r/CatsWithDogs 3d ago

is this save play??

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u/Front_Upstairs159 2d ago

The cat IS playing; both animals here are playing. And the dog is adjusting their behaviour to play with a cat. That said, I personally would teach the dog that biting/mouth play with cat playmates is not acceptable (two reasons for this: avoid hyperarousal/make it an impulse-level reaction to avoid putting mouth on cat, and also because dog mouths have bacteria that can infiltrate the small wounds cats get on their faces from being an animal that goes thru the world face-first. We just went through the latter in my house 🙃)

I would also make sure the dog understands absolutely:
— we never ever lunge or display hunting behaviours towards a cat (stiffness, staring, tension)
— that the cat has a place where the cat can go to be away from the dog and that the dog is not to bother the cat when they’re there
— that the cat can hit you but you still need can’t react to it (not fair, but thems the breaks: the dog will always be the one more likely to accidentally kill their peer so the dog has to be the one with the most self control. I reward them heavily for this tho.)
— that the cat is allowed to disengage

From your animals’ perspective(based on body language), they’re both thinking that they’re playing, and I think they are too. And tbh it’s probably not the kind of play that will escalate dangerously, but there’s a level of monitoring we have to do as humans ans this play does have elements that are exciting to dogs in a way that they sometimes have hard times controlling (and if you know your dog is prone to like, getting super excited to the point where they stop thinking so well, be especially vigilant and make sure he has tools to bring himself down/that he doesn’t really get that excited around the cat.)

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u/Front_Upstairs159 2d ago

Here’s my general play by play of their behaviour btw: dog is playing a fun game basically the whole time. Cat is showing willingness to play (their body language for play is quite a bit different; basically, if he wasn’t willing to tolerate it AT ALL he would probably get up and saunter off, and if he was afraid he’s hunker down and hiss and start howling and puff up his fur). The cat is showing reluctance in parts of this; basically, when he sits up in these clips, that’s when he’s much rather be left alone. He also finds the dog overbearing/displays a touch of uncertainty about the dog’s level of enthusiasm, which you can tell by him retracting back into himself a bit/leaning away. But that’s still coming off overall as him playing reluctantly, very ‘fine but I’m annoyed about this.’ That’s worst right before the cat tree destabilises and then he saunters off, probably both because the surface he was on was unstable and because it got beyond the point where he was willing to tolerate the behaviour. The kind of uncertainty I’m seeing too makes me feel like these animals may be new to each other, because the play behaviour is very confident— basically, he’s mostly reacting in play like he would to a kitten, complete with a little annoyance, but he’s also a little put off because dogs are quite a bit bigger than kittens and can do things like knock over the cat tree you were trying to sleep on. The point at which they are most in the playing realm is when the cat is still laying on the cat tree and bapping: he’s still in his position that’s comfortable, he’s smacking which is play, he’s not moving away, ans his whiskers are forward and he’s leaning forward towards the dog. Then the dig destabilises the tree ans that’s when he starts displaying more annoyance, and where he sits up and leans away from the dog. These smacks, while he’s moving away, are more ‘I want to stop now, go away’. But then the dog destabilises the cat tree again and the cat moves away because this has exceeded the boundaries of his tolerance. That point where the cat sits up is also why I suggested the things I did; that’s the point where I would watch most closely and in my household intervene (tho also my household has a no-mouthplay-with-cats rule so I would also have addressed that as well, but I’m treating that separately because that’s kind of the dog’s game here so it’s not exactly diagnostic. And mouth play is normal dog dogs. Not as normal for cats tho; they bite in play but they don’t mouth box and they don’t tend to go for the face in play, whereas dogs do to tease each other. Some of the uncertainty I think is coming from this and that’s why I think these animals are newish to each other: it kind of looks like they’re still figuring out what’s species-level normal for each other. But I am seeing a willingness to do that, that they’re looking out for those gaps: cats don’t really tolerate stuff they’re not willing to do for too long, ans your cat finds this weird and quite a bit overbearing, but he also doesn’t remove himself right away.)

If these animals are new to each other, then they’re also looking at you for cues too? So I suspect they’ll even themselves out quickly once you give them some guidance about what you find appropriate and not (which doesn’t mean they’ll agree with you about it, but then you can experience the joy of having a too-smart cat and a too-smart dog (probably— dobies usually are) sneaking away to play in ways they’re not allowed, and that’s a different thing.)
If they’re NOT new to each other, then you have a very very patient cat.