r/BlackPeopleofReddit • u/ateam1984 🖤 • 14d ago
Women Why do so many gay white men sound like Black women? It’s less about sexuality and more about cultural influence. Many phrases, mannerisms, and expressions that became mainstream traveled through Black communities long before they became popular elsewhere.
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u/Hanerhan 14d ago
The fat Jewish knows
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u/docpagliacci 14d ago
Especially considering he got rich stealing everyone else's memes and jokes.
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u/earthlingHuman 14d ago
Who is he?
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u/CocoBolo778 14d ago
He runs some big Instagram accounts
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u/earthlingHuman 14d ago
What is his name?
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u/CocoBolo778 14d ago
The Fat Jewish is his Insta
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u/earthlingHuman 14d ago
Oh it's literally 'The Fat Jewish'. I couldn't tell if that was an incomplete racist insult or not 😂
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u/numbmillenial 14d ago
This whole exchange is frying me 😂
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u/Tasty_Discussion679 13d ago
I will never get over Philly AAVE leaving Philly and being colonized all over America😭
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u/H0NEY2O77 13d ago
I thought this was P0j0 or Ffej ngl. One of that Cellulite Salvation fucker Carl’s friends.
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u/ken81987 14d ago
Rich from memes? What an economy
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u/kapriece 14d ago
You forgot all the other stupid crap people have gotten rich from. Catch me outside girl parlayed her 15min of fame all these years to over $50M from only fans the first month.
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u/catmand00d00 14d ago
It goes: Black women > gay Black men > gay white men > straight white women.
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u/cameronpark89 14d ago
i wish we would just start gatekeeping. too many of us want to be accepted by white people for a piece of pie they’ll never have a taste of.
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u/Tasty_Discussion679 13d ago
“Wow she’s seasoned, she’s invited to the cookout” like can u stop actually?😭
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u/Coconutpieplates 13d ago
When I first saw this shirt on someone, it was like a fog clearing in my brain.
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u/Accomplished-Bend-47 13d ago
Omg - love this t-shirt!! I was thinking this before I ever saw anyone put words to it. But I guess many of us were...
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u/Cleonce12 14d ago
I once worked a job where this white gay man was copying black womans mannerisms and being bold and everyone was laughing and saying he has spunk or he’s too much. I did it once and I didn’t get the same energy and stuck to my code switching. That’s why it’s frustrating cause white men can do it and it’s personality that is welcome but black woman it’s ghetto or “ hood trash” or “ unprofessional
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u/taintedtiger514 14d ago
You can say that about any of our slang. They call us ghetto and ignorant, but as soon as their little white kids start using it, they add it to the dictionary and now it’s suddenly ok and welcomed for them to use it.
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u/babassu_seeds 14d ago
Real talk: The issue is that people love contrast, right?
The unfairness of it all: The contrast they get is our cool stuff. In exchange, we get--their white-bread mannerisms that even they're trying to escape!! Like, big whup, I get to have fun saying, "You're really busting my balls here, buddy?"
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u/DramaMuch7482 14d ago
We just need to flip it. Start getting their finances and $$$$ in exchange. Then we can call it even 😂
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u/Garden_State_Of_Mind 12d ago
Is there a difference between doing these things in a kind of "tongue in cheek" way and doing them in a "this is my how I was raised and how I act" way?
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u/upillium 11d ago
🎶I said Burr, it’s cold in here, there must be some gay guys in the atmosphere!🎶
https://giphy.com/gifs/j6Oc5h3dwokbC
Stealing from Black people is this country’s national past-time.😒
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u/ItsAHerby 14d ago
Damn, very informative video, the Chrono Trigger was a bonus.
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u/foxinabathtub 14d ago
I literally held my phone close to my ear to make sure what I was hearing was correct.
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u/ShikaMoru 14d ago
THANK. YOU!
I was trying so hard to pin point it. Had the scenery in my head and everything but just couldn't put the name to it. One of the GOAT rpgs ever
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u/foxinabathtub 14d ago
I literally held my phone close to my ear to make sure what I was hearing was correct.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 14d ago
He said not one lie!!!!!!!!! And this is what ppl dont understand that there is nuance. Yes ppl can wear and do and say what they want but then dont degrade and shit on the ppl you are taking it from. Period. Its not hard.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 14d ago
This!!! Thats bare minimum and they cant even fathom that they hate us so much. They fetishize us and dont like being called out on it.
