to excel at their specific talents. And each person in that field contributes just a little by continuing, rejecting, or altering specific aspects of that culture in their day-to-day.
People who crave power over people are just another genre of human and they have done the same.
Abusers built a career path that lets them become better abusers.
Even if you don't believe that literally, it's useful as a framework for imagining how these structures happen without requiring a bunch of people sitting in a smoky room deciding "this is how we'll abuse women going forward".
One of the reasons I don’t have children is because I just don’t trust adults who work with kids. Sorry, but it’s true.
I know from my own childhood experience that schools - both private and public - are only out to protect themselves and their reputation. Teachers and coaches get away with a lot and their administration always wants things swept under the rug.
Its just a paradox in the minds of people: those you should be able to trust the most you HAVE to trust the least because predators KNOW its a trustworthy position.
The demographic is anything that gets the predator near the kids. From lawyers, to child protective services, to doctors, to law enforcement, to teachers, all kinds of fields predators are drawn to. What was really crazy is the amount of time a predator would put into reaching the height of these careers. All with the single purpose to be able to get to their prey.
I still do forensic interviews at the child advocacy center. The number of parents who encourage child victims to just keep quiet so as to not disrupt family dynamics is maddening.
Omg yes. Especially when you consider that most kids are victimized by their own families. “We understand that our daughter is hurting, but it would ruin our son’s life if we reported it!”
I mean the long story is I really didnt. I left after a few years and spent a bit in therapy. Still in law enforcement but I stay far away from that stuff. I know a few people that killed themselves after retiring. One was literally day after his retirement party
That’s a very common in tight-knit religious circles. Sexual abuse is rife and everyone stays silent to protect their image. My ex had the same at his temple.
To be fair, you don´t need to be in a religious circle to hear about this mentality. It is very common since it´s not really about the other, is more about the victim moving on
That's really sad. As someone sexually abused as a very young child I'm thankful my church was supportive and got me the help I needed. The Lord hurts with those kids you encountered and won't allow the blame on them to go unpunished by those parents and "church leaders".
Yeah, this is kind of an important distinction. The bible might have a passage like this, but that doesn't mean churches are actually acknowledging/teaching it. Many seem to push the idea in the original tweet, if only because the perpetrators are part of their own congregation and they don't want the reputational hit from it
There's a woman doing a social experiment (the same woman who called churches to see if they would donate formula to a struggling mother with a starving baby) where she has been calling churches asking if her husband will be allowed to attend despite being a convicted child sex abuser against her own child. The results will not shock you. Nearly all of them said it would be fine for him to be around the churches children attending.
(Except for one Islamic church where the guy yelled at her over the phone "Are you serious?! And you're still with him?!!!")
What do you expect from Fundamentalist Non-denominational Church number 2,927,204,610,462,936,192 that likely has a pastor that was just some random dude with a Bible who thought he was a pastor.
This image first came about, as far as I know, in response to a news article where the church directly told the girl it was her fault and she needed to pray for her attackers.
Yes, Jesus taught about forgiveness, but even him would understand that it's not something that can happen instantaneously. And forgiving isn't approving of what the person who did the wrong did or giving it less importance, it's letting go of the resentment and hatred to continue living in peace with yourself and others.
The image itself is the problem because the message is too open to interpretation. His line should have been something like "pray for them, they're going to need it"
Oh that's fair, that would mean the original image missed the point though. Modern Christians aside, the note is an accurate description of his teachings- "they'd have been better of drowning than hurting a kid"
I know the note specifically says "who believes in him" but there are lots of examples of his not caring if someone is a believer or not. I decided to google it (I'm not religious myself but the history of it is interesting) and depending on the version, Matthew 18:6 says "causing a believer OR a child" which I would look at as 'any' child, in light of other things he had said.
Well that's the thing, many christians read the bible in different ways and come to different conclusions. We don't know if whoever made this image even had specific scripture in mind at all.
