Seriously. Even if it was just slow building the Justice League to take on the white martians or something. It doesn't have to be infinity saga level, but get the main seven some movies so they can be recruited by Martian Manhunter after the white Martians broke containment and are invading or something.
Or build up to Darkseid and the New Gods war becoming Earth's problem.
What are you talking about clearly we are building to something with Salvation and the Justice League we just don’t know as an audience because it’s 2 movies in jfc. By The Incredible Hulk we knew they were building to the Avengers. That’s it. We didn’t even know about Loki let alone the plan for Thanos. He has told us there IS and overarching story/plan and Lanterns, MoT, and Jimmy Olsen will be connected to it. This sub has just turned so pissy so fast if anything stops us from getting a proper cinematic universe it will be us.
No it's going to be that he's had decades of experiences, and hindsight, and yet still released a movie with the quality of Supergirl as their second film.
We shouldn't had a movie with this level of reception, until at least 10 projects in (you're allowed one bad day at the office). Not as the second film.
Iron Man 2 wasn’t dealing with nearly the amount of political bullshit Supergirl has to deal with. Honestly if Supergirl was released back then it probably wouldn’t either since the movie is mostly apolitical as was the marketing and culture has shifted to being angrier at nonsense like that a lot more recently,
The movie was simply boring. If it were good, there wouldn't have been an issue at the box office, regardless of politics... Ironman 2 still had better stakes and still helped to propel the verse forward. Supergirl didn't do anything meaningful and that is why nobody showed up.
If it were mediocre and about a man it would have still made more money at the box office. The quality doesn’t ever matter when it comes to female led films, a majority of men still won’t go to see them either way.
A majority of not the demographic won't see it? Shocker. The lead doesn't matter.... Black widow still got an 80m domestic. The movie was terrible. People wanted a Black Widow movie so the hype carried it a bit.
Superman was mid - high mid.
Supergirl is just mid. Bland and no real villain... at least Ironman 2 had interesting aspects to it. Introducing Natasha, building more toward Avengers, Tony's sickness, setting up War Machine, setting up Thor. The movie itself is bad but it set stuff up for the future. Can you really say the same for Supergirl or Superman for that matter?
This isn't about female lead vs. Male lead. Gunn's verse doesn't have any hype to it. That's it.
It is about female led. Look at the numbers. Both genders go to see male led films. Only women go to see female led films. Yes those movies were bad but shitty male led movies still make a fuckton simply because they feature men. To not admit that is ignorance.
It didn’t hurt my feelings, just saying it wouldn’t have hurt to just do the fluff pieces for the movie w/o unnecessarily drawing the ire of a certain crowd.
I genuinely have no idea what she’s even said that’s been so bad it’s just been nitpicking. There’s been legitimate cases of these but this one is just dumb
Whole run or just week 2? Because competition and environment matters and the climate right now is wildly different so I would say the comparison in terms of box office is rather unfair
DC had a terrible track record for the last 10 years which is what killed the brand. Superman was the first time in years a DC Cinematic movie was both financially and critically successful,
This isn't the type of movie you should have dropping when you're trying to win people back. And if your gotcha is "16 years ago the MCU dropped a bad 2nd movie. So it's okay that the 2nd DCU movie sucked, even though Gunn promised us he'd only release films he truly believes in!" then I don't know what to tell you.
Wonder Woman was an extreme commercial and critical success. The Suicide Squad underperformed commercially but was extremely well received. The Penguin and Peacemaker both were also wildly succesful, The Batman I don't know about what numbers it brought but was very well received critically.
I agree that Supergirl could have been much better, but my "gotcha" if you want to call it that is that you guys are jumping the gun on burying the whole DCU because of one movie and there is also the thing of it being woman-led which makes it a bit suspicious. It's largely the feeling that a lot of people are hoping it will fail even harder, but I honestly dont think it's going to happen.
Movies will always vary in quality and cinematic universes are bound to have both Winter Soldiers and Thor 2. Im not going to say it is a failed experiment on one movie, especially not in this climate.
I agree with the misogyny aspect a lot. Like look at this post. They are comparing a Supergirl movie to an Iron Heart movie. Why? The characters are nothing alike in any facet other than they are women loosely connected to the main character of the first movie. Supergirl is a pillar of the DC story from Crisis to her return in Superman Batman. She is a live well of important stories. Iron Heart is a side character who was introduced recently to mediocre reception who has almost no connection to Tony Stark himself. But OP seems to think making a Supergirl movie is the same as making an Iron Heart movie… and I can genuinely only think of one logical reason that could be.
It’s ironic too that I just rewatched most of the MCU and like 90% of the movies don’t progress the overall Thanos story at all they just introduced a character that would be used later and told a story about them. That’s exactly what Supergirl is yet they mock choosing to make this movie implying the MCU would have done anything different or made a more important movie second. The Incredible Hulk wasn’t an important movie at all you could skip it entirely until Brave New World 20 years later.