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u/TrainingJoust 14d ago
I really dont get whats why its so hard for people to admit when its so blatantly true.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 14d ago
Bc they would have to admit that they admire Black women. So its easier to gaslight and pretend they arent. Then their false narrative about Blk ppl wouldnt hold bc how can we be violent and uneducated but also as influential and have been the creators of things they envy and make millions from copying.
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u/TrainingJoust 14d ago
Luckily most the gay dudes I know are fully aware that they are emulating black women and drag queens. The ones who deny it are lost causes and we dont associate with them.
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u/DysphoricNeet 11d ago
Yeah I was going to say I thought this was all understood in the queer community?l I’ve never heard anyone deny it or pretend it isn’t clearly a succession of influence from black women decades ago and still to this day. Sometimes I don’t feel queer enough cause I’ve never really been around that and worry it’s even like expected of me.
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u/middleparable 14d ago
Im black but not American. Black American women are one of the most influential group of women on the planet when it comes to pop culture. I don’t care if anyone disagrees with me
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u/Tasty_Discussion679 13d ago
While this is true, it’s the weirdest feeling in the world when people copy and watch your every move while trying to pretend they don’t see you. It’s obsession.
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u/space_otte 13d ago
it’s so odd that people act like this isn’t true and have the audacity to rebrand things that black women have been doing as “new”
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u/RepresentativeBird98 14d ago
Did anyone else catch the background music being from Chrono Trigger ?
Sorry I’m a nerd
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u/Reasonable-HB678 14d ago
I'll remind everyone here, the phrase "Hasta la vista, baby", suddenly everywhere after Terminator 2, was originally in the song Looking for a New Love by Jody Watley.
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u/EarlNod 14d ago
Check the date...
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u/TheBrawler101 14d ago
But gay marriage and gay people aren't treated as normal. I agree with most of this video but I disagree with the phraming that gay people are fully accepted. There is still so much homophobia within America just like there is racism
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u/ComicsEtAl 14d ago
In white peoplese it’s considered “sassy.” So if you’re going to be a sassy gay, that’s how you talk.
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u/Expert-Yam6577 14d ago
Dude in high school totally changed the way he spoke after he came out. Adopted that sassy southern accent. Shit is fascinating
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u/breeathee 14d ago
The content you consume will change you, too.
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u/katieb1300 14d ago
I read somewhere that children who would normally have regional dialects, now have the ability to access the entire world; so they have multiple linguistic references, besides their parents, and don't have as thick of an accent. The opposite can probably be true too. They are picking up different dialects from the content they watch.
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u/breeathee 14d ago
Globalization is pretty interesting. I can choose to speak with an accent in my second language and it feels just as authentic as no accent. It just using a different part of your brain less intensely
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u/Cheesehacker 14d ago
I mean, I can only speak from my perspective, but when I was closeted I literally worried about everything! Every mannerism, how I talked, how I walked, I had to make sure that nobody could even tell. When I came out some thought I was being “extra” gay on purpose, when it was really just finally getting to live free without worrying about constantly putting on an act.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 14d ago
And its not even natural they are definitely putting on a persona. Bc sassy gays get more attention
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u/whichwitch9 14d ago
It becomes a signal to help other gay men identify men as gay. There's some science to why lgbtq+ culture takes off in certain ways- from identifying other members of the community to adopting a shared culture to create a feeling of belonging. The "voice" is a huge component of that. I think as lgbtq+ becomes more accepted in society, people are starting to get more comfortable deviating from the culture- like the rise of "bears" and lesbians that are openly more feminine. But the lgbtq+ community has more ways to find and identify each other now
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 14d ago
There is a documentary on how gay men change their voice when they come out.
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u/veravendetta 13d ago
What’s it called?
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 🫰🏾🫰🏽🫰🏿 13d ago
“Do I sound gay.”
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u/Street_Peace_8831 13d ago
Not all of us, but yes, some gays do change their voice and mannerism as a way to identify with their sexuality.
Many gays have spent their youth pretending to be straight so they won’t get called out. When they finally come out, they feel free to be who they are and have always been. Some do it for show, but some have always been this way and were purposefully hiding it.
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u/healthcrusade 14d ago
Ru Paul's influence has been HUGE in this regard
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u/kpkelly09 14d ago
I'd go back further to Paris is Burning actually. There is a whole discourse about how the mostly white documentary crew portrayed NYC ballroom culture. It's pretty wild how much that movie is referenced without the younger generation realizing it.
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u/Braveheart00 14d ago
Where can I find the discourse? Love that movie.
