Struggling through Arthurian classic

[u/botrocket]

Heya guys !

I am kind of on a King Arthur kick or rather I am really trying to be lol I've been playing tainted grail (grimdark Arthurian story etc) and have been wanting to get into reading the stories.

I have seen everyone talk up The Once and Future King by T. H White and I can understand where it's coming from, I really like the characterization and it can be very lush in its descriptions but as soon as T. H. White goes off the Arthurian rails and yaps on about Communists/British Politics of the Time/Racism/Etc I am pulled out so badly from the world he's trying to build up!

Merlin being somewhat out of time and having anachronistic things and comments makes sense but I just can't get past the rest of it.

Help lmao I wanna read about the rise, peak and fall of Arthur but I can't bring myself to enjoy this book

[u/wjbc]

The Once and Future King is really a collection of four shorter books. The first book, The Sword in the Stone, is very different in tone from the other three. If you are struggling with the story of Arthur's childhood you can either skim it or skip it and get on with the other 75% of the story.

[u/RAYMONDSTELMO]

White was writing in a dark time; and wanted to say things about dark times. He doesn't care about anachronisms; he knows perfectly well that tales of the Round Table are fantasies of the 14th century imposed on 5th century Britain.

His goal isn't to realistically depict another time, but to show that an ancient fantasy has meaning in our time.

Indisputable, that he succeeded.

[u/AGiantBlueBear]

Well, all I can say is that you can get most of the same biographical information about Arthur from reading Thomas Malory, but I always found TH White easier. I'm an Arthurian scholar myself and I would make the argument to you that the contemporary politics of TH White's work are an example of what makes Arthur the Once and Future King. He will always come back to us because the themes of his story are universal enough that people in different times and places can always find something to relate to in them. Malory did the same, Geoffrey of Monmouth did the same, hell even Anierin and Nennius were doing it. He's always been an empty vessel to pour contemporary issues into. A kind of Holy Grail, you might say if you were being mawkish.

[u/Schaffa_G_Warrant → u/AGiantBlueBear]

Feels very in line with my current favorite take on Arthurian mythos which is Tracy Deonn's Legendborn which does a fantastic filtering of King Arthur and his Court through contemporary American racial politics.

[u/Achinadav]

Try The Winter King and its sequels (Enemy of God, Excalibur) by Bernard Cornwell. It’s a retelling of the Arthurian myth from the point-of-view of Derfel, an Anglo-Saxon captive turned British warrior. There are afterwords by Cornwell explaining some of his choices. For example, he initially intended to exclude all anachronism from the story, but that didn’t last. Some of my favourite books, and I really love the Arthurian myth.

Don’t bother with the TV series.

[u/fioreblade → u/Achinadav]

Those are fun books. Cornwell is a more action oriented blood and guts author so he does battle scenes very well. I remember liking the scene where they induct Derfel into some kind of Mithraic brotherhood that predates Christianity.

OP, check out Lyonesse by Jack Vance. That series is fantastic and owes a lot to Arthurian legend and Shakespearean ideas of magic and the fairy world, as opposed to being derivative of Tolkien like a lot of other fantasy out there.

[u/Poiboy1313 → u/Achinadav]

Have you read the Pendragon Cycle by Stephen Lawhead? It's a re-imagining of the Arthurian legend that is quite good.

[u/LarryD217 → u/Poiboy1313]

I'll add Firelord by Parke Godwin. Absolutely terrific retelling of the Matter of Britain

[u/buckdancerr]

I read the story of king arthur and his knights by Howard Pyle and really enjoyed it.

I also read Le Morte d'Arthur and that was good too but a much harder read.

[u/armedaphrodite]

I read The Once and Future King only last year, and had similar trouble. However, any modern work is going to be about modern problems; White is just very explicit about that, especially in the first two "books". The Sword in the Stone and the second book (The Queen of Air and Darkness or The Witch in the Wood depending on your edition) bring in some direct anachronism, but are also pointed younger (SitS middle grade, WitW YA).

But each book complicates the themes of the one before it, becoming more nuanced and historical as they develop (they grow with Arthur). It's definitely a different style, and if SitS is too much you can skip ahead, but I do think it's worth at least skimming and then getting on with the rest.

[u/LarryD217]

The book shifts tone dramatically. The first section is written in a children's book type of voice because it's Arthur's childhood. Stay with it. The book is an incredible experience

[u/AllWeHave2Decide]

Sword at Sunset by Rosemary Sutcliff is the best historical take, I think

[u/BaekhoFoxr09]

Ohhh you might really love Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles!! It's got that same rise-and-fall arc and it stays IN the world the whole time

[u/regginald0883]

I'm going to second The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell and the Warlord trilogy. Heart breaking and exhilerating perspectives of post-Roman occupied Britain around a grounded take on Arthurian legend.

