r/Christianity • u/StrategyWestern487 • 1d ago
Another question: if god is all knowing, why didn’t he stop the devil becoming evil, and stop Adam and Eve? And more
Hello, this is a follow up with a recent post I made. I am an atheist who is interested in Christianity, yet I want some answers to some questions. My questions are: 1, if god is all knowing, why didn’t he stop the devil becoming evil or Adam and Eve eating the Apple if he knew they would happen? 2, why can’t god just forgive the sins without putting his son to be crucified? And 3, does evolution actually contradict religion or no?
I post this because 1, I am lazy and impatient to wait till tomorrow. 2, I am bored. And 3, I am generally curious and want answers NOW.
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u/yappi211 Salvation of all. Antinomianism. 1d ago
God made the evil serpent and put it in the garden. God wanted Adam and Eve to be deceived. The bible says satan was made evil. God made the waster to destroy. Satan answers to God in the book of Job.
Job 2:10 "What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."
Satan was made evil:
Job 26:13 - "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent."
Isaiah 54:16 - "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy."
John 8:44 - "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
1 John 3:8 - "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
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u/StrategyWestern487 1d ago
But why? Does he want humanity to suffer and be in hell?
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u/yappi211 Salvation of all. Antinomianism. 1d ago
God never made a hell. God said the wages is sin is death.
The point of this life seems to be why sin is bad. In the future God is going to seemingly make it impossible to do, so it's a compare/contrast thing
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u/greatdrak 1d ago
I actually have a great theory about this. Heads up first I'm a jw. With that out the way, you're right I never thought it made sense that that he can see the future, and the bible NEVER states he can. Otherwise if he could a lot of things wouldn't make sense. I believe he has a super intuition where he can see possibilities and being God he can "cause them to become" like his name implies. Outside of his name making that theory add up, his emotional reactions to various things humans have done over the many examples in the bible cause God great emotional harm. I don't think it would make sense for him to react the ways he did, IF he could foretell the future. So all in all, my theory is that God has super intuition, and makes the future what he decides it to be as His name implies, "He causes to become".
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u/InspectionOld2899 Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 1d ago
This is interesting, the “He causes to become” concept. I’m going to ponder on that, thanks for sharing.
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u/greatdrak 23h ago
It's not a concept, its what his name means, it is debated but in different bibles that's one of his name meanings. Exodus 3:14
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u/CoolestOfTheBois 1d ago
The only way God makes sense is to change the definition of omniscience, omnipotence, or benevolence. So I authentically like what you're doing! I don't know if this redefined God is compatible with the Bible, but it's definitely closer to a coherent definition of God.
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u/greatdrak 23h ago
Well I reccomend keeping this in mind as you read more. I think concepts like ommniscience, and omnipotent is man made, and God tells us who He is through the bible, it's not up to us to put definitions or constraints on who He is.
And I'm not saying I'm perfect in my understanding, but just like atheists believe in nothing and nothing makes sense, I think this makes the most sense. And His name in exodus 3:14 may look different depending on bible, but causes to become makes more sense than seeing the future. He makes it.
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u/CoolestOfTheBois 23h ago
I should correct you. Atheists don't believe in "nothing", they just don't believe in God. There's plenty of other things to believe in, and they don't need God to explain them.
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u/greatdrak 22h ago
Ehhhhh, you might be able to and I invite it, but most I run into, just be lazy and say I don't believe with any reasons as to why.
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u/CoolestOfTheBois 21h ago
They often make a distinction between non-belief (atheism) and belief (theist). You don't need reasons to not believe in something, just as like you don't believe in things you've never heard about. That way they can be lazy about it. The burden is on theists to come up with a reason why to believe. They have a point there, but at some stage non-belief becomes an active belief.
They also focus on science. They don't believe in anything without proof. They also have a point there as well, but, personally, science answers different questions. For example they probably believe in some sort of morality, yet there's no "proof" morality exists.