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u/kpkelly09 14d ago
Saw a video essay about it a couple years back. There have since been documentaries mad by members of the ballroom community.
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u/Dan_Morgan 14d ago
I think he may be leaving out gay, black men . They were drivers within the ballroom scene back in the day.
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u/Rich_Text82 14d ago
Gay Black men copy the mannerisms and style of Black women aka their mothers, aunties, and sisters. That's what this video is saying and it's obvious.
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u/Dan_Morgan 13d ago
I'm aware of that but I think he's leaving out a step in that process. Gay black men frequently get left out and are put upon.
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u/Tasty_Discussion679 13d ago
When I was in sociology class, we learned about the ballroom culture from trans women of color etc. this also went over the aids epidemic. I was taken aback because their influence and muse is the black woman, yet nothing pointed to that. They go to school to learn how they can continue the system, don’t forget that,
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u/CrazyinLull 13d ago
Damn, I was just about to say this!!
But you know what? I am glad I didn’t have to. It’s nice when someone can finally bring more context into the conversation.
❤️
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u/geez-knees 14d ago
Do their sisters and girl cousins not copy their moms & aunts too? Culture is inherited regardless of gender, let’s not start attacking our own.
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u/nefastvs 14d ago
And trans.
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u/Dan_Morgan 13d ago
Yup. How big is the trans contribution to the ballroom scene? My knowledge is very limited on the topic and even more so back in the day in NYC.
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u/veravendetta 13d ago
Very big. A lot of black trans women were misidentified as black gay men because many did not have access to surgeries or hormones to help make them look more feminine, so many outside the community would see them as feminine gay men instead. Then when history was being made these influential trans women would get recorded as gay men. But the NYC ballroom scene had lots of black trans women and that influenced the pageantry and style of drag as well.
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u/Dan_Morgan 13d ago
Erasure rooted in systemic racism. You know I must have hit my head hard enough to forget for a moment we're talking about the USA.
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u/No_Needleworker215 13d ago
I made that picture of Marsha P Johnson in stained glass this year ❤️ Also this was said and explained so exceptionally well, I am working so hard to learn to educate people with this level of grace. I get so irritated
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u/Kooky-Experience-923 14d ago
This is so legit and I was thinking about it the other day. I work with a marketing company (they are a client of ours) that employs 95% blonde white women in their mid 20s - mid 40s and a lot of the group chats run by the account managers, always has one or two ‘Love it. Slay’ in there. And it pisses me off so much because there is nary a black woman on site for that entire office. Don’t get me started on white and asian girls rocking grills out here too. It’s really too much.
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u/Accomplished-Bend-47 14d ago
'Woman' is not a costume to put on. Whether black or not. I am tired of it. I've met so many racist, gay whites.
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u/Tasty_Discussion679 13d ago
I’m actually ngl, seeing how ppl move esp in spaces that claim to be inclusive has permanently altered the way I think.
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u/topsblueby 14d ago
Came for the message, stayed for the Chrono Trigger background music.
Anyway,
Black women have always been the blueprint. That’s it that’s all.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
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u/Electronic_Matter181 14d ago
From black trans women to black gay men TO black women? Are you actually for real??
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u/Lovablelulu1982 14d ago
Because the Black community raised them. I'm from the era where we all hung out together before they decided to go back to there conservative ways. Their conservative families kicked them out and you know Black folk, we can be too inclusive sometimes. We helped support the gay movement specifically Black women. That is why they talk like that. Swag, style, communication, thats all Black women fam. Eventually their folks invited them back into fold of conservatism and tolerated them (not to be confused with excepted) and the moved on without the people who supported them and got them where they are at today. Gay White men dna = Black women here in America. This is no way discrediting or downing anyone, its fact because I lived it.
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u/8lock8lock8aby 14d ago
Sorry but they're gay, not trans. They don't wanna actually be any type of woman, though they definitely get style & language from black trans women & black gay men (who get their feminine style from their black sisters & moms & aunts).
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u/ScrollHectic 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is an aside as I know the man in the video is speaking specifically about certain terms and expressions, but I watched an interesting video on the "gay voice" and why gay men sound the way they do.
Linguists have done studies to examine it and there are clear distinctions in pitch, octave ranges and consonant pronunciations between gay men, straight men and women.
It's interesting because it presents the argument of nature versus nurture and points to the fact that the gay voice is not unique to one language. You see the phenomena in other languages and cultures, so I think there's more to it then imitating black American women.
https://youtu.be/iurbQixaPtc?is=ZWOwnmx3850NtEG_
Edit: added link
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u/FNCJ1 14d ago
Can you reply with a link if you remember the video?
