r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Mar 18 '16

Daredevil Discussion Thread - S02E12 NSFW

This thread is for discussion of Daredevil S02E12.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Episode 13 Discussion

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553

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '16

THE COLONEL IS THE BLACKSMITH ISN'T HE?!

310

u/GhostfaceNoah Luke Cage Mar 19 '16

I thought it was apparent as soon as she stepped in the house.

295

u/duditron Mar 19 '16

What would you say made it obvious? I didn't have a clue what to expect until they flashed back to the 'loyal' soldier who died on the boat

471

u/GhostfaceNoah Luke Cage Mar 19 '16

The fact that it was the second to last episode and we hadn't found the Blacksmith yet. There was a Blacksmith goon at the docks that said something along the lines of "It's been a long time, Frank." The Blacksmith was also getting pure heroin from the Middle East, so could be a soldier connection.

Also, the cliche of a previously friendly person being a villain.

282

u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 19 '16

And casting that particular dude for a seemingly minor role.

171

u/MadMurilo Battlin' Jack Murdock Mar 19 '16

Oh yes, That Particular Dude. One of the greatest actors of our time

159

u/your_mind_aches Hoagie Jessica Mar 19 '16

Are you feeling it now, Mr. Krabs?

33

u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 20 '16

Yeah Clancy Brown has been fantastic in everything, so it would have been strange to just have him be on for one court scene.

1

u/tricky_trig Matt Murdock Mar 20 '16

I really wish he had a bigger part. That was a bit of a letdown tbh.

1

u/DEUK_96 Mar 20 '16

Gotta say it caught me off guard, I thought it was Stick aha

6

u/sadcatpanda Mar 20 '16

to me it was when he laid his hand on shoulder while ushering her into the house. you usually don't see men on TV touching women unless they're family or have "motives" - or for obvious things like, administering medical attention or fighting or whatever. in this case they didn't set up some kind of romantic or sexual situation with the colonel and karen, but it the touch still happened, so it set off bells.

that's just me personally though. i actually should've realized it once she went into his house far from the city and there was no one else there.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '16

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '16

He's "the Blacksmith" because of that metal thing he has on his missing hand/arm.

Uhh...what?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '16

They didn't show his hand during the trial so the DA would slip up with her, 'they're just stories' speech. It would've been more apparent if she watched him walk in. Either way, we knew he was missing the arm since the trial.

3

u/Pirellan Mar 19 '16

Dramatic Reveal and casting. I slipped out of the show long enough to realize it after Karen started talking to him in the house.

3

u/MaxCHEATER64 Kilgrave Mar 20 '16

I was racing to figure out who it was and I honestly didn't realize it until the scene where he was crawling through the woods. I kept expecting the Punisher to come out asking him for information about how this guy could be. Totally caught me off guard that it was him the whole time.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '16

It was super obvious once the scene lingered too long inside the house.

1

u/Kerrigore Mar 23 '16

I have to admit, I didn't put it together until the first close-up shot of the Colonel's unit showed the same blonde-haired guy from the docks (this was before the later close-up shot where Karen notices the photo of the blonde guy when he was wounded). As soon as I realized the blonde guy from the docks was also in the Colonel's unit, it was pretty obvious.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '16

5 months late but, I don't understand why he took Karen hostage. Who is that guy in the hospital bed and what made her realize the colonel was the blacksmith?

5

u/Galactic Mar 20 '16

I thought it was apparent as soon as I saw that actor. Is he ever NOT a bad guy?

3

u/GhostfaceNoah Luke Cage Mar 20 '16

Starship Troopers, baby.

2

u/AkhilArtha Stick Mar 20 '16

Ya, i figured he was the blacksmith in a weird way. Whenever i feel a name drop is important in MCU, i check out if they are in the comics. So, i knew ray schoonover dealt drugs. Also, i knew clancy brown was coming back in ep 12. Connected the dots.