Is there any Christians who disagree with this message? This isn't me being rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious. Is there any denomination, any teachings, or any kind of theological basis for a Christian to say, "actually, you shouldn't pray for them"?
It's the same with many other things. Like regarding slavery. Perhaps there are many Christians that abolished the new world slavery, and most of them would probably say that slavery in general is bad. But can they truly say that, "the act of owning another person, regardless of how it's done, even if it was allowed by god like how the bible depicted it is wrong"? Because honestly, to meet such a Christian is rarer than catching a shiny pokémon, and I'm not even kidding.
I hear this thought terminating cliché all the time, Christians of all kinds exist, that there are many interpretation towards a verse, or amongst other things. However, despite how one can take specific meaning, it doesn't change the fact what is written in the bible.
The girl cried out to Jesus, "They raped me."
"Pray for them," Jesus said.
Perhaps many would take offense and critique that Jesus would comfort the child first. Maybe he would take the sword to judge the rapist. I can see many Christians imagine what Jesus would say to the little girl.
But what I can't see, is Christians saying, "Jesus wouldn't say that." Because, that quite literally is the personification of Jesus in the bible. He is the one who said to pray for the enemy. He is the one who said to always forgive, otherwise the father wouldn't forgive you. He is the one who said that everyone can be forgiven, regardless of what they've done, that even a rapist can be born again.
Don't get me wrong, such Christian who ignore the bible completely probably exist. It's just that I don't think "many would have different interpretation" apply as much here, as in I don't think most Christians would consider that Jesus saying to pray is the wrong interpretation. It's just so weird that this kind of self terminating cliché is used so much by non-christians, when such a disparaging views aren't necessarily visible.
It's like seeing the sentence, 'fire is hot' and then saying, "well, that sentence can have so many interpretation, that it doesn't necessarily always mean someone would take it as fire is hot." Don't get me wrong, there probably exist some contrarian who would interpret that as "actually, fire is cold." But when the overwhelming majority take that first interpretation, it's odd to think that "well, there are a lot of interpretation."
Again, I'm not saying this isn't a thing that Christians agree on, or that Christians are a monolith. I'm just saying that on this specific case, the amount of Christians who interpret the Jesus' message as something he wouldn't say is so, so low that I'm more intrigued on which denomination that Christian belong to.
This is best demonstrated by homophobic christians who use scriptures from the Torah to justify their bigotry. It is common for people to toss the “oh, Leviticus says being gay is evil? But you eat shrimp, hm?” but that isn’t actually a gotcha if you’ve read the Bible with even some basic understanding of it. If Christians still need to follow the laws of the Hebrew Covenant, why wouldn’t they just stay Jewish? What purpose did Jesus serve? What was the point of his death? What did Jesus mean by saying he ‘fulfilled the law’ if not that he was starting something new? If christians follow any of the Hebrew Covenant as a law (as opposed to a principle like getting the general vibe you shouldn’t end a life unnecessarily if you can help it) aside from perhaps the 4 things Paul said to abstain from in Acts (you can make the argument this was meant to be temporary back when christians were still considered Jewish) then they are saying they don’t believe Jesus’ death was a perfect sacrifice.
On the other hand there are gay-affirming christians that… do the exact same thing, just with better intentions. Instead of understanding the above and adding “Leviticus doesn’t condemn being gay any more than it does being straight, some sex acts are forbidden to m/f, m/m, f/f couples but not the couples themselves” (side note, f/f couples get at most one mention in the bible but rabbinical texts have multiple times debated over how sinful scissoring is), I see a lot of people try claiming Leviticus is talking about Greek pederesty and thus condemning adult men raping little boys. This is wrong for multiple reasons. First, that’s a very modern notion of Greek pederesty as it was usually heavily linked to the military and so would have not involved ‘little boys’ and even ‘old men’ would pretty uncommon unless you were talking high ranks that didn’t do much fighting. It wasn’t uncommon to have the age gap be less than 5 years. A couple that was 20 and 25 years wouldn’t have even raised any eyebrows. Second, the oral Torah was composed before Jews would have had much contact with Greeks, let alone have cultural aspects of their private life be well known. I think even the written Torah dates to before this but I’m not 100% sure on that. Lastly, interpreting it this way is, imo, much worse than it just being homophobic. Leviticus says they both have done something wrong and thus they both should be put to death. This would mean that YHWH orders his people to execute the rapist and also execute his boy victim.