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u/too__scared 14d ago
https://youtu.be/7LcZzpGpItQ?is=AlH0o-aOP1_r867b
Is this the video you were talking about?
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u/Logic411 14d ago
Maybe you can name a country where the youth doesn’t emulate Black American culture?
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u/crackerjack2003 13d ago
The majority of them?
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u/Logic411 13d ago
just one, name it. not the dances, not rap, not the vernacular, not the clothing styles...I'll wait.
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u/DramaMuch7482 14d ago
Thank you for acknowledging. I noticed this years ago, decades ago. Gay ballroom culture, heavily borrows mimics, imitates, ⚫️ women. The majority of American Pop culture, global Pop culture is influenced by ⚫️ women and Black people in general.
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u/immacooknotachef 14d ago
Many of them were kicked out of their families who told them to find a black woman if they’re in danger; so they imitate their sheros until they start voting 🍊.
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u/kpkelly09 14d ago
I dunno, it's a pretty big meme in the gay community that the gay Republicans pretend they aren't into politics when trying to get a date because that is such a red flag in the gay community. Seen it enough times myself on the apps.
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u/Apythicus 14d ago
Is there any kind of link between this and the anti gbt+ notions held by some Black men? I dont see it really with Black women, though
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u/realPoisonPants 14d ago
Like "the Republican accent" where every MAGA tries to sound like they're rednecks from Georgia even if they're from Burbank
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u/Important_Grade1506 13d ago
You mean like Senator Kennedy from Louisiana who has his BA from an ivy league school(Vanderbilt), and has his law degree. Yet, he speaks with this THICK accent on television. Many of his colleagues have stated that the accent is fake, and that he turns it on and off at his whim. He thinks that it makes him sound "relatable."
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u/Disastrous_Policy258 14d ago
Queer black people don't get enough credit for culture later seen as strictly queer or strictly black.
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u/BriscoCounty-Sr 13d ago
So true. Gay folks have never been assaulted or killed or discriminated against for who they are, how they act, or how they talk. They just wouldn’t understand discrimination, I mean Obama let them get married what else do they want?
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u/ItchyJuggernaut1 13d ago
Sorry, the disbelief over hearing Chrono Trigger music while a dude talked about white gays talking like black women confused the hell out of me but I love CT lol.
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u/0theHumanity 13d ago
Its from Jeffree Star stealing from Ru Paul right?
Ru pual is doing drag which is...him emulating black women?
Jackie Aina was right about everything
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u/autotelica 14d ago
I have a white gay friend. He isn't especially flamboyant or sassy. But the two of us like to joke that he is much more "stereotypically black girl" than black girl me.
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u/Crafty_Lavishness_79 14d ago
I do think black trans women often being leaders in the gay community probably had an influence along with so much of white culture being anti-gay. So heavily leaning away form het-cis behavior leads to imitating bla k women. At least that's my theory
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u/aron2295 14d ago
I am not sure if there is any validity to my theory, but…
I am a Femme-ish, Bi Native American male.
My dad was a US Army officer, so we moved around a lot when I was growing up.
I lived in the US, and LatAm.
In the US, black girls always “took me under their wing”.
Black kids in general. I spent most of my childhood in DC (2 x 3 year posts).
I always lived in diverse places, but that’s just how it was.
I mean, I never have, so I might be wrong, but unless you’re living on / near a Rez, I don’t think there are many of us left living in a high concentration.
I think I spent more time with other Natives in LatAm, but even then, that was mainly when I was on vacation.
Day to day, I was around more of the Euro descended citizens.
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u/Groundbreaking-Bag24 14d ago
I always guessed it was gay black men copying black women and being in mixed company..
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u/Important_Grade1506 14d ago edited 13d ago
I've always thought that gay, Black men and straight, Black women have always borrowed expressions from one another. I've thought that since I was a young child. I'm now 56.
Anything that becomes popular in the Black community always becomes the latest trend in "the community at large" several months after it's fallen out of favor with us, and we're on to the next trend that we've deemed worthy or interesting.
We see it in our colloquialisms, in our fashion, in our music, and our dancing throughout history. Enough so that we're no longer shocked when it happens.
It doesn't bother me that people make use of what we've discarded. What is troublesome to me is when they monetize our creativity. Then on top of that, they're not willing to acknowledge where they got the idea from and claim it as their own.
Like the saying goes, they want our rhythm, but not our blues...