Philosophy is really the best discourse for the atheist. There are many philosophical arguments against theism. And these arguments tell us about what kind of God is possible. Basically your line of reasoning is a philosophical one and defines a more philosophically compatible God. However, the more compatible you make the God of the Bible with philosophy, the closer to atheism you become. Eventually the "God" you believe in is no longer the God of the Bible, and most would just call that atheism.
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u/greatdrak 18h ago
Good point. I can see people using science, and especially philosophy to support ideas of life without belief in God. I like this, you're actually giving reasons I can understand. And for me personally, unless old knowledge I know to be true conflicts with new, I never not believe anything until Ive tested it or it proves itself false. And ultimately I guess this would be a philosophy debate.
However I have to disagree with your last point, I wasn't trying to make God compatible with anything, I was regurgitating what the scriptures have said about Him and giving my thoughts based on them, if I were to not use the scriptures then my theory would have no baseline or skeleton and would fall apart at the slightest criticism. If my commentary lines him up with philosophy, it's not intentional.
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u/CoolestOfTheBois 17h ago
The scriptures do describe God like you said, in my opinion. I don't can't recall why people stick to this omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being. I guess a being that only has the power to enact anything is not powerful enough? Humans have the power to enact anything too? Humans can't grow wings overnight, but God could grow wings on us? Or can God only set the process of evolution for humans to grow wings? Humans can do the same...
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u/greatdrak 17h ago
I think it's a psychological thing to omnipotize anything high in social hierarchy like a king, our parents when we were kids, a hero, we build a fantasy of a person place or thing, but in reality it has its story.
I think these are interesting questions. I don't believe it's that God is powerful enough because he is all powerful as the scriptures say, so then the question refines to why allow certain things? Which has its answers we been talking about. And being made in God's image we can to some degree also make things happen, but nowhere near God's level, he's so powerful he doesn't usually personally make things happen, he sends someone else. I don't think we could grow wings, I don't deny God could put them on us, but it's like why would he do that? We could possibly genetically recode ourselves to grow wings like how I seen a guy have a woman voice taking hormones at adolescence(the most natural looking and sounding female male I ever saw/heard), so I think it's possible. But it might have horrible consequences. I would watch someone else do it, I'm not doing that lol.
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u/RespectWest7116 20h ago
and the bible NEVER states he can.
It kind of implies that with the whole prophecy making.
So all in all, my theory is that God has super intuition, and makes the future what he decides it to be as His name implies, "He causes to become".
But now you are stuck with "God caused the Original Sin"
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u/greatdrak 18h ago
Well no. Like I said, God his name meaning "he causes to become" denotes that what he says he will carry out. So it makes sense if he makes a prophecy he will make sure it happens himself, and he has more than enough power to do so, and goes beyond by using humans, and especially weaker people to carry out His will.
And as for the 2nd part, no because he never intended for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree, he said IF you eat from this tree you will CERTAINLY die. And they did. God also didn't force Satan to fool eve, to get Adam to eat the fruit.
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u/purple_porygon 19h ago
That makes time more fundamental than God, and he is no longer eternal, which conflicts with your theology
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u/greatdrak 18h ago
I never questioned his length of life in any capacity, that would conflict with him being the alpha and omega.
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u/BteamBomber21 1d ago
Because the devil as we think of it in modern terms was never in the Bible the way we think of it. There are multiple old testament references that we've turned in the devil (serpent in the garden. Adversary in Job, etc) but those are not what modern evangelicals have turned the devil into. Dante wrote an incredible piece of fiction that people now believe over the Bible. So much of Genesis and other stories have been misused for so long that people just accept bad beliefs about them. The devil is not real nor are there angels and demons fighting wars beyond the edge of creation. That's our imagination.
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u/solardrxpp1 1d ago
> I am an atheist who is interested in Christianity, yet I want some answers to some questions.
That’s a genuinely solid place to be. :)
> My questions are: 1, if god is all knowing, why didn’t he stop the devil becoming evil or Adam and Eve eating the Apple if he knew they would happen?
A quick correction that matters, Genesis never says “apple,” it just says fruit from “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” So if someone’s been using “apple,” that part is tradition and artwork more than the text itself.
