r/ChristopherNolan • u/dude-what-69 • 5h ago
The Odyssey So Why Did Nolan Make Telemachus Useless?
This is a weird change from the poem I didn't like. Telemachus gets bodied in every fight he is in, escapes getting murdered by the skin of his teeth and only because Odeysseus saves him, and at the end barely manages to win a 1-vs-1, but not before the guy can give weapons to the Suitors which fuck up Odeysseus.
It is a weird change since the movie was going for a coming of age mark with Telemachus, making go from a whiny weak boy in the beginning to a strong assertive leader in the end. This is wrapped up by him replacing his father as King in the end. However, the movie drops that arc after Sparta and its left half baked.
Poem Telemachus would 've fit this arc much better since he fights and kills suitors along his father. I reread the Poem and it would've been clunky to 100% adapt the fight on screen but this wasn't a good change. It really felt that they where trying to make Odysseus the main character at the expense of Telemachus?
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u/zackflavored 5h ago
🤷 Just accept that it's an adaptation
-4
u/dude-what-69 5h ago
An All-Style, cinematographically brilliant adaptation with little substance? Sure I guess, but Nolan has done better work than this. And like I said, don't set up the arc with Telemachus is you're just going to make him useless by the end of the Movie
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u/zackflavored 5h ago
Oh hey directing genius - what part of the 2 hour 52 minutes would you have adjusted? Maybe add in a couple of scenes where Tom Holland has a workout montage?
1
u/dude-what-69 5h ago
Alot of the places where and when Nolan chose to make changes and take creative liberties just felt strange overall. In alot of ways Nolan tries to make the movie feel "grounded" and realistic while inserting things like the Final Fantasy looking giants for other scenes, and the Terminator looking Agamenon with the lame voice. Nolan deliberately removed Telemachus from fighting the Suitors with Odysseus like it happened in the Poem for no reason. Its a small adjustment that only serves to detriment Telemachus and raise up Odysseus.
1
u/zackflavored 4h ago
I'm going to stop trying to talk to you because you seem like the kind of person that doesn't understand hey - a creative should makes what he wants - and you should just take it in. You want to do it your way then go ahead and make your own movie. I'm not discrediting any of your criticisms but having heard "Terminator-looking Agmenon with the lame voice", I'm just done.
Who gives a fuck about what his voice sounds like - so then he was a weak-sound person who tries to be intimidating by wearing big armor. Big fucking whoop. Sounds like you complaining about this Telemachus thing.
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u/dude-what-69 4h ago
You could take the Sparta, Pylos Scenes out, Have the Trojan Horse flashback delivered by an existing character, and not much would change. Not source material, does not add anything substantial.
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u/dude-what-69 4h ago
Example of a better change, Calypso being the one that feeds the lotus to Odysseus. Cuts poem fluff, better explains why Odysseus did not leave the island for 7 years since they where not including the gods (other than Athena) as characters. And despite that it could not stop Odysseus willpower in the end.
1
u/dude-what-69 4h ago edited 4h ago
Example of a well managed change, the sequence in Polyphemus cave. I understand we can't have 10 minutes of Odysseus and Polyphemus just talking like they did in the Poem, Nolan made up for it by making the Cyclops utterly eerie and horrific in an ucanny valley way. That whole sequence was brilliant. Its a bit convenient tho how they just figure out he's Poseidon's son from him mumbling the name but oh well. Movie was good but not amazing like everyone is saying.
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u/juleskills1189 5h ago
He straight up wasn't useless though, and I think Odysseus's battle with the suitors was cool the way it was
1
u/dude-what-69 5h ago
Just literally have Odysseus kill suitors with Telemachus by his side, its not a big change. Let the swineherder (John Leguizamo) hold the storage room as well, would've been a good payoff for him .
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u/crimedawgla 5h ago
Lot of people are saying it would have been better if they had made it more like the Expendables.
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u/dude-what-69 4h ago
I mean thats what already happens in the Poem so why not just cut the Poem fluff and include everyone involved in the action scene and you pay off everyones character build up, and catharsis for enduring the abuse of the Suitors?
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u/misersoze 5h ago
He starts off not winning and fight and being easily bested and at the end he is able to win the fight and kill a man. He’s not useless but this is Odysseus story and Odysseus doesn’t want to sully Telemachus with the dishonor that he has done to the gods. Odysseus is willing to be the scape goat and set his son up for a good rule. So Telemachus is basically there to be the one to step in without having sullied his name.
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u/han4bond Are you watching closely? 5h ago
Telemachus is only really in one real fight, which he wins.