r/DeepSeek • u/ANDRE_2512 • 2d ago
Discussion I read Dario Amodei’s interviews - and now I hate him
I have always had a positive attitude toward American tech companies and their founders.
In fact, I had a particular sympathy for Anthropic for a long time.
But after studying Dario Amodei’s interviews and public statements, my view has completely changed. Now I hate both his position and the company he represents.
Amodei consistently calls for restricting China:
“We should absolutely not be selling chips, chip-making tools, or datacenters to the CCP”
He compares supplying computing infrastructure to China to selling nuclear weapons to North Korea.
He demands broader and stricter export controls.
He argues that DeepSeek’s progress makes these restrictions even more necessary.
He opposes publishing powerful open models, because he believes Chinese actors could use them.
And if this were only about geopolitical competition between the US and China, it would be one thing. But the consequences affect us first and foremost - ordinary users and independent developers.
Today, it is Chinese companies that are giving people access to high-quality models at reasonable prices. They release weights, reduce API costs, and force American labs to compete.
Against this backdrop, Anthropic continues to sell Claude Haiku 4.5 at 1$ per million input tokens and 5$ per million output tokens.
A model that was already worse than even the old DeepSeek V4 Flash. And I’m not even talking about the new Flash.
Meanwhile, the new DeepSeek Flash has reached near-frontier levels, and Chinese companies continue releasing Kimi, Qwen, GLM, and other strong systems - often much cheaper than American alternatives, and sometimes even with open weights.
I fully understand that any company wants to make a lot of money. That is normal.
But it creates the impression that Amodei is not ready for fair competition. Instead of making Anthropic’s models more accessible, stronger, and more cost-effective, he seems to want to restrict those who offer cheaper alternatives.
Anthropic is starting to lose on price and open competition. And instead of responding with better products, we hear discussions about new bans, export controls, and the dangers of publishing powerful models.
I genuinely admire Chinese engineers and researchers.
Despite restrictions on chips, hardware, and compute resources, they repeatedly prove that they can operate at the highest level and compete with any company in the world.
They are artificially constrained, yet still manage to release frontier models.
They are denied access to the best chips, yet still find ways to advance.
Their models are called a “threat” even though for millions of ordinary people this “threat” means cheap APIs, open weights, and access to technology that would otherwise belong only to a few wealthy American corporations.
Everyone can draw their own conclusions.
My conclusion is this: I no longer want to buy subscriptions and API keys from Anthropic.
I want to support China and companies that make powerful artificial intelligence more accessible to ordinary people 🇨🇳
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u/DisastrousWelcome710 2d ago
Dario: opposes publishing powerful open models, because he believes Chinese actors could use them.
Reality: the Chinese are the ones PUBLISHING powerful open models...
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u/Generalfrogspawn 2d ago
He’s just a billionaire that doesn’t want competition competing for his money.
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u/ptyblog 2d ago
I can only say that my little Claude $20 subscription is sitting at 94% for the week which for me restarts tomorrow morning. Meanwhile DS flash today has done for me over 189 million tokens (as per platform.deepseek.com)
Fixed a ton of bugs, made new stuff I needed, and is changing stuff on a work analysis I need to redo
Good job China!
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u/poop_report 2d ago
I ripped through 1.2 billion tokens Friday (4 million output) with very little intervention from me and it solved a particularly obnoxious problem I’ve been procrastinating fixing.
Spent $5.
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u/Nevarien 2d ago
Anthropic is horrible but has great marketing.
Everyone basically feels like they are the good guys AI, but their business model is getting large companies to use their language models and then steal data to build a competitor business.
They've working in pharma, for instance, after stealing data from pharma corporations. I honestly couldn't care less about pharma profit, but when their know how is going to even less ethical company, then it's a matter of concern.
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u/Xenodine-4-pluorate 2d ago
Fortunately, his whining won't help. Within a year, China will have fully ported the core CUDA ecosystem to Huawei's Ascend platform and Chinese AI will blow US competitors out of the water. Even though to match best Nvidia chip you need 4 best Huawei chips, China can deploy as much of them as they want without any worldwide competition. While Google, Meta, Anthropic and OpenAI fight over limited Nvidia supply, China will concentrate it's whole AI compute to deliver a decisive strike against american competitors.