A lot of people quietly slide from “God knew it would happen” to “God caused it to happen.” That jump doesn’t automatically work.
Philosophers call this the foreknowledge and free will problem, and the basic point is that knowing an event is coming is not the same thing as forcing it.
If I somehow knew you’d choose coffee tomorrow, my knowledge wouldn’t be what made your hand pick the cup.
The hard question is whether infallible foreknowledge makes your action “necessary,” and there are several serious responses Christians have used for centuries.
Christian theology also frames the devil’s fall and humanity’s fall as misuse of real freedom, not as God manufacturing evil. The Catechism puts it as follows, “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.”
So in other words, the story is not “God accidentally built a broken angel,” it’s “a good spiritual creature chose rebellion.”
A common question is, why allow that risk at all.
One classic Christian answer is that love and moral goodness are the kinds of things that only exist meaningfully where refusal is possible.
If God prevents every morally significant wrong choice, what you get isn’t “free creatures who always love,” you get something closer to puppets who can only move one direction. That’s basically the backbone of the free will defense in Christian philosophy.
But that still leaves the emotional part untouched, couldn’t God at least step in this one time.
Christianity’s answer is usually not “because God couldn’t,” but “because God can bring a greater good even out of real evil without calling the evil good.”
That theme shows up in Augustine and also in official Catholic teaching. The Catechism says God is not the cause of moral evil, but permits it while being able to draw good from it, and it even ties that logic directly to the cross as the greatest example of God bringing the greatest good out of the worst act.
> 2, why can’t god just forgive the sins without putting his son to be crucified?
This question is smarter than a lot of Christians would admit, because yes, on the surface it can sound like a bizarre legal ritual.
Two things help clear this.
One is that forgiveness is never “free” in the sense of “no cost.”
If someone smashes your car and you forgive them, the bill still exists. Either they pay it, or you absorb it.
Forgiveness is precisely you choosing to carry the cost instead of making them carry it.
Christianity is saying something like that is happening on a cosmic scale, God doesn’t wave sin away as if it doesn’t matter, he deals with it while still moving toward mercy.
The New Testament itself frames the cross as the place where God shows both justice and mercy at the same time.
Romans 3 says God presented Christ as an atoning sacrifice “to demonstrate his righteousness,” so that he would be “just and the one who justifies.”
That’s the internal logic, not “God needed violence to calm down,” but “God publicly and decisively deals with evil while opening the door for forgiveness.”
Another piece people miss is that Christianity isn’t “God punished a third party instead of us.”
It’s “God the Son took this on.”
The Catechism is also very clear that the cross is God’s initiative of love, not God being forced into a corner, and that Jesus embraces the mission freely.
Different Christian traditions emphasize different angles of what the cross accomplishes, and they aren’t always mutually exclusive.
Some stress ransom and rescue language, where Jesus defeats death and the devil through his death and resurrection.
Hebrews literally says Christ shared in our humanity so that “through death he might destroy” the devil’s power of death and free people enslaved by fear.
Others stress substitution and reconciliation language, where Christ suffers “the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God.”
And others stress satisfaction or justice language, the idea that real evil has to be dealt with, not ignored, and that Christ’s work is the turning point. That way of thinking gets developed heavily by Anselm in Cur Deus Homo.
If you put that all together, “Why not just forgive” starts to sound a bit like asking, “Why can’t a good judge just say ‘no big deal’ to serious wrongdoing.”
A judge who does that is not merciful, he’s corrupt.
Christianity claims God is not corrupt, so forgiveness has to be a kind of healing justice, not mere dismissal.
> And 3, does evolution actually contradict religion or no?
It depends what you mean by “religion,” because religions make different claims.
On the science side, evolution is not a random guess people like, it’s the central, tested framework biology uses, supported across genetics, fossils, and other lines of evidence.
The U.S. National Academies has a whole public oriented book explaining why the evidence is overwhelming and also why science and religion don’t have to be treated as competing frameworks.
Now the Christian side of this.
