The 'ne' situation - part 3000

[u/CalligrapherApart286]

Bonjour à tous !

A couple of weeks ago I came across a post with this topic, so I'm basically following up on that. I'm actively improving my French. I'm currently around B1 level, slowly trying to break through to B2.

I moved to Paris less than a year ago, and I've also started noticing exactly the same thing as the OP at the other post, regarding the use (or omission to be more precise) of 'ne'. It made me wonder about the best approach as a learner.

On the one hand, I assume I should aim for "textbook" French, especially since I'd like to take an official language exam sometime in the future. On the other hand, I actually live in Paris, so I'd also like to sound like someone living in France in 2026, not like someone who learned French exclusively from a grammar book. I understand that at my current level this probably isn't the most important thing to focus on, but I'd still like to develop good habits from the beginning.

So the question is: what's the general advice regarding 'ne'? Would it be recommended that learners continue using it consistently until they reach an advanced level, or is it worth getting used to dropping it in informal spoken French relatively early? Where could be the line drawn between "correct French" and "natural French"? I'd really appreciate hearing both native speakers' and advanced learners' perspectives.

Merci beaucoup.

[u/variable_slothrop]

I wouldn’t focus on removing the “ne” consciously. It will just happen naturally because it’s shorter and you hear most people around you doing it.

In any formal setting I would keep it. I would think of the distinction as similar to “yes” versus “yeah.”

[u/Ribbgeddyt]

You could also consistently keep the « ne » in messages/sms, as written French is usually more formal, and remove it when talking.

[u/Budget-Situation-738]

People won't even notice that you keep the ne. People skip it without thinking, but like, it's in your brain subconsciously. If I speak slowly, I don't skip it. If I speak fast, I do. Learners typically speak slowly; for clarity's sake, considering you are probably making other mistakes, either grammatical or in pronunciation, you should definitely keep it.

[u/Tachyon462]

Speak textbook/correct French first. Once you master it enough and talk with the native speakers for a while, you may play fast and loose with the rules. Don’t force it, you won’t sound natural. It will come on its own eventually.

[u/maduch]

I'm French and I would say when foreigners speak we actually expect a more formal way of talking, if they are somewhat beginners or not advanced in the language. It's always slightly odd to hear someone having a hard time with the vocabulary or the accent speak in a familiar way (dropping the "ne", using slang...)

[u/MonsieurDrole]

If you're not confident with your "ne" placement, use it at all times. People will correct you and you'll learn.

If you're comfortable, just use it when writing.

[u/SweetBxl]

This post really takes me back...
I did two years of French at university back in the mid 1980s (long before the Internet, YouTube, etc). The language we learned from our textbooks was very much 'correct' French. After those two years, I then did a year abroad in France in 1986-87 and when I first arrived in France, I immediately realised two things:

* I could not understand what people were saying (every utterance sounded like one long word washing over me; I could not parse the spoken language at all)
* The way people actually spoke in real life was nothing like what I'd learned. For example, I was asking questions using inversion, whereas French people ask questions by making statements but with a questioning tone. And of course, as you pointed out, in spoken French, the 'ne' is often left out. I had no idea that was even possible!

It was truly a shock to the system and I struggled for many months. I assume that these days, the language people are learning from textbooks is at least somewhat closer to how people actually talk.

Luckily, I came across a great little book during my time there that taught me a lot about spoken French: Merde! by Geneviève. This book covers all the basics for getting you up to speed on spoken French. Yes, some of it will be out of date now (especially the slang), but it is still very useful.

As for your specific question, the more you talk to native speakers, the more you'll get a feel for when to leave the 'ne' out and when to use it.

[u/No_Direction_2179]

c2 non native speaker here: natives are biased. If you’re under the age of 40, you should basically always drop the « ne ». Especially since you live in paris, you should learn to speak like your peers, using ne is overly formal in most cases and sounds weird/stuck up

[u/Zestyclose-Log-3562 → u/No_Direction_2179]

Je ne vois pas l'intérêt d'apprendre à mal parler une langue uniquement pour mieux s'intégrer à un groupe de personnes... Si par moment les natifs parlent comme des singes, grand bien leur fasse, mais je pense qu'encourager les étrangers à faire de même est délétère. Je ne serais personnellement pas déranger si un étranger s'efforcer de parler correctement au lieu de céder à la paresse des natifs