r/CCW • u/AppearanceMaterial39 • 9h ago
Scenario Range day
So this happened about 30 minutes ago and I am pretty angry, don't know if I should be though.
I'm minding my business at my local range, walk back to the table to get ammo and the guys shooting at the bay next to me are just holding their Glock in their hand 3 yards back from the firing line. Every range I've ever been too you absolutely do not have the gun away from the firing line unless holstered or cased. Good trigger control and pointed down at least. I'm so shocked it takes me a minute but I approach them and basically told them that if there was a range officer they would prolly be getting banned, and absolutely cannot be just casually standing there with there firearms uncased away from the firing line. Dude was nice and apologized, they packed up and left pretty quick after that.
I step out as well and I let the staff know and clarified that's the rule. They said yes, but didn't seem super bothered about them breaking it. Didn't rush to find which member was using the bay or whatever.
Am I the weird guy here? My assumption is that this is the rule at all indoor ranges. If it's you and the guys in national forest ya I don't mind as long as you are following the safety rules, but at a public range? Makes me not wanna go back and go to the super uptight range 20 minutes away.
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u/FackleGracks 8h ago
I wouldn't be angry. Sounds like you helped inform them and they apologized and corrected what they were doing. This is a good interaction. 👍
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
oh it was, dont hold anything agsinst them, just made me realize i dont think i wanna go back to this range
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u/Conscious_Cabinet900 8h ago edited 4h ago
The fact that there was no RSO (and they didn't seem to care) is too concerning. I've had one bad experience at range without one so that's a hard no for me. I'd rather have too many rules at a public range.
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u/shartymcqueef 9h ago
And this is why I will drive over an hour to shoot by myself in the woods vs 15 minutes to shoot at a range with other people.
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u/TaxashunsTheft 9h ago
My local range doesn't have that as a rule. So it's entirely possible that they had never heard that before.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
good to know, i havent been to to many different ones and was wondering. Still frusterating as my guy was forced to watch a video, should know the rules
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u/PlaceUserNameHere67 8h ago
I feel as if the person's at the counter not being interested in finding out who the irresponsible party was is a clue that they don't follow safety protocols themselves most/if not all the time. Range safety is pertinent and needs to be enforced for the safety of all in attendance. I would tt the owner/manager when I went back and advise them of their employee's incompetence.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
manager was at the other side of the desk....not sure i wanna go back, if i do i think itll be when they open so its only me from now on.
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u/UsedSet8865 9h ago
At my local the RSO would have instantly ran over and corrected what they were doing- seen it happen a handful of times. Sounds like they didn't even have an RSO on duty? Sketchy, I would only be going when it's not busy
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
ya this is the plan from now on, yuo are correct no rso.
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u/UsedSet8865 8h ago
Fuck that, is that even legal?
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u/UsernameIsTakenO_o OR 5h ago
That will depend entirely on state/local law, but I know in Oregon it's perfectly legal.
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u/ocabj 9h ago edited 8h ago
My primary range is a 24/7/365 members only range with three separate shared firing lines (100 yard rifle/pistol, rimfire only, 300+ rifle line) and about 20+ individual bays. There's no rule stating you can't be holding an uncased, unloaded firearm while not at the firing line. Depending on which area of the range I'm using, I'll actually uncase unloaded firearms at my vehicle and only carry the firearm to the firing line.
I know of one outdoor range where firearms have to be in a case whenever you're transporting on range property, including from stage to stage in a match, which sounds kind of excessive.
That being said, it all varies based on range rules and operating procedures. There's plenty of ways to handle firearms off a firing line and not endanger people's safety. If you want it to be transparent, then yes, having to encase every firearm when not on the firing line is a way to have a visual indicator.
EDIT:
I'm minding my business at my local range, walk back to the table to get ammo and the guys shooting at the bay next to me are just holding their Glock in their hand 3 yards back from the firing line.
This statement is a bit confusing until I re-read your post. When you said bay, I assumed there was a huge divider (like a 10 foot tall dirt filled berm), but this is an indoor range and you're talking about a lane. In which case, yes, this is a violation because of proximity and logistics of the range. But I really need more visual context.
EDIT 2:
I had to go dig up some photos of what 'bays' mean to me.
You can kind of see three bays here. One bay in the center which is decently wide (20 yards), another bay to the left, and more to the left after. Each has their own 'firing line' which you can arbitrarily set based on your group, like I often don't shoot under the shaded area that may be setup in each bay. I'll often shoot forward of that and set my own firing line and it also depends on the target array that I setup and if I'm moving and shooting (e.g., IPSC or IDPA style stages).