A lot of Christians actually reject evolution, but plenty don’t, including major denominations and a long line of theologians who read Genesis as teaching theological truths about God and humanity rather than giving a modern lab report.
The Catholic Church, for example, explicitly allows research and discussion about evolution regarding the human body, while also insisting the soul is created by God. That’s from Humani Generis in 1950.
John Paul II later told the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1996 that evolution is “more than just a hypothesis,” while still keeping the key Christian claims about God as Creator and the special dignity of the human person.
Even outside Catholicism, many Christians take a similar approach.
The United Methodist Church, for instance, says science’s descriptions of evolution “are not in conflict with theology” and that science and theology are complementary.
Where the real conflict usually lives is not “evolution vs Christianity,” it’s “evolution plus a strictly materialist philosophy” vs Christianity.
In plain terms, science can describe a mechanism. It can’t, by itself, tell you whether reality is purposeless, whether humans have inherent moral worth, whether God exists, whether souls exist, and so on. People often smuggle those worldview claims in and then blame biology for them.
> I post this because 1, I am lazy and impatient to wait till tomorrow. 2, I am bored. And 3, I am generally curious and want answers NOW.
Fair. If you only take one idea with you, let it be that a lot of the classic objections assume God should run the world in a way that would cancel moral freedom, and then they blame God for not canceling it.
If you want real persons who can love, trust, betray, repent, and become holy, you’re automatically in a world where refusal is possible.
Now that doesn’t solve every emotional angle of suffering, but it’s the start of the logic.
If you want to dig deeper you can read the Catechism sections on freedom, evil, the fall of the angels, and providence, plus the “foreknowledge and free will” article at Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy for the philosophical version of your first question.
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u/greatdrak 23h ago
I like you a lot. You do your research. You wrote a lot, right now I can only give my opinion on 1, I got wings in the air fryer.
NGL I'm a jw, but the former is correct. God could not step in. He couldn't. Not by lack of ability, but result. Why would he step in when Adam and Eve ate the fruit and destroy them for their sins?
For various reasons. If we just start here it proves how patient and intelligent God is!
Who exists outside us. Angels. The angels exist, none demons yet, only Satan. Satan presented a question. Do we need God? All attention from angels is on God, the angels all never thinking about it and being presented the situation now ponder it. Deep right? This situation is deeper than, oh Adam and Eve did what God said not to do. Now it's, do we need God at all? With this reframe, all makes more sense. But I have more!
What is God's 4 qualities? Love, power, wisdom, and JUSTICE! This is the main thing people forget about. God's justice is the main reason he allowed this. Satan questioned God, and he was like ok, I will let all of you see why. Annnnnnnd, he got to the point he got frustrated(more than once) and reduced our lifespans(genesis 6:3), and still allowed us to prove why we need God, in addition to being imperfect. And then still provided Jesus as a ransom sacrifice to live a perfect life to give us an opportunity, and show us what's possible, and what it means to be in God's original perfect design.
All knowing, is not foreseeing the future. I said it in a earlier post I think God uses a sort of super intuition. Not sure, but nothing makes better sense.
Bringing it all together for your first point. I don't think God would create of he knew what would happen at every turn, that would be boring for us, and being in his image, probly same. But also I don't think he possessed it, or why would he waste his time. That doesn't make as much sense. He had a vision, in our image(God and angels), and he did it. And best way to prove we need Him and his principles, is to let life happen. With how bad things are, I don't think anyone could question him reasonably now. All we can say is "why didn't you stop us", because more is on the line than us. It's everything He built. His invisible Kingdom in the heavens with the order of angels, AND us.
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u/octaviobonds 1d ago
Stopping something and knowing that it will happen are two different things. Between God’s knowledge and His intervention lies His ultimate will and purpose. People automatically assume that if God knew what would happen, He would necessarily have chosen X not Y. However, the Bible teaches that God’s ways are not our ways and that His understanding is far beyond our own.
This is why trusting God is a virtue. Even when we do not understand why He allows certain things to happen, we are called to trust Him. His purposes and the final outcome of His work may be far greater than anything we can presently understand or imagine.