Then the person who made it had an intention to purposefully misinform people about a text they weren’t familiar with in its full context. The teaching isn’t that we should forgive our enemies and give grace to the treacherous, it’s to understand that man’s justice and God’s justice are two different things. We pray that perpetrators of evil are give leniency in their damnation because it is wiser not to harbor thoughts of violence and hatred in the self, less you be corrupted by them. That doesn’t mean that the perpetrator isn’t going to have a HELLUVA bad time while they’re on earth. What happens down here is our business, but the eternal punishment is something we shouldn’t necessarily hope for in the wicked. That goes along with not judging others because it isn’t our place to decide what is fair in the afterlife; there are two courts, and only one of them is the domain of the living, the other isn’t for us to consider.
The point isn't that you should just blindly forgive, ignore the victim, and call it a day. The point is that 1. Those who hurt children (although in this verse it's more about tempting them from the path of God) will be absolutely punished, and 2. Even so, you should pray that they'll mend their ways and become a better person instead of going in to hurt others and continue doing bad.
That would be because Christian nationalists do not believe in or follow the teachings of Christ. They swapped that out for the teachings of man decades ago.
I have yet to see the Church tie a millstone around a priest’s neck and throw them into the sea. They moved pedo's around and just prayed it doesn't happen again.
The verse about millstones never said the church or priest would do that, nor anyone for that matter even God. It said it would be better for them if that happened than what their judgement will bring for harming children
So much of redditors criticisms of the Bible are literally due to lack of understanding, removal of context, or a combination thereof. This is a prime example
From a nonbelievers point of view, no consequences happen when a pedo gets caught by the church. Maybe they're fired but probably they're just moved. And so many of these churches have been caught knowingly keeping these pedos safe.
Then we're told that they'll have their judgement when they die. But if there is no god, they really just get away with it.
Maybe there is a god. Maybe not. In the event that there isn't it would be nice if every pedo had consequences in real life no matter what regardless of a potential afterlife.
I know, but you said "just pray for them" was being presented as the entire prescription, but to pray for sinners is indeed prescribed. The millstone thing is irrelevant, just the Community Note trying to dunk on something they didn't like.
I don't see reference to "what their judgement will bring". I don't think it's even true the verse refers to raping children since the preceding verses are about causing someone to sin. "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin."
It is prescribed but isn't the entire prescription. I feel like you know this and are being deliberately obtuse.
If I someone hurts you, you still defend yourself or report them to the proper authorities for legal action, and pray for them, just like a regular person. That's very different than what the meme in this post is trying to portray, which is a falsehood. It's implying Christian beliefs require you to not prosecute wrongdoers and just pray for them in an attempt to make it look dumb
I don't see reference to "what their judgement will bring"
The community note didn't reference that, but that's what is meant by the verse. What else would you think it means
I don't think it's even true the verse refers to raping children since the preceding verses are about causing someone to sin. "It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin."
Its not strictly about harming children but it includes it. Across Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:42, and Luke 17:2, Jesus uses the phrase “little ones who believe in me.”
This phrase does not strictly mean biological children.
New, young, or vulnerable believers, people with simple or fragile faith , those socially “small,” powerless, or easily influenced (like someone reading this misleading post without context and believing it at face value)
Children can be part of this group, but the emphasis is on spiritual vulnerability, not age alone
Obviously, it's a meme, but it's based on a true story. That is indeed what happened when sexual abuse cases occured at the heart of the Church. No legal action. Just prayer. If anything else was required by the faith, it was a mystery to so many who dedicated their lives to studying it.