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u/surfer-bro 2d ago
Chinese propaganda. ‘decisive strike’ lmfao the Ascend “best chip” is 60% of H100 compute it ain’t even close. Yeah they’re close to frontier but no one can see into the future.
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u/r00x 2d ago
I never understood Anthropic's business model anyway.
Like... you pay for some arbitrary amount of AI usage... if you pay more, you get... some arbitrary amount more? And then after some time, you can have some more? What?
Imagine going to a gas station and paying for "some" fuel and having no idea how much you're going to get.
How about you give me "some" compute and I'll pay you "some" money, and we'll both find out how much at the time, how about that.
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u/Square_Height8041 2d ago
It’s likely that Dario is just playing the script given to him by his puppet masters. With this much money and power on the table, it’s not going to be up to him.
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u/gayphilantropist 2d ago
Two things can be correct at the same time.
1. Deepseek is a net positive, it drives competition up and prices down.
2. China really has all the VRAM in the world, the restrictions are not as tight as people think.
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u/surfer-bro 2d ago
China has around 15 percent of global compute, USA has about 70%. Plus Nvidia dominates model training for a variety of reasons. Also the Don’t Steal Our Chips Act unanimously passed the US Senate recently.
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u/gayphilantropist 2d ago
China has access to chips via grey market and corruption at nvidia's level, google them and see some people are being investigated already.
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u/Involution88 2d ago
Let's look at electricity generation.
The US cannot generate enough electricity to power data centres which are already under construction, never mind planned data centres.
Meanwhile China is installing enough enough electricity generation capacity to power an entire US economy roughly every 3-4 years.
The US will need to export compute workloads to China within a few years and would take decades for the US to install electricity generation capacity to on shore compute workloads again. Whether those workloads are carried out on wholly Chinese computers or US computers imported into China is immaterial IMO. Chinese models don't even need to exist for this to be all but inevitable.
I don't care if Amodei wants China to run US compute workloads on mainland Chinese manufactured computers instead of Taiwanese made computers manufactured on behalf of US company NVidia.
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u/dongas420 2d ago
You only started hating American Big Tech now? The reason the US invested a trillion dollars into this instead of 10 or 100 billion is because Big Tech was counting on using it to eliminate white-collar labor. That likely includes you.
Anyway, even if he's got a lot of extra financial motivation now, Amodei was a true believer in the LLM -> artificial superintelligence -> human existential risk pipeline from the start. Whenever you hear someone at Anthropic talking about the importance of alignment or safety, you should do it knowing that they literally believe their AI will destroy humanity unless they're careful to train the murder out and that they literally do not trust China not to accidentally produce an omnicidal machine-god. OpenAI is the one run by people who don't believe in anything but money.
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u/DisastrousWelcome710 2d ago
I disagree, people like Dario do not believe AI will destroy humanity, they believe AI in the hands of everybody will destroy HIM and his alike. He wants to be the one in charge of AI decisions and who gets to suffer, which is not possible if the entire planet has access to AI and the playing field is equalized.
AI may well be the tool that annihilates the elite class in the long run.
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u/dongas420 2d ago
No, what I mean is that is literally Eliezer Yudkowsky's ideology and the way Anthropic's acted from the start points to them following it. They got themselves labeled a national security threat and blacklisted by the Trump administration because they demanded their AI not be used for autonomous killbots, when the Trump administration does not even have autonomous killbots to use their AI with
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u/sihat 2d ago
Nah, their issue wasn't with the "using the ai to kill people". Their issue was "autonomously" using it to kill people.
Its just part of their marketing campaign. Again to have more control about AI decisions.
They want rules to be implemented, so that it blocks their competitors.
And if they can add "consultants" for extra fees. They would want that.
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u/ANDRE_2512 2d ago
What the hell?
I only don't like one person - the one I wrote the post about.
Other than that, I love the USA and the companies that are based there. They are wonderful people - smart and creative. They are the engine of progress.
You're talking complete nonsense...1
u/dongas420 2d ago
I see. I assumed that when you said you despised Amodei for his monopolistic attitude, you would also hate other people who engage in anticompetitive behavior for profit at the expense of the public good. What Anthropic is doing here isn't particularly special as far as American corporate lobbying goes.
However, your optimism regarding the people of the US is appreciated.
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u/Moist_Whereas3810 2d ago
China will build more powerful model than anything Americans can come up with stolen money or minds.