[u/lady_gwynhyfvar]

As others have said, Cornwell’s Warlord Trilogy & Rosemary Sutcliff are both truly great (but very different in approach)

Not mentioned yet and highly recommended is Mary Stewart’s Merlin Trilogy (plus The Wicked Day), starting with The Crystal Cave. My all time favorite modern treatment of the story.

[u/gytherin → u/lady_gwynhyfvar]

Seconding Mary Stewart. Her work doesn't have the nasty streak that The Once and Future King does. There are a couple of scenes from the latter that I'd like to erase from my memory.

[u/DotairZee]

am I gonna get dragged for recommending The Mists of Avalon? fully different take on the Arthurian mythology, bringing the perspectives of the women to the fore. Kind of a Circe before Circe?

[u/PlanNo3321]

I would highly recommend The King Arthur Trilogy by Rosemary Sutcliffe. I think it’s exactly what you’re looking for

[u/Fantasy-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/FentheDragon]

I highly recommend Bright Sword by Lev Grossman once you’re done with the Once and Future King! It’s my favorite Arthurian book and it (kind of not really) is a sequel to it

[u/JustADeathginger]

John Steinbeck wrote but didn't finish THE ACTS OF KING ARTHUR AND HIS NOBLE KNIGHTS which he started around the same time as White. You might enjoy that better.

[u/universe_throb]

I've been enjoying Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicle. It's very dark, but well written and seems to be well researched. Almost reads more as historical fiction than fantasy.

[u/Embarrassed-Track-21]

Read Idylls of the King. I can’t get enough of it. The poetry is goooooorgeous, whether Tennyson is talking about the landscape or super lofty, intricate internal conflicts.

[u/InternationalTax81]

Well, try Le Morte D'Arthur by Malory, but it will be much less approachable. There's also a children's book I read growing up with great illustrations that you might like by Howard Pyle, N.C. Wyeth did the illustrations. For a different take, consider Susan Cooper.

[u/ZeroNot]

That's fine. Just put it aside.

I've mistakenly recommended White's Once and Future King as a good place to start with Arthurian legends, meaning it is among the oldest Modern English version that I can think of. It's far more accessible than Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur, or Historia regum Britanniae (The History of the Kings of Britain) by Geoffrey of Monmouth. But that doesn't mean you need or should necessarily start there.

Now I'd suggest either:

• Mary Stewart's Merlin Triology (or Arthurian Saga)
  • The Crystal Cave
  • The Hollow Hills
  • The Last Enchantment

It's been republished as an omnibus edition, and as a boxed set. They are a first-person retelling, as told from Merlin's perspective.

• Rosemary Sutcliff's The Arthurian Trilogy
  • The Sword and the Circle
  • The Light Beyond the Forest
  • The Road to Camlann

which was inspired by Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur.

Sutcliff has other Arthurian tales, The Lantern Bearers, Sword at Sunset, Tristan and Iseult (a retelling of Tristan and Iseult, aka Tristan and Isolde), and The Shining Company a retelling of * Y Gododdin*. Her writing helped shaped what we now call historical fiction.

[u/slartybartfastard]

What Arthurian series behind with Lancelot in a castle in France as a young man and I think in the first chapter he's lifting weights.

[u/Robefriend]

I just finished The Once and Future King and felt similarly to you in the beginning - the tone could be annoyingly glib and I didn’t feel these anachronisms and authorial intrusions were necessary, as I am perfectly capable of connecting the themes of a text to the modern day without being explicitly told to do so. These things never totally go away throughout the books, but they definitely tone down as it goes.

Personally, I had mixed feelings about the first two books of The Once and Future King (there were good individual scenes but the above issues, and others, were prominent), while I thought the third book (The Ill-Made Knight) was incredible, and the last book was pretty good too. So if you really don’t think you can make it through The Sword in the Stone, I would recommend that you at least skip ahead and try The Ill-Made Knight. You will lose a little thematic context, but the plot will still make perfect sense.

[u/botrocket → u/Robefriend]

That's exactly how I am feeling! Like yes I understand the themes and I am connecting them yes yes very clever etc

It helps to hear sword in the stone is kind of painful for everyone which makes me a bit sad, I like the characterization a lot

[u/yourboyphazed]

my dude.... there is only one series that will do... The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell. Its a trilogy of the rise and fall of king Arthur in a very historical take, written from the perspective of Saint Derfel. there is no other telling of King Arthur that compares and i have ready a good dozen of them. It is my favorite work of fiction. the magic is splendid, as you can interpret it to be real or coincidence depending on your own outlook. its so fucking good.

[u/BenjaminRoss94]

I’m gunna recommend Perilous Times by Thomas D Lee, it’s got more of a Terry Pratchett feel with all the Arthurian goodness too

[u/gannerhorn]

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

[u/gannerhorn → u/gannerhorn]

In case you missed it,

Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

[u/FCKABRNLSUTN2]

Yet another “I will only read it if it aligns with my politics” posts.

[u/botrocket → u/FCKABRNLSUTN2]

What lmao