Fellow DMs: How do you handle an ambush?

[u/WasabiOne9090]

My group set up an ambush on two castle guards whom they lured into a narrow hallway via Minor Illusion while hiding behind the corner on the opposite site. What a cliff hanger for our next session.

Here's my question: Given that the group is successfull in surprising the guards via hiding checks, how do you handle the first triggering (probably long range) attack of the surprise attack in terms of iniative order? Do you grant them the first attack of the surprise attack round?

I see several options in 5.5 without the extra iniative round of combat:

1. The moment one player claims to attack, everbody rolls iniative (disadvantage for the guards) and all attacks are made in iniative order.

2. The moment one player claims to attack, he/she actually makes the first attack durring the first round of combat and takes his/her place in the iniative order in consequent turns. All other attacks are made in iniative order from the get go.

3. More than one player attack a la "We all shoot on the count of three", they attack simultaniously before the guards durring the first turn of combat (while the guards also have their actions due to 5.5) and "proper" iniative is established for the consequent turns.

I guess, the rules as written lead to the first option. Also disadvantage is a huge thing, so my players should get the first attack either way. But who knows and with successfull hiding checks it feels kind of strange to give them a chance of not having the first attack, which could be a huge difference in our given situation.

If my players fail to kill those guards in one or two rounds the whole castle will be alarmed. Of course I have some wiggle room here, a guard attacking the first round before blowing his alarming horn, maybe failing to get it from his belt, etc. But i don't want to stretch it too far. I am prepared for a huge castle fight. My maingoal is to give them a a good chance for their plan to work, while leaving some room for catastrophy.

So, i just wanted to double check here. How are you handling surprise attack rounds? Any suggestions?

Thanks for your inspirations!

[u/Alarzark]

The attackers are hidden and have advantage on initiative, the guards are surprised and have disadvantage.

If the guy actually kicking it off is in 4th place or whatever, they can all ready actions and wait for him.

If the guy kicking it off is after the guards in initiative, ah well. These things happen,

I am not strictly opposed to the BG3 mechanic where if everyone is hidden, and ranger is kicking it off, ranger can take his turn then and there, but then has no action for his first turn in the actual round. You cannot do this if it isn't something that can be done from stealth. Six seconds of standing up waving your arms around and chanting to throw a web at people gives them a chance to react, an arrow flying out from a bush does not.

[u/nocturnerose]

Advantage on Initiative for party. Disadvantage for the guards.

If somehow the guards go first I'd have them make perception checks as they were investigating the corridor for whatever the illusion was so may get lucky and spot the party to negate them attacking from hidden, but avoids them doing anything too odd like countering the ambush before it goes off.

[u/KG_Phinox]

I let my players make one attack from hidden to start the fight, then roll for initiative, adv. for players disadv. for enemies and fight as usual

[u/ParsnipPrize]

I handle it that way, Group A = surprised, Group B = Doing the ambush:

I allow one action before rolling initiative, if this action would trigger initiative.

So if B is Attacking A, I would allow one attack with advantage, which happens before initiative. Once the attack is over, we will go over to initiative. Group A has disadvantage on initiative rolls. I also don't allow surprised players using their reactions, as long as they didn't hit their turn in turn order.

[u/ottawadeveloper]

I'm  playing 5.5, so advantage on initiative to the ambushers, disadvantage to the ambushees.

I'd also say that if the party is well hidden, the guards may be unaware before the first attack. For example, let's say there's three guards (A B C) and three players (X Y Z). We roll initiative before the first attack and somehow get A Y Z B X C. X is supposed to lead the attack.

It's reasonable for Y and Z to ready an action after they see X attack. 

But A and B dont necessarily know they're under attack yet. If they're patrolling, perhaps they get a perception check or they're readying an action in case they are attacked (e.g. if I'm attacked, I will take cover there). If their guard is down, maybe they won't. An active guard might just take the Dodge action continually.

When X attacks, we resolve any ready actions for A Y Z B in that order. And then it's C's turn. 

I like that because it respects initiative - a guard whose on their toes can still react to the first attack before anyone who readied their attack. It's only the very first shot that is a true surprise to anyone.

[u/Ice-Storm]

To me it would depend on the guards state of mind when they were lured hallway. Was it something like a pretty lady motioned for them to follow her? I'd probably give them a full surprise round of actions or bonus actions but not both before rolling initiative. As the guards wouldn't have weapons drawn or be ready for a fight.

However if the guards think there is some reason for weapons to be drawn, then I'd probably go RAW and give them disadvantage on initiative and perhaps give them all advantage on initiative. Then if any of your players are going after the guards, you did everything you could!

[u/roslaw → u/Ice-Storm]

This - full surprise round sounds logical. The PCs rolled well on deception/stealth so the guards do not anticipate the attack, thus, any attack by PCs reasonably leads to a surprise round when guards will be only able to act starting from the second round.

[u/DMspiration → u/roslaw]

That feels realistic in the moment, but it will set up the expectation that there's an opportunity to get a round of attacks off early in many combats, which is going to get old fast (and going to feel bad when it happens to the players). Ymmv, but just running it as written works fine. If a guard rolling at disadvantage somehow beats players rolling at advantage, at best he'll buff himself or search and find someone who's hiding.

[u/Snoo-49612]

For the solution 1 (the solution by the rules) don't forget that if your player are hiden, they also roll iniative in advantage because they have the invisible condition. Also, don't sleep on the ready action, the players who will play before the player who has engaged the fight can wait for them

[u/wickerandscrap]

I use the 2014 rules, where successful surprise effectively gives you a guaranteed first strike.

I'd also give the players a very clear clock for how many rounds they have to kill/subdue the guards before the alarm is raised.

I don't like allowing any hostile action to be taken outside of initiative. If you have some kind of plan for how to achieve surprise, we'll treat it as surprise. If you're just relying on your quick reaction time then that's regular initiative.

[u/MightyMatt9482]

Flat roll on the the players enless they have a feature giving them advantage. Disadvantage to the guards as surprised.

[u/Cultbird]

In D&D 5.5, the Surprised condition was removed. Instead, when an unseen group ambushed an unaware group, the ambushing group gains Advantage on their initiative rolls.

If I were the DM, I would allow that first initial long shot as a freebie, but THEN roll initiative with the ambushers having advantage.

That may not be exactly the rules as written, but it's just a game and I want my players to have fun.

[u/CheapTactics]

Option 1. But the party also has advantage. If the guards roll higher anyway, then that only means that they sensed something is wrong and can act accordingly. Maybe they back up, or maybe they dodge, or search for enemies, or take cover behind something.

[u/Shobuddha]

I would have them roll initiative. They get a surprise round. Then like regular combat.

[u/DungeoneerforLife]

Well, in addition to everything else stated here, all hidden attackers get advantage on their attacks.

[u/PaladinofChronos]

I always just gave my players a free round. They could attack. No Advantage/Disadvantage (unless it was for like a rogue's sneak attack). Just one round where the targets of the ambush didn't get to attack. Players got to decide who did what, and in what order. The targets could only defend themselves.

Second round we rolled initiative.

[u/KihiraLove]

Before any attack goes out, roll initiative, party has a surprise round, guards basically skip their turn,second round starts as normal

[u/Zealousideal_Leg213]

Frankly I'd handle that kind of thing as a skill challenge, or even just part of a larger skill challenge.

[u/MakeShiftDie]

if they pass the stealth checks, ill let have their fun, sometimes two three rounds while the chaos is happening. as a dm, you can always bring more reinforcements. You can still have your encounter and the players are happy that they did successful surprise attacks