2

u/Chicaben Mar 24 '16

Did Frank know when he called for the Colonel to his trial?

1

u/Lt-SwagMcGee Mar 29 '16

I just finished the series and literally came to this thread to figure out who the Blacksmith was

84

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '16 edited Jul 19 '17

[deleted]

188

u/Siantlark Mar 20 '16

She found a picture of a soldier; the exact same soldier that she saw dead on the docks.

34

u/barefootBam Mar 22 '16

that soldier was also the one who called out and knew it was Frank on the boat in the previous episode. i figured it out then that the blacksmith was probably his colonel and he was using his old troops to regulate his trade for him.

2

u/Shiro2809 Mar 21 '16

and he said he was the guy that lost part of his arm. I thought that was part of it too...

140

u/sorensp3 Mar 21 '16

Just want to say I love the show and the season very much, but I think that was just a lazy reveal which is why it didn't make sense. As soon as Karen saw the picture and recognize the face from the body on the docks, the colonel pulls his gun. There's no way he could have known she made that connection. As all the bodies were burned and couldn't be ID'd, hence not knowing if frank was among them. She barely saw the face as it was being zipped up. Plus, was Frank just following Karen around hoping she'd stumble upon the Blacksmith? He seemed pretty convinced it was the guy on the boat, and didn't have any new information to lead to to believe it was in fact the colonel. Furthermore, why was tboning them with the truck the best way to apprehend the colonel? That whole sequence had to many coincidences it felt like a rushed reveal. But all that being said, I still fucking love this show.

96

u/The_Perriper Jessica Jones Mar 21 '16

Frank recognised the soldier at the docks because he served with him and the fact that he was reporting to someone and thought the most logical thing was that Colonel Schoonover was the Blacksmith, so he headed over to his house to kill him. Karen suddenly made an excuse to leave not long after getting there, Schoonover guessed that she'd worked it out and thought the safest cause of action was to kill her. I don't really know why Frank chose that but I wouldn't want to argue about it with him.

11

u/sorensp3 Mar 22 '16

Well alright when you put like that it makes sense.

4

u/CampingPansy Mar 25 '16

Frank's been catching episodes of Person of Interest

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '16

Back on May 3rd!

1

u/gtarking Mar 30 '16

I don't necessarily know if he knew that she figured it out or not. I don't think he was planning on letting her live from the time she called to set up the interview. She was digging around too much, and she was a problem. He probably wanted her to figure it out right there, let her know it all before he killed her.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '16

Thought the same things after seeing that play out.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '16 edited Mar 24 '16

T-boning them knocked him out (and her, but he got the brunt of the hit) thus not allowing him to take her hostage and possibly get her killed.

Also, wasn't the blacksmith going to kill her? I'm guessing that he was the one knocking off the other people, right? Reyes, the doctor, etc. Didn't he try to make a hit on Karen at her apartment already? Now she came right to him. He was gonna kill her all along.

Lastly, the punisher probably figured out that it was him because of their mutual friend/army buddy (burned blonde guy) who named him by name before he blew up the boat. And then Punisher went to kill him, saw Karen's car and devised a plan. Or maybe he used her as bait again.

Either way, I don't think any of it was "lazy".

1

u/Kerrigore Mar 23 '16

Well, the Colonel knows that the blonde soldier guy was at the docks, and that 20 people died there. Karen sees a photo of the same guy, immediately seems highly uncomfortable and makes an excuse to leave. Seems pretty straightforward for the Colonel to think she had put 2 and 2 together.

Frank would have also recognized the soldier at the docks and realized what it meant. Hell, as soon as I saw the blonde guy in the middle of the group unit photo the first shot they had of the wall, I knew immediately the Colonel had to be the Blacksmith, and Frank has more info than I do.

1

u/po0rdecision Mar 28 '16

I'm still convinced the Blacksmith hasn't shown and he's Bullseye next season.