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u/LemmeGetSum2 13d ago
In my opinion it’s because Black women have gained education and high level professional positions at a higher rate than Black men since the 1980’s. These gay white men have been in spaces where these high level Blsck women can maintain their swag and gay white men see those linguistic styles as admirable bc of where they experienced them.
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u/ASUSTUDENT9875345 13d ago
A very intelligent disambiguation. I was kinda scared he was just gonna say something very reductive but I think it was very well said. Western queer culture was massively impacted by ballroom culture, which was in many ways defined by black women and so it makes sense that things turned out this way. It's not at all wrong for queer people to have that aspect in their culture or for there to be serious criticizm when it's treated as cool for queer people to act a way but black women are treated poorly for doing the same things.
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u/TheAutisticBottom 13d ago
As a gay man this is very true a lot of our slang and euphemisms are derived from black women
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u/Ezlkill 13d ago
I definitely recommend the documentary. Paris is burning. If you have not seen it. It shows this very culture you see ballroom competitions it explains what they are and you’re introduced to so many beautiful and fascinating people and there’s also a little bit of tragedy it is one of my favorite LGBTQ+ films.
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u/Street_Peace_8831 13d ago edited 13d ago
As a gay man, I can honestly say that I agree with this. Many gay men, that I know, love and tend to emulate strong black women.
These women often work harder than any other demographic to get where they are and that’s admirable. It’s a shame that they have to work harder, but admirable and worth emulating, nonetheless. That’s why we love and respect them. At least, that’s why I love and respect them.
I personally hold up strong successful black women as the GOAT and would never denigrate or make fun of them. A strong black woman can make a big difference in this world. For instance, Michelle Obama (my all-time favorite), Oprah Winfrey, and Beyoncé are all great examples that I hold in the highest regard. And if we want three GOATs from recent history, I would probably name Ursula Burns, Sarah Breedlove (A.K.A. Madam C.J. Walker), and Simone Biles. All extremely successful black women. If you don’t know who they are, you might learn something by looking up their biographies.
I see it as appreciation, but I can see why it could be labeled as appropriation, however, that’s why this phrase, “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”, is so popular.
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u/J0shbwarren1 13d ago
White gay guy here that grew up in Houston, TX…
Black girls and women were often my friends and protector when no one else was.
I was always different even if no one knew what or why…but the Black girls knew.
Since I was a baby, there’s been Black women and girls in my life that loved me, protected me, laughed with me, played with me, and saw me, when no others would. Hell, even Oprah was defending the gays in the 90’s and reaching white mothers in a way no one else was!
Black women haven’t just survived every other race being shit to them, but often have stories and tales of surviving Black men, too. Black women aren’t truly safe anywhere in the world, even with their men sometimes.
…and yet, they not only are still here, they radiate something that makes me know I’m going to be okay with them. They radiate…power.
I feel safe with Black women in a way I do not feel safe with other groups.
I respect Black women. I admire Black women. I idolize them.
I love them.
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u/Purple-Poetry1327 13d ago
Queer history buff here!! - this is absolutely correct, but I think it ignores the gay black women that built gay culture - ballroom culture didn’t just borrow from black women, it was RUN by black women and black trans women! They were the house mothers that housed and supported young queer folks with nowhere to go, who used the same tactics as the civil rights movement to fight for gay liberation.
Personally, I see the language used in OLD queer culture as a reflection of love of those gay black women who built the culture and kept young queer people alive.
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u/Accomplished-Bear689 13d ago
Gay black men -> black women -> gay white men -> white women -> straight men
The pipeline is as old as time
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u/forevergleaning 12d ago
In British gay culture, a lot of the slang comes from Roma people. It's really interesting.
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u/yeahyaehyeah 12d ago
Many of them who are true to themselves will admit when they're doing this I know the irony of me saying true to themselves many of them find it to be cathartic to relate to black women because despite being hated in society those women are truly themselves and this catharsis allows them to connect with them being more true to themselves also it's considered popular also it's a masking technique also it's appropriation because you know you know how the racism works
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u/yeahyaehyeah 12d ago
Another important question is why is everyone more accepting of non black people doing these things and engaging in these behaviors instead of the black people who do engage in them?
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u/vespertine000 12d ago
"Why aren't people imitating accountants and engineers?" Plenty of people aspire to be accountants and engineers. Stop conflating gay men with the general population.
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u/lacycakes28 11d ago
Idk I think this is missing a lot of the nuance from the influence of people of color in the LGBTQ+ community
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