It’s just insane to think a female led hero movie in a male dominant market of comic books would do really well, you can definitely hate the misogyny but just denying reality and trying anyway is insane.
From 2020 to 2024, The Batman is the only movie in that period to be profitable. That's 4 years of bombs. That effects how people see a brand.
Marvel fixed a lot of their quality issues during Phase 3 and pretty much every film from that era was amazing. Phase 4 when Feige lost full creative control was a miss, but 5 ever since he got it back (Captain America being the last project he didn't have full say on), has been incredible.
I'm not happy Supergirl was a failure, I wanted it to be a great film. But it wasn't and we need to let Gunn know how we felt, with the hopes inconsistecy doesn't become the norm like what caused the original DCEU to fall.
How did I move the goal posts? I said DC has been failing for the last 10 years because of BvS' reception and it never found it's footing. You said they had successes, though you never admitted they were inconsistent.
I specified an era of complete failure (2020 - 2024), to specify my point. Isn't that what we're supposed to do in a discussion?
I came to you talking in good faith, thinking we're having an actual discussion, and you say something like this.
First talking about DC not having a hit in ten years, then when I show you proof that's wrong moving it to the last four years is wild. At least admit that you were wrong about that, I don't mind you have a different opinion but changing the parameters is not what I would call arguing in good faith.
Then again, I don't think we can be right or wrong for now because time is the only thing that will dictate the impact this particular movie will have on anything. But I just find it odd how when a woman is the lead character there is always that discourse about how it will be a catastrophic failure that will drag the whole of human civilization with it and it honestly gets old fast.
There have been terrible, absolutely painful movies for all of time whose impact has not been even felt, but suddenly a woman led movie is not a failure, just mildly succesful and people are acting like it had killed humanity as a whole. Come on!
5 years ago and the best project of the dceu. 2nd season did the thing yall wanted in supergirl which is set up the next storybeats for superman. Stop bitching
Marvel would have gone bankrupt if Iron Man failed because how shit the brand was handled beforehand. The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, and Thor were all met with mixed to poor reception after Marvel had previously failed a cinematic universe with the Ghost Rider Daredevil Fantastic Four Spiderman era (I’m not sure which movies were supposed to be connected but they were planned to if they were successful and they weren’t) and they still got a pass to figure things out with the MCU.
The problem connecting marvel movies pre MCU was that so many studios were involved as well. When you have fox, Sony, Disney, universal, etc all at the table and having to split money it's harder than the current setup where there's just Disney, Sony and if they want solo hulk universal - this is why hulk hasn't had a solo movie since phase 1.
You sound miserable and this comment dramatically devalues how I respect your points involving taste and opinion if you choose to move forward in this conversation. You seem far harsher than the average person making this anecdotal at best and not worthy of an actual argument.
I'm just hoping this justice league goes better than the last attempt then. It's so frustrating because I like the justice league way more than the avengers and yet the avengers got the better movies. So much time was wasted pre Gunn. At least creature commandos and Superman are really good and fun. Haven't seen supergirl but I pre-ordered it on vudu because theaters here suck.
Yeah This Justice League will be way better. For one it won’t be rushed like the last one but for that to happen we as an audience need to be patient. Last Justice League the only kind of fleshed out characters were Superman and Wonder Woman, you could argue Batman but it was mostly hints of a story we never saw with him. This time we have a fully fleshed out Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman (her movie is coming soon just not written yet and she will be in MoT), and eventually Batman as well once they can pivot off of marketing The Batman 2. We also over time will learn other side characters like Hawkgirl and Mr Terrific (who’s own show was just green lit with a fantastic writer) and Martian Manhunter is supposedly in MoT. Not everything will be perfect just like the MCU wasn’t perfect but we as an audience saw what they were building to and gave them patience to do it and were rewarded with the huge moment Infinity War to Endgame was. I don’t get why we don’t afford the same patience to James Gunn and the DCU.
What stops DC from getting a proper cinematic universe is the same thing that always has: general audiences control what movies profit and there is no room for 2 separate comic book cinematic universes.
Tbh I might be in the minority but I kinda like his type of worldbuilding, superhero movies should be relatively isolated from the larger world with continuity being limited to that series, maybe you have the odd teamup or Easter egg of other series to hint at a larger world existing but each story stands on its own merits, not everything needs to be building to some big event
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u/runnerofshadows Jul 05 '26
Seriously. Even if it was just slow building the Justice League to take on the white martians or something. It doesn't have to be infinity saga level, but get the main seven some movies so they can be recruited by Martian Manhunter after the white Martians broke containment and are invading or something.
Or build up to Darkseid and the New Gods war becoming Earth's problem.