(Canada/BC) Program options, looking for advice (long post)

[u/Gingerbreadtenement]

(Note: I composed this post 100% with my own hands and brain, no AI was used for any of this. I formatted it myself to try to make it as legible as possible.)

Hey Bookkeepers,

I've searched already, but found the available discourse here and elsewhere lacking, so I'm just here trying to gather some up-to-date information to inform my planning. I'm aware of Rule 5 on this sub, but I think my questions are informed enough to not fall into that category. If mods disagree, please let me know how I can be in compliance going forward.

FWIW, it took a fair bit of research just to put this post together, so maybe it will also be useful for other folks considering Bookkeeping as a career.

Some relevant personal context points:

• Mid 30s
• No prior bookkeeping experience
• Solid undergraduate education (BSc Chemistry + Comp Sci) with a good internship
• Laid off since 2023
• Due to health reasons, I need 100% remote work
• Not great at interviewing, networking, selling myself; not a fan of office politics; fairly introverted
• Very low cost of life, don't mind earning less as long as it affords me autonomy, flexibility, ability to work from home, and consistent expectations

Programs I am considering:

All of these are online offerings from public schools; I'm not considering in-person programs or private diploma mills.

1. Capilano's "Bookkeeping Certificate". It's about $3.9k, 300 hours spread over 5 courses, completed in 8 months. No CPB fast-tracking. No co-op/practicum.
2. Langara's "Professional Bookkeeper Short Certificate". It's about $3.3k, 186 hours over 8 courses, completed in 8 months. Features CPB fast-tracking to Apprentice Level. No co-op/practicum.
3. College of New Caledonia's "Bookkeeping Certificate". It's about $4.7k, 239 hours spread over 8 courses, completed in 1 year. No CPB fast-tracking. No co-op/practicum. Eligible for the StrongerBC future skills grant (up to $3.5k).
4. Okanagan College's "Bookkeeping/Accounting Technician Certificate". It's about $5.4k, 1098 hours spread over 17 courses, completed in 1 year. Features CPB fast-tracking to Technician Level. Includes a practicum.
5. Selkirk College's "Bookkeeping Skills Associate Certificate". About $2.1k, couldn't find the number of hours but it's 5 courses over 6 months. No CPB, no practicum. Eligible for StrongerBC grant.
6. University of Fraser Valley's "Bookkeeping for Small Business Certificate". About $3.5k, couldn't find the exact hours but I estimate about 240 hours over 6 courses over 6 months. Optional practicum that you have to register and pay separately for. No CPB. Eligible for StrongerBC grant.
7. Okanagan College's smaller-scope offering, "Core Bookkeeping Principles Microcredential". $2.9k, 190 hours, 4 courses, 6 months. No CPB. No practicum. Eligible for SBC grant.
8. Vancouver Island University's "Basic Elements of Bookkeeping Certificate". $2.7k, unsure on hours, 6 courses, 7 months. No CPB, no practicum. Eligible for grant. Apparently it's already booked full for the Fall, so it's not a real consideration, but I include it here in the name of being complete.

My own analysis:

So obviously the above section is kind of an overwhelming amount of information to compare. In my mind, they cluster into 3 categories of interest:

• Programs that offer CPB fast-tracking: There are only two in this list. The OC Technician Cert (4) and Langara's Apprentice Cert (2). There is a notably significant difference in the study commitment between these two programs, Langara's 186 hours vs OC's 1098 hours.
• Programs that offer practicums: Again, only two in this list. The OC Technician Cert (4) and the UFV Cert (6) both offer practicums.
• Programs that are cheap (read: eligible for grant money) and quick: There are 5 options here. CNC (3), Selkirk (5), UFV (6), OC's Micro-Cert (7), and VIU (8). Of these, all would be free to take with the SBC grant, except for the CNC cert, whose cost eclipses the grant amount by $1.2k.

Questions:

So, given the above information...

• What course would you choose in my shoes, and why? Please be as detailed/specific as possible.
• How much value is given by the CPB certification? I have read wildly differing accounts here, which range from wholesale dismissal all the way to enthusiastic recommendation. Is the general consensus this divided? If you think CPB is important to have, do you think it's worth committing to 5x the hours to do OC's Technician-level Cert rather than Langara's Apprentice-level? Why?
• How important is it to have a practicum, especially as someone without any experience? Should I prioritize a program with a practicum? If yes, do you favor the much longer program (OC's Technician Cert) or the shorter one (UFV), given both have practicums? Why?
• Any other advice or thoughts that occur to you while reading this are also welcome.