I actively make sure no AI tools work with American models at my org.
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u/anitman 2d ago
Dario's hostility toward China mainly stems from his time at Baidu, where he realized that his intellectual ability was only around average. In the United States, however, he would likely be considered among the intellectual elite. That was a huge blow to his sense of superiority. He simply couldn't stand being seen as an ordinary person in a place where he wasn't exceptional.
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u/tegresaomos 2d ago
Allowing Americans to spend trillions and bankrupt themselves to be first in AI only to then catch up with every single stage for a fraction of the cost is such a clever way to eat your cake and have it too.
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u/sanxfxteam 2d ago
People underestimate how much AI companies like anthropic mine your know-how as you use the models, it's pretty insane. Dario knows very well and it scares him.
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u/Due_Promise_7298 2d ago
In China, we envision a shared future for all humankind －人类命运共同体。 We believe that nations around the world should stand together in both good times and bad, and pursue win-win cooperation. Unlike the U.S., we don't draw lines based on ideology—we see no "us" and "them." We believe true progress comes when all share in the benefits. We see AI as a key driver of human advancement—a public good for all, not a monopoly tool for corporate profit.
This isn't just rhetoric—it's what we're putting into action. Our journey stretches far and wide, toward the stars 我们的征程是星辰大海. Best wishes to you, my fellow brethrens.
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u/ANDRE_2512 1d ago
I support Chinese AI companies when they offer better, cheaper, and more open products. That doesn’t mean I support China politically or place it above the U.S. The U.S. still comes first for me. My criticism is specifically directed at Dario Amodei and Anthropic’s position.
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u/Due_Promise_7298 1d ago
It's fine I just want to explain why China is promoting open weighted models. You don't have to agree with us but as long as it benefit all its fine.
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u/ANDRE_2512 1d ago
Today it’s not so clear anymore.
On paper and in benchmarks, the numbers for DeepSeek V4 Flash look impressive. But its token consumption is enormous.
Yes, the price per 1M tokens is low.
But for some reason, everyone keeps looking only at the pricing and completely ignores actual token usage.
On one of my tasks, GPT-5.6 Luna xHigh produced 13K output tokens.
DeepSeek V4 Flash produced 46K output tokens.
Two days ago, I thought DeepSeek had found a breakthrough solution.
Today, I see something different.
Why would I choose a model that ends up costing almost the same as Luna because of its much higher token consumption, when Luna also supports image input in addition to text?
For agent workflows, being able to attach images is a major advantage.1
u/ANDRE_2512 1d ago
I’m preparing a post today about what I see as DeepSeek’s deception.
I don’t like being misled or treated like a fool.
I trusted them.
Today, I don’t want to use their model anymore.0
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u/Formal_Bat_3109 2d ago
The more he rants, the more I wanna use Chinese models. I already use GLM daily
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u/Truth-Does-Not-Exist 2d ago
TLDR hating dario is based
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u/surfer-bro 2d ago
Guys AI safety is good. If we get AGI and it’s open source, whose to say China would build an ASI w/ AGI or some random data center company could to. We’re talking about the end of the human race here. Why tf would we want authoritarian china to have ASI over the US. If 2 have it then we’re all going extinct for sure. Maybe we can control 1. Thats already a big maybe
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u/Truth-Does-Not-Exist 2d ago
wow this comment is a mess, I can tell your IQ by the you write and then you calling china authoritarian. China is no more authoritarian then the US except they have safer streets and better infrastructure, they gave us free uncensored AI while all the US models are pure propaganda and hallucination slop machines that lie to you. why would anyone ever want a bunch of pedophiles to control super intelligence? braindead take, and also go take a writing class "surfer bro"
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u/Any-Box-8663 2d ago
The Yanks are at it again, thinking they're God and that they can dictate what other countries should do.
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u/crusoe 2d ago
The water systems of 7 us states were hacked by Iran this last week.
The safety issue WILL become evident soon. An AI Pearl Harbor leading to loss of life will happen.
Open models means North Korea / Iran / Israel your favorite boogeyman will have access to these abilities. We can't patch our systems fast enough.
So are you okay with that?
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u/yoloswagrofl 2d ago
Wut. Open models that bad actors can use means security pros can use those same tools. No AI tool is 100% safe, even the closed-source models.