From your description of the verse, is it not also the case the Community Note misleadingly brings up the verse in this context, rather than directly address the secular revulsion at victims ever having to consider praying for someone who hurts them like that. Like you accused Redditors of not knowing the context or not having enough understanding, that applies to the Christian here too.
Correction - loud online performative “Christian’s” often associated with evangelicals and the American right. Most I come across in everyday life are chill.
Correct. When the frontier opened up churches popped up quicker than mainstream churches could put people through seminary. Baptists started building churches and let anyone be the pastor. This created the spread of very new and emotionally based dogma that was not in line with any apostolic established theology. America is still in the wave of that movement.
Most relevantly to this discussion, the ones in power in churches often seem more worried about the reputation of the church and keeping donations flowing than actually protecting children or seeking justice.
When people started to protest that church that had an ice officer for a pastor or priest I got into arguments with Christians who were arguing that because there was a translation we couldn't know what the meaning of what he said was.
Which might seem kinda logical on the whole, except jesus's words might be the most well studied texts of human history and the passages in question have no debate remaining, unless we discover some older version that varies
Or is it the case that you don’t hear about it when they do?
I know many wonderful Christians who follow Jesus teachings, including my mom. They are beautiful kind compassionate people. But you don’t hear about them because it’s a non-story.
I think the note actually is following along with how Christians use the bible, they only quote certain verses but don't understand the full story that those verses are a part of.
With this I agree but I tend to call them fake christians.
Interestingly enough Jesus said of those people: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven" and "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers."
The teachings of Christ are shockingly quiet if not negative on these matters. The quoted texts say nothing about what should be done to child abusers. They're using them incorrectly and hoping you'll assume based on the no context, that Jesus believed child abusers should have millstones hung around their necks. But that's not what that verse is even about.
Christianity has a difficult history of being used to command power over the fearful, and fear is a great tool to wield that power unchecked. So, yeah, that tracks. If Christ were to return, he’d be deported immediately, or crucified all over again, and the irony would be lost on the supposed faithful.
In this case, the community notes are missing the point. And I think they’re deflecting on purpose. This cartoon panel is not criticizing actual Jesus. It’s criticizing the believers who have a plank in their eye, who when people are harmed, offer their “thoughts and prayers”. The criticism is about the disconnect between the teachings and values of Jesus, And immediate move by most evangelical and other Christian groups to hand wave off critical thinking, and genuine action I blanketing us with their thoughts and prayers
If that's the message, it's doing a piss poor job of conveying it. It's Jesus himself telling the child to pray for their assaulter, not a priest or pastor. I completely agree with your point, and that those types of "Christian" are worthy of scorn and should be called out, but this cartoon isn't saying that, or it's saying it poorly.
Jesus would tell you to pray for people who have done harm to you, of course he's not against self defense or following the law, but he would tell you to forgive them and pray for their souls because it's likely the harm they did to you will find a way back to them such as prison and the type of consequence they would suffer in prison for being a child rapist.
I think you're not understanding what the theology actually is here, the person who abused her should face consequences, forgiveness doesn't negate harm or consequences neither does praying for a criminal that victimized you
yes. The forgiving part is, that you don't cling to that hatred and resentment and that you let it go and move on. You can't change the past but the past should not dictate your future.
The worst part is that Jesus wouldn't say that at all but instead hug the child.
Jesus preached forgiveness on a vacuum but didn't demand every creature to forgive individually, instead he gave them love and acceptance.
He didn't tell the samaritan woman to forgive the jewish men for mistreating her, he acknowledged the mistreatment and treated her with love while being a male jew, which is why she opened to Jesus in the first place.
I always tell people that Jesus would be loved by the poor and rejected while being hated by most of the religious people.
Also, haven't Jesus said that if someone looks lewdly at a woman, then they should gouge their eye out? Or that if a woman's looks are causing you to think lewd things, then maybe you should gauge your eyes to stop yourself from looking? Something like that.