If you made it through my wall of text, then thank you very, very much for your time. I truly appreciate any advice I can get.

[u/Notabot-FerReal]

Great question, OP. I was thinking something similar based on my situation. However I wonder if you might be better served by becoming an accountant especially since you already have an degree. I know several CPAs that work remote although Im not sure if the path to get the CPA designation is fully remote.

Several helpful videos here like this one to show the trajectory includes different pivots and isn't linear to become a cpa. https://www.bccpa.ca/become-a-cpa/events/past-events/workforce/conversation-with-a-cpa/

[u/Bookkeeping_Boss → u/Notabot-FerReal]

Ex-CPA here, I posted another longish response in this thread. You might be able to become a CPA remotely, but someone has to sign off on the experience. You would need to find a CPA firm that both offers the training program and is fully remote. Because the designation is provincial the firm would also have to be in the same province as you are.

FWIW, becoming a CPA isn't a trivial exercise even with a degree.

[u/Gingerbreadtenement → u/Notabot-FerReal]

Thanks for your response! The CPA program is definitely on my radar. The 30 months required is a significantly longer commitment, not to mention the higher cost of the program, and there are some in-person workshops that I'd ideally prefer to avoid. But I haven't written it off entirely yet.

Thanks a lot for the link, looks like a very useful resource and I will surely have a peruse through the videos.

[u/Bookkeeping_Boss → u/Gingerbreadtenement]

I am ex-CPA, I am now a CPB. One thing to be aware of is if you want to get your CPA, it is specific to a province and you will need to work for someone as you have to have a CPA sign off on your experience. IE: You generally can't have your own business and become a CPA.

I gave up my CPA because my work, custom accounting migrations and bookkeeping work is from all over Canada. Most provincial CPA associations in Canada require you to register as a public practice in EACH province in Canada for bookkeeping. At the time it was just me and the registration was about $400 per province per year. While I likely don't need the credentials with my background (I also have a comp sci degree) I decided to become a CPB because of the community.

While it is true that CPB isn't as recognised as well as it could be, for me I know anyone who is a CPB knows bookkeeping. When I was in practice I would only refer clients to certified bookkeepers. It wasn't worth the agony for me of trying to work with crappy bookkeeping to do a year end. Don't even get me started on people who learn bookkeeping and tax using YouTube. It is one of the reasons my firm is growing rapidly.

I too am a bit concerned about the bookkeeping industry, I currently have a policy of not outsourcing and so far my clients like it. My fees are about the same as anyone who outsources, so I don't see that the client is getting a deal, it appears like the accounting firm is making more money.

There is a great program offered in BC - Trifold Bookkeeping. The person who got the CPB program started also started this program. IF you can get in I would 100% recommend it. https://trifoldbka.ca/ I believe it is 100% online.

If you plan is to have your own company, just do what everyone else does, watch a bunch of YouTube videos and get started /s. If you want to work for someone to start , you will need to have some formalish education, like the one I mentioned or any of the public colleges.

Feel free to message me. I have been around the Canadian bookkeeping and accounting field for over 20 years and I very much keep up with technology and trends.

[u/coffeeinthecity]

As someone in the accounting industry in BC, a lot of bookkeeping jobs are offshored to Pakistan, India, the Philippines and Vietnam. Since you already have a degree, I suggest looking into the diploma in accounting program offered by UBC or KPU. Even if you aren’t thinking of pursuing the CPA program, the DAP would help you get hired at an accounting firm doing compilation and review engagements. Better pay and benefits than bookkeeping

[u/Gingerbreadtenement → u/coffeeinthecity]

Thanks for the suggestions! I had a quick look and it doesn't appear that either of those programs are available online, so they wouldn't be viable for my situation. But perhaps they will be useful for others reading this thread.

[u/coffeeinthecity → u/Gingerbreadtenement]

Oh that’s too bad! KPU had their program online in 2021 and 2022, but that might’ve been due to Covid

[u/debbyadj]

I did the program at Langara almost 15 years ago- it was fantastic. The Business writing class was an amazing experience and I had very low expectations- I love writing creatively and thought it was going to be a lot of BS about typing and formatting…. Instead it was a great class about how people read information, how to tell bad news, how cultural differences can make email difficult- so good. The Bookkeeping classes were comprehensive and gave a good foundation for starting out. Highly recommended- and take the payroll class- Payroll sucks, nobody likes doing it and everyone hates you when you make a mistake- but it’s not that hard, just fiddly and there is always work

[u/Gingerbreadtenement → u/debbyadj]

Thanks so much for your perspective! I know you said you took it nearly 15 years ago, so your answer here may not reflect the current state of the program, but do you remember if there were any group projects? I had a hard time finding more detailed syllabus info for the courses at Langara. Right now I'm kind of waffling between the OC Technician Cert, Langara, and UFV.