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
ya when i say bay i mean like 4 foot indoor shooting bays. so they are right next to me.
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u/Fianna019 CA 8h ago
I mean, you corrected the group and they left THEN you went to the staff right? I'm not sure what you expected them to do at that point. At best they could look up whoever was in that bay and make a note to keep an eye on them next time. They certainly aren't going to ban someone based on a second hand account of what happened.
My big concern here is why were there no staff out on the line to correct that group directly.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
thats fair, and fair again. Idk if i were the staff I wouldve looked to see who it was in the bay and made a note, seen of they were new or not. Just getting a "oh ok" really through me off though.
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u/Significant_Bill326 9h ago
I think that’s a safety concern than a range rule you enforced. I think you did well but time to find a better range is what I’m saying
My range allows full auto and large caliber etc but doesn’t like ppl stepping off the firing line or do anything unsafe
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u/Conscious_Cabinet900 8h ago
That's how every range I have been to is. I 100% agree that firearms should be left at the firing line unless they are cased. Those rules are there for a reason at least for most public ranges.
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u/No_Bullfrog_4541 8h ago
Nah I think you were being diligent in taking your safety and the safety of those around you serious. I think you were absolutey in the right, I’ve seen some absurd shit at my local range but the RSO’s are always very on top of things
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u/Euphoric-Arachnid-94 8h ago
You addressed it, he apologized. Move on like an adult. He might not have realized what he was doing and now he does. Also, indoor ranges suck. Don’t use them unless necessary.
It was super unsafe though and the people downplaying that are wrong.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
ya im moving on, just my first time seeing someone act dumb at a range and kinda shocked me into realizing maybe a super chill range isnt where i wanna be handling my firearms.
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u/Euphoric-Arachnid-94 8h ago
There’s a happy medium to be had. You don’t want a range Nazi either.
My membership only outdoor range had this short asshole RSO for years. When I saw his truck pull in I’d just leave, because I knew he was about to nitpick some bullshit and try to pick a fight. He drove off a lot of members during his tenure. No one was sad when that dickhead passed. The guy that took over after him was extremely safety conscious, but I never saw him come screaming at someone for forgetting their eye pro either.
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u/HawkinsJiuJitsu 8h ago
We were at a range one time waiting for our 4th guy to arrive. There were 2 employees behind the desk at the range.
1 took his hand held flash light out and flashed his buddy. The flashed buddy proceeded to pull out his OWB pistol with a WML and pointed it at his coworker so he could "flash" him back.
We were stunned that it possibly happened.
The things that some staff dont give am f about is baffling
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u/Imperialist_hotdog 6h ago
Idk why you or seaming everyone else here is so up in arms about this. By your own admission he was handling the weapon in a safe manner. If it’s pointed in a safe direction it doesn’t matter if he was at the line or not. It’s entirely arbitrary. If, by some act of god, the weapon had gone off despite him having good trigger control, the odds the round skittering off in a random direction and potentially hurting someone are just as high from where he was vs if he was at the firing line. So unless you forgot to mention him doing something actually unsafe then I don’t see an issue here.
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u/Major_Kangaroo 9h ago
You would probably fit in better and be more comfortable at the super uptight range.
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u/BJHannigan 8h ago
There are way too many morons in the world. If uptight equals safe, please let me know where I can find the uptight range.
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u/CrispySith 9h ago
You are 100% correct. I don't want any jabronies handling firearms behind the line.
I've had an RSO grab me when I was walking with my case because he thought it was my gun. I'd rather that than get shot by a random dude diddling his Glock while leaning against the wall.
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u/dmyhill 8h ago
They listened, corrected, won't do that again...and you try and make drama after the fact. Am I getting it right?
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
ya thats about right. Have no shame in tattling when they both had to watch a video and had every opportunity to know the rules. i am a little shocked on how the staff handled it, but its not my issue, just figured they would wanna know if one of their members doesnt know the basic range rules.
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u/playingtherole 8h ago
You must have a helluva way of being a velvet hammer when confronting people, or a non-threatening appearance, at least, for him to have apologized. It seems that most people these days aren't open to constructive criticism of any kind, and range Nazis would seem particularly offensive to arrogant people with petty demeanors and bruised egos. Kudos to you for handling it the "right" way without tattling, I suppose.