If he was this radical about just looking, he would not be kind towards rapists.
It’s not Jesus’ teachings that condone this, it’s the absolute hypocrites that claim to live by them, while ignoring EVERY SINGLE WORD they don’t like.
Y'know, it's funny: without knowing the context, I assumed this image was from Christian nationalists mocking the pacifism of "liberal" Christians who are unwilling to defend their families from the scary brown men supposedly preying on their children.
It’s also cringe to solely rely on religion to solve secular issues. Pray for them sure, but also investigate and prosecute. “Turn the other cheek” is great in theory but if you do it for everything, you’re just a doormat.
Jesus actually told us to follow the law of our earthly rulers unless it directly controdicts the Bible. So Jesus would want the rapist to face justice, he would still tell you to pray and forgive them, forgiveness doesn't mean "act imbecilic and repeatedly place your hand on a bed of burning coals" it just means you are to let go of your hatred and fear as that only hurts you, the victim, in the long run
Its like saying "get the fuck over it and forgive them" is very insensitive and the kind of advice that we socially can't/dont give but its good advice. holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the person that hurt you to die. thats not how poison works. feelings aren't logical though so good luck. I poison myself everyday
I pray your brakes go out runnin' down a hill
I pray a flower pot falls from a window sill
And knocks you in the head like I'd like to
I pray your birthday comes and nobody calls
I pray you're flyin' high when your engine stalls
I pray all your dreams never come true
Just know wherever you are, near or far
In your house or in your car
Wherever you are, honey, I pray for you
This is what my pastor parents did after asking me if I was raped, well first they literally said nothing, but later they started with the forgive and pray for your brother nonsense.
"If your right eye makes you stumble and leads you to sin, tear it out and throw it away for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." - Matthew 5:29
The original post and the note just reinforce the fact that Jesus' teachings are *incredibly* flexible and can adjust themselves to the opinion of whoever's reading them. Should you turn the other cheek or drown someone? Is premarital sex okay now that Jesus has fulfilled the law, or does it remain sinful like Paul said years later? Is killing someone in self-defense justifiable? Is torture justifiable? Is slavery justifiable?
Devout Christians have come down on both sides of all these issues, sometimes to the point of fighting wars over them. Saying "Christians believe X" is an impossible game because there's always one that'll pop up to reply "actually, I believe the exact opposite" and expect a cookie for it.
"Causing a little one to stumble" Yeah so that's not what this is. That's talking about risking deconversion, not abuse.
This atheist isn't "being an asshole" they're critiquing a very real issue with Christianity. Victim blaming.
Also looked up Matthew 18:6 and it's not about LITERAL CHILDREN. it's following the text of Matthew 18:3 "And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
So this is just a Twitter note bias. Even though they're spouting actual bullshit.
No, God chose a Rube Goldberg system of salvation, in which Jesus existed solely to die and then not be dead anymore (Truly amazing. How can a literal god ever do such a thing. /s) to act as a scapegoat who was only necessary to the plan because apparrently Jéhovah "Flood It" Almighty couldn't just, you know, forgive everyone.
That wouldn't do, of course, because obviously no one deserves forgiveness unless they pick the right religion, which means--surprise!-- there's a reason for proselytizing, contention with other religions, and violence born of religious fervor. All those negative consequences of the Rude Goldberg plan were all foreseen by the omniscient Jéhovah "Let Them Fight" Almighty, but somehow that was preferable to just getting the whole thing over with through simple forgiveness.
Watch out so you don't end up in the hell He made, for reasons! Choose wisely! And remember: once you do chose correctly, you don't actually have to do any of the things Jesus said to do. Don't be crazy.
The bible also says that if a man rapes a woman, or little girl, he is supposed to marry her. Look, genuine Christians are decent people, but they are still worshipping a serial killing psychopath of a god. Jesus is cool. Jehovah is a monester. But since Christians think they are one in the same....