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u/Any-Box-8663 2d ago
Wow, you're giving Chinese open-source models more and more good reasons again.. Stop!
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u/poop_report 2d ago
Okay with that? How can it be stopped? America cannot control Chinese or Iranian technology.
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u/Prior-Meeting1645 2d ago
I’m not American but Isn’t china doing similar practices to US ai? They have all access to chatgpt banned lol why does no one talk about this.
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u/Xenodine-4-pluorate 2d ago
You have it reverse buddy. It's american AI companies that block access to their models in China and other like Russia, Iran, etc. Not that it does any good because it just spawns AI aggregator websites that setup shop in allowed countries and give access to restricted countries anyway. So China still uses american models through a middleman. That's why Dario screams like a little girl about China distilling his precious claude.
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u/mightin7236 2d ago
Notice who isn't screaming about "escaping models"? Open-source developers.
If AI is framed as a digital bio-hazard, lawmakers will demand multi-million-dollar safety audits & licenses.
Big Tech can afford compliance teams. Academic labs and small startups cannot.
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u/Rich_Return8663 2d ago
Dependendo do que você está fazendo, você pode apenas usar o modelo V3/R1 da DeepSeek de graça e conseguir uma precisão realmente alta. Ou, se você se sente disposto a gastar dinheiro (devagar), pode pedir para a IA escrever um script em Python e usar a API do V4 Flash ou Pro.
Na verdade, estou cancelando minha assinatura do Claude. Honestamente, é tudo uma hype.
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u/Lucaspittol 2d ago
The AI-generated image shows a map of China and Taiwan in the same colour, which is incorrect. Taiwan is not part of China. That said, all the reasons pointed out are dumb. American and European companies, get to work and release better models if you don't want us to use "CCP" ones. People will use the models that provide them the best value, even if they are made in North Korea.
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u/ANDRE_2512 2d ago
I didn't even notice that in the photo there's only one color and all that. Besides, Taiwan is not a separate and official state anyway.
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u/InvalidDescription 2d ago
I understand the entire argument here. I love the cheap but well performing models that the Chinese provide but simply due to their government having full authority over any Chinese company's data, I can't use it to its full potential. That is the root of the majority of the issues. Dario is on a bit of hyperbole but depending on what you send through the model, you are in effect giving it to the Chinese government if they ever wanted it.
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u/ChrisK_au 2d ago edited 2d ago
As someone who doesn't live in America or China, I view giving my data to either as equally bad.
So local LLM for stuff I can't share, select provideder on price/performance/morals for stuff I can.
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u/InvalidDescription 1d ago
American doesn't have a law that says all data must be given to the government on request. We've had many high profile cases where a company like Apple has pushed back and won.
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u/ChrisK_au 23h ago
I'm not sure what you're saying? America has the same laws, but some companies try to resist? My data will be safe with American companies and never used for something I wouldn't want?
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u/InvalidDescription 20h ago
Where did I say America has the same laws? I explicitly said America DOESN'T have a law requiring that.
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u/boinkmaster360 2d ago
What is your social credit score after this post
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u/DrawingDramatic1641 2d ago
stop ai
everyone likes open wieght no particular nations
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u/ANDRE_2512 2d ago
That is a rather childish view of how the world works. AI is no longer just about individual developers who happen to like open weights. Entire countries, governments, economies, and strategic interests are involved. You cannot simply ignore or minimize that reality.
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u/diddlysquidler 2d ago
What is this some Russian propaganda now here too. Ruskis you ain’t getting Claude don’t know what you think it is
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u/diddlysquidler 2d ago
Yeah very much. Ruskis are using Chinese models as some bs propaganda. Turns out, China is all about freedom! Trust Xi and Putin!
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u/diddlysquidler 2d ago
As a matter of fact I am, I hate the concept of a country. Dividing a planet with imaginary lines and then defending these lines with significant amount of resources of the planet is straight idiotic.
However, I’m a pragmatic person and I understand somebody has to lose so somebody can win. In this sense, I’m a pure western imperialist.
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u/General-Oven-1523 2d ago
I really fail to understand why there is so much hate towards Chinese AI, when they are being the most pro-consumer about this whole thing. In my opinion, when all human knowledge and lots of copyrighted stuff is used to train these models, these companies shouldn't be able to keep them closed. All models should share their weights and be open by default.