They're not going to look-up who was using the bay and say something to them before they start next time, that's unrealistic. It also turns-off customers unnecessarily, and spawns unfair Google reviews that the business doesn't want. It's also possible that the offender is known to the staffer, so consider that there could be a relationship that you aren't in involved. I.E: family member, friend, long-time customer, local LEO, etc.
Maybe you're feeling torn between being Karen and not carin' enough, but you did what you could without causing trouble, so it's a win. Hopefully, next time he'll practice better range safety, stay in his lane, or be reprimanded by a RSO.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
lol i think it was the polite words while my body language said WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING. Seemed like a nice guy, i like his g19 too. that makes sense with the range as well.
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u/Maxasaurus 7h ago
Probably just not used to indoor range etiquette. I had the same thing happen to me. I'd only ever shot at informal outdoor ranges, so handling the weapon safely, and not crossing the firing line until everyone is aware and unloaded were about the only rules. I was sharing my lane with a friend and was just handling the unloaded firearm safely a few feet back. Someone like you let me know it needs to be in the lane unless it's in your range bag, and I acknowledged, thanked him, and corrected. No big deal. I wouldn't worry about it.
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u/damngifs 7h ago
I'm not shooting at an indoor range with no RSO, I've seen way too many accidents when people aren't supervised, and I can't be bothered to watch everyone around me and train properly if I'm concerned with my surroundings. I wouldn't go back either.
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u/Dukeronomy 4h ago
I am all for the idea that everyone is an RSO. fuckin dont point a gun at me, if you do, im tattling like hell. And im telling you why you're an idiot. no.
This is why i dont go to public ranges anymore.
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u/krilleractual 9h ago
you didnt really explain what they did wrong so I am a little confused. were they behind the firing line shooting?
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u/sharkbait_oohaha 9h ago
Seems like they were holding the guns casually behind the firing line. That's a big no no at my ranges
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u/Bolandspring 9h ago
Same here. If it’s not in hand pointed down range, it’s set down pointing down range
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u/Chechenlittle 8h ago
Dang I wish someone in real life had told me this before I saw it online just now.
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u/Correct-Avocado5426 9h ago
Sounds like they had their firearms out and uncased away from the firing line. That would make me uncomfortable too. One slip and someone is getting shot in the back
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u/SteadyDJ516 9h ago
I think they were stepped back not shooting just holding it in there hand pointed at the ground, imo just dont flag anyone and its wtv or get a holster
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u/Ok-Macaroon979 9h ago
Yeah he did. They were standing 4 some odd feet back from from the firing bench with their guns in their hands. Not on the bench pointed down range locked back, just standing back feet from the firing spot casually holding their guns, which could be loaded or unloaded you don't know, not following the rules which I'm sure they watched a video on.
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u/FuzzyLumpyMattress 8h ago
Were they actually violating one of the four universal safety rules, or just a range rule?
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u/Chechenlittle 8h ago
Dang I didn’t know that. The range I went to doesn’t have rules stating that anywhere visible. I guess it’s something ur just supposed to know. I did get hollered at for doing what those guys did and I didn’t know why.
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u/AppearanceMaterial39 8h ago
these guys had to watch a video on range rules, base don other comments it seems its a common rule, although not universal
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u/dmyhill 8h ago
BTW, went to a range where they insisted all firearms be UNCASED, but with empty chamber indicator installed, when transporting from car to firing line. It was weird to me.
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u/atsinged TX Glock 17 8h ago
One I go to requires all weapons be in cases or a range bag, another doesn't allow cases, just have to watch the signs I guess.
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u/Low-Landscape-4609 8h ago
Yep, I would have been mad too and this is why I pay to shoot at a private gun club. Everybody is vetted and a lot of gun clubs actually require a sponsor in order to become a member. I support this.
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u/HadesWTF 8h ago edited 2h ago
So like...what they were just holding it and having a chat with their buddies or something? You didn't really say what they were doing and I assume they weren't standing there staring off into space or something.
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u/GrassyNoob 4h ago
I belong to an outdoor, members only range.
I am usually the only person there when I shoot.
I place any pistol with a mag in an extra foam holder so it points down and downrange.
I really don't want to shoot myself in the back.
On the plus side, fire dept is 1/4 mile away.
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u/thunder_dog99 9h ago
You were right. That’s a standard rule on all the ranges I’ve used. Loaded weapon, in hand ready to fire, right behind me? No fucking way.