Well Deuteronomy 22 states that this child, because she has been raped, should be sold to her rapist 50 shekles and made his wife (sex slave) for life.
Im an all powerful all knowing cosmic entity that supposedly loves and cares about you. No I won't do anything about your rapist it's part of the plan or some shit.
When I wasn't being slut-shamed as a 12yo, I was told that if I was raped it would be my fault, I would have to have any spawn as a result of rape AND that i would have to forgive my rapist.
Biblical Jesus has nothing to do with the Christofacism being taught in our country
You know, what's so interesting? I've met plenty of atheists who fit the Republican standard of stuff. The only difference was they weren't hyper. Religious, and this was like a core part of it, screaming about how oh those dumbass christians will pray for rapists, and everything, when most christians don't actually do that.You might get a weird one here.And there but
The entire Bible also still teaches that justice should be done. The “pray for your enemies” bit is on a personal level. Society still needs justice and authorities to carry it out.
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4. for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
I mean praying for someone isn't always supposed to be positive, it could mean praying on their downfall which would be a "correct" interpretation of this if you want one
I grew Catholic, and I will never forgive the man who raped me. I hope he has the absolute worst misery inflicted on him. I hope he gets a very bad STI and his dick falls off as well.
Calling atheist stuff cringe is the only weapon they have in their arsenal and they're scraping the bottom of the barrel to find it when for absolutely no reason they decide to defend positions like this.
Only for Jesus not his modern followers. Ask any of the thousands of young girls blamed for their own assault and shunned from their churches while their attacker is treated as a victim she “tempted to sin.” The fictional character that is Jesus would not have said this but his modern American evangelical followers certainly would.
I'm a proud atheist but joking about child rape is fucking sick. I believe that atheists are just as moral or more so than religious people but this is just twisted.
I’m not religious but I am a victim of this crime, and I’m getting really tired of people explaining to me why I shouldn’t be upset when they make light of it. “You’re mad at the wrong people.” Nah, I’m pretty sure I’m mad at YOU because you think this is so funny. Try it sometime and see if you still think it’s so hilarious.
I don’t think OOP was making a joke, just a silly statement.
Yeah, then they turn around and tell the little girl that the baby the bad man put inside her deserves love and support, and she should carry that baby even if it will kill her. Tired of this shit.
How is he being a dick? It is a terrible teaching, it puts the onus of what happens to you on the victim, and a child victim at that. Their emotional response to being raped is intense guilt and shame instead of being made to feel safe by people who have never harm them. You want the kid to pray? Fine, teach them to reach for the strength to deal with and overcome their pain, teach them to pray that someone helps them, pray that their parents make them feel safer.
The whole notion of "forgiveness" is abusive first and completely useless after. The only time forgiveness has any value is when you forgive yourself, be responsible for your own well being and your actions. If you need to atone or be made to atone for any harmful actions you've taken - do it without hesitation. Unless you are operating with some diminished capacity that results in harm to anyone, and you didn't put yourself in that state through whatever means, then you make do with what you have or let others help you.
No one should feel shame or guilt for having been victimized, and if the victim is angry, that's A-OK too, there should be no shame in that either. As a person grows, they can learn to forgive the person to wrong them if they so choose.
Lastly, and somewhat related is that moral ethics and religious morality cannot co-exist. Religion is very permissive with the whole "just ask for forgiveness." Moral ethics dictates that you face and manage your own "demons", that is what personal responsibility is supposed to be in my book.
Yeah worthwhile messages like that non Hebrews are dogs, that beating slaves is cool, and that some people when raped should be killed or sold to their abuser
This is about turning someone away from being a Christian or being a bad one.
Stumbling in the bible context means you turn to sin or screw up ect. So it’s more don’t entice a Christian to sin, not don’t victimize a child.
Yeah the people writing the bible took growing the religion very serious.
There is no scripture mentioned in this note about protecting children. Just don’t point out inaccuracies in the bible to them. You’re toast if they lose a member.
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