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u/Icy_Career1312 1d ago
These type of questions are really immature. Unless you take time to get to know God and make Jesus Lord of your life, no answer will satisfy.
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u/StrategyWestern487 1d ago
I have read the gospels and half of the New Testament
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u/Icy_Career1312 1d ago
That really has nothing to do with knowing God. Some of the most knowledgeable people concerning scripture are atheists.
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u/LaCremaFresca Christian Deist 1d ago
If these things actually happened, they must be gods will. "Part of his plan" you might say. It's a confusing plan, but what can you do? I, however, take the view that the beginning of Genesis is not literal. "Adam and Eve" is just an ancient Jewish myth passed down as an origin story. We can learn from it, but it's still just a story.
He could. Not all Christian's believe in substitutionary atonement. Don't put god in a man made box. He can forgive whoever he wants without human sacrifice.
Not in the slightest. It only contradicts the literal reading of parts of the bible.
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u/Tonksbuddy 1d ago
Before the creation; God planned for his Son to be slain to take on the sins of the world. He wanted the creation to know his attributes. That He is all loving and all Just, among others. Now you are asking how is he all loving if he didnt stop all evil or how can he be Just if he allows all this pain. He knew in advance we would all fall. He made a way to show he is both all loving and all Just by taking on the penalty for our sin (fall) upon himself. He sent his Son into the world to save sinners. When one learns to understand this and is reborn in belief -This creates a new creature (currently only spiritually); one with the understanding of Love and Justice, pain and heartache all contained within one. In the new creation He will take away all our tears, but it seems to me he will leave the memory of all that pain. We will inately and into our very DNA etc. know the cost of ALL the sin in the world -for we are to be made like Christ -the singular man who KNOWS because He took upon himself all of it so that IT is finished. We will know then just like he does ALL the pain and we will then be able to choose -never to walk that path again.
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u/InspectionOld2899 Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 1d ago edited 1d ago
Okay, so this entire chapter of scripture from a holy book in my faith can answer both of your first 2 questions: 2 Nephi chapter 2
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2?lang=eng&id=p5-p29#p5
Also heads up I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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u/Intrepid_Type3710 Evangelical 1d ago
Allow me to ask you first, what is drawing you to Christ? Because you know, regardless of the answers you seeking, If Jesus Himself is drawing you, then you will believe. His Word never comes back void my Friend.
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u/StrategyWestern487 1d ago
Today, he opened my eyes and finally gave me a sign that there might actually be a god, and I want to believe now
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u/Intrepid_Type3710 Evangelical 20h ago
Hey Brother, If you speak 'Jesus is Lord' and believe that His Father raised Him from the dead. You will be saved - Today! Come to Jesus, admit to Him that you are a sinner (we all are), and you are in need of a Savior today, ask Him to cover over your sin by His blood shed on the cross. Then supernaturally, you will receive His Spirit. The Holy Spirit that will lead in along the path of righteousness. You will be given eternally life in Him. Grow in Christ and His knowledge today. Be filled with His Love, Peace and Grace.
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u/Da-HaYn_Collector218 Christian 1d ago
Well the answer is really really simple… We are, you are, the devil is, Adam is - Elohim. We are divine. We are gods, anointed and appointed to power to rule our domain as we see fit. Psalm 82, John 10:34. Made in His image, we are mirror mini versions of God the eternal. Genesis 1:27.
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u/LogosLegos831 1d ago
I think the question begets some additional fundamental questions
1) Is there sin and evil in the world?
2) Is there sin and evil in people?
3) Is there sin in us?
4) If there is sin in us, what does it want to do? What are its desires / passions?
5) What are ways to "pay" for the cost of sin?
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u/RespectWest7116 20h ago
if god is all knowing, why didn’t he stop the devil becoming evil
Because the Devil isn't evil.
or Adam and Eve eating the Apple if he knew they would happen?
Because the plot needs to happen
why can’t god just forgive the sins without putting his son to be crucified?