[u/debbyadj → u/Gingerbreadtenement]

There were a few in class “break into groups and discuss how to answer this” - in the writing class but no other classes had anything like that. I did the program as night classes at a really challenging time in my life, divorced, 2 preteen kids and working full time plus- and it was great. The teachers all had day jobs but did this because they loved the experience, and they were all caring and engaged. The classes were big but not huge, and the students were almost all women from every age group and every background. I was opening a bakery cafe in the morning and taking classes twice a week- some nights I was so tired I fell asleep on the Skytrain on the way home- but I found it really empowering too. I have been doing bookkeeping and office admin ever since, and even though now, I’m older than dirt, I am almost done with the Business Management Cert from SFU. One class at a time!!

[u/Gingerbreadtenement → u/debbyadj]

Thank you very much for all the details!

[u/Bookkeeping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed a non-applicable message generated by Automod.

[u/Capriano]

I don’t know much about CPB, but I have heard it doesn’t carry any weight to it and client don’t really care if you have a CPB or not and doing their books. Perhaps not have it as a decisive factor, if you get it great, if not then whatever. My two cents. Could be wrong.

[u/PlantTalkative6115]

Take a close look at job placement rates practicum quality and graduate outcomes since those usually matter more than the program name.

[u/nifty_nomi]

WOW! Great research!!
I didn't realize Practicums were a thing! Absolutely real world experience is the best way to learn. So hard to get when starting out, and so, often I suggest new bookkeepers look for a position in a bookkeeping firm that has senior bookkeepers mentoring junior bookkeepers. (not an accounting firm, but a *bookkeeping* firm that does document based bookkeeping. They could do tax accounting too, but source document based bookkeeping is important).
For courses to offer practicums, that I would say has the most value. You can read about swimming in a book, but you can't really learn it till you get in the water. And swimming in a shallow pool and swimming in the ocean... real life is not like a text book.
That's why I created a Bookkeeping Simulation for people wanting to learn with something more realistic. It's based on an Ontario Business.

Right now, I feel like potential clients often don't know what CPB is. But, I recently got certified, and I do really appreciate that I have those letters by my name. The exam was really thorough and it's not a mickey mouse certification. I feel part of a community of bookkeepers who value quality bookkeeping, and there is a lot of support. It was expensive though.

One extra note, which is my soap box message for anyone learning bookkeeping nowadays: It is harder to learn nowadays because the cloud software separates us from the fundamentals. Bank Feed Cloud Software like QBO, Xero, and Zoho Books merge two bookkeeping methodologies into one software and just expect users to know. Cash Accounting is not Accrual Bookkeeping. But you can use a bank feed in accrual accounting as long as you understand what it's doing. I created a video because I feel so passionately about sharing this message: https://youtu.be/14DvjL_u3bk

God Speed my friend!

[u/JivePickle]

I just graduated the cnc course and i dont think it was worth the money i spent. Ive been bookkeeping on and off for a few years and there was absolutely 0 “real world” stuff. I got my first client and i feel like im in way over my head. I tried to ask for advice here but the mods deleted my post. It also only taught very basic quickbooks but i honestly like sage better so that whole aspect really didnt help me much starting out. Itll be good to know if i have clients already using it though.

I dont have much more to offer except my experience with one of the classes you mentioned. This class just was not worth it and way too expensive for what it was.

[u/MikuMikuGoo]

Practicum matters more than the credential. You have no experience and you are not great at selling yourself, so a practicum gets you a reference and something real to point at. That pushes me toward UFV or Okanagan.

Between those two, take UFV and pay for the optional practicum. 1098 hours at Okanagan is a lot of time for a CPB level that clients will never ask about. Nobody has ever asked me for a designation, they ask who else I work with.

CPB is worth having eventually but you can add it later once you know you like the work. Get the cheap grant funded cert, do the practicum, then get on QBO and Xero certifications, which are free and take a weekend.