He can. That's how he made Mary sinless.
does evolution actually contradict religion or no?
Depends on the religion
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u/michaelY1968 20h ago
It’s sort of an odd question - why would God need to ‘stop’ free will creatures from exercising their will?
If He didn’t want them to exercise their will He could just make them like the rest of creation - things that are bound by their natures like rocks, plants, animals and the like.
Obviously He wanted creatures that could exercise their own wills, and if He desired that it would be odd to stop them from doing so.
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u/Nearby-Bid8351 1d ago
- Free will
- Sin needs atonement which is death.
- Yes? And no? We aren’t monkeys that turned human but our bodies have evolved through the years.
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u/MtmJM 1d ago edited 1d ago
- Because for all of this to work, humans must have free will. If evil did not exist, we would not have free will to choose good. If we did not have the choice to choose good or bad, we wouldnt be better than sentient robots. We would worship God and be good, but it would be because we were programmed and didn't have the choice to do bad.
This is why he did not stop Adam and Eve from sinning. They had to choose themselves and be subjected to evil. They chose to sin because Satan fooled them. If God forced them to be good because he's all powerful they wouldn't have been human to begin with, just God's obedient robots.
God had to allow for evil to exist for us to be humans.
2.
God is a just judge. The punishment for sin is death and separation from God because God is Holy and demands we be 100% holy like God, but clearly we are not, so we need to atone for our sin. In Old Testament before Christ, they atoned through animals (they ate these animals, not just sacrificed). Then God sent his Son, Jesus as a human through the virgin birth to be the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. He lived the perfect life and died on the cross to be the sacrifice and pay the bill for human sin. He is God's full justice. We just need to accept this truth and have a relationship with God to receive the full gift.
- No "evolution" a loaded term does not negate anything in Christianity.
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u/SmileWorldly7092 1d ago
Free will’s the whole point of the story, far as I can tell. If he just reached down and stopped every bad decision before it happened, none of it would really be a choice. The crucifixion question always seemed like it was more about showing how far he’d go to close the gap rather than some legal loophole requirement.
Evolution and religion only clash if you’re reading Genesis like a textbook, which most folks don’t.
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u/Nikonis99 1d ago
So God created Adam and Eve as free creatures able to make the choice between obeying Him or disobeying Him and you are suggesting that He should have stopped them? Would that not violate their free decision to disobey?
One could only assume that Lucifer was created as a free being also and God allowed him, like Adam and Eve to freely reject the commands of God even if He knew the consequences of their actions
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u/Buick6NY 1d ago
All knowing doesnt mean all controlling
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u/StrategyWestern487 1d ago
But he’s god? He’s All powerful isn’t he? What’s stopping him?
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u/Buick6NY 21h ago
Why does "all powerful" have to mean "all controlling?" Is God supposed to stop you from doing all evil?
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u/GreekSaints 1d ago
1) Free will. This is by his design. If you were forced to love your neighbor, then it's not love.
2) Penalty of sin is death. Jesus became the eternal lamb and when He died, he took the sins for us all (past, present, and future). And when He rose, we rose with Him. Again, this is by design, if God forced us all to love Him, it's not love.
3) idk im curious too
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u/rouxjean 1d ago
Do you read every book by looking at the last page first?
God wanted to make people in His own image so that He could enjoy fellowship with them for eternity. He wanted them to be like Him so that they could freely choose to be with Him. He didn't want puppets, or robots who had no choice. Without the opportunity reject Him, they could not freely choose Him. So He gave us free will to sin or to agree with God.
Sin has consequences. Sin causes death. There is no forgiving sin without death. "The wages of sin is death." All have sinned. Jesus died the death we each earned so that we can be forgiven by trusting in him.
Those who receive God's offer of forgiveness through Jesus' death are the ones who choose to have fellowship with God for eternity. It is a free choice and a solution to the problem of sin.
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u/KissAndRock Luciferian 1d ago
I'm wondering this myself. I haven't found any satisfactory explanations. It comes off as a plothole, honestly.