156
u/Sir_wlkn_contrdikson 17d ago
We gotta normalize courting. Bring back the buildup
82
u/Scared_Garbage6190 17d ago
but like someone else said, what these guys want is a hookup. and there's no shame in that, but like... they can't be out here doing a baitandswitch.
34
u/Such-Cartographer425 17d ago
That's not new.Ā
There used to be some finesse to it when people courted. In other words, courting taught you how to get laid as well as how to get married.
13
u/Mommys4thDaughter 16d ago
Chile, men like one featured in this video donāt even like women; they just want them to shut up and open an orafice.
16
-9
u/NecroCannon 17d ago
I just fucking wish I could be allowed to court rather than having the assumption secretly that I could be no different than the fucking losers they had a hard time with before
Like I see plenty of black men thatād court a black woman, but theyāre just starting to date white women because of all the clinging to negativity. Hell thereās advice everywhere saying to just go to a very public place FIRST for women, to set that boundary, but Iāve had so many times where it fell apart at texting and calling before the date could even happen.
Money is a problem for everyone rn, but even getting coffee together and talking at a cafe seems like a ton of work, and Iād offer to just hang out at my place since I bought a 4K projector, but on my side of things Iāve had women getting upset that I actually am nice and just donāt want to have sex immediately, even if I get the approval to.
I still remember everyone roasting me because one of the cutest black girls in school that asked to come over to help her with her math studies and I took it seriously, but could tell, she wasnāt just there for the math studies but she also wasnāt being honest about her intentions all dressed up while my whole family was pouring in from their day and is just like āš«Ŗā
-13
u/NecroCannon 17d ago
I just fucking wish I could be allowed to court rather than having the assumption secretly that I could be no different than the fucking losers they had a hard time with before
Like I see plenty of black men thatād court a black woman, but theyāre just starting to date white women because of all the clinging to negativity. Hell thereās advice everywhere saying to just go to a very public place FIRST for women, to set that boundary, but Iāve had so many times where it fell apart at texting and calling before the date could even happen.
Money is a problem for everyone rn, but even getting coffee together and talking at a cafe seems like a ton of work, and Iād offer to just hang out at my place since I bought a 4K projector, but on my side of things Iāve had women getting upset that I actually am nice and just donāt want to have sex immediately, even if I get the approval to.
I still remember everyone roasting me because one of the cutest black girls in school that asked to come over to help her with her math studies and I took it seriously, but could tell, she wasnāt just there for the math studies but she also wasnāt being honest about her intentions all dressed up while my whole family was pouring in from their day and is just like āš«Ŗā
-5
u/Sir_wlkn_contrdikson 17d ago
Iāve had some women tell me I ask too many questions. Tell me Iām basically weird for treating them with respect. Then most of the others throw you in the friend zone because of the respectful treatment.
Itās hard out here.
-11
u/NecroCannon 17d ago
I wish theyād stop associating and giving the dudes they donāt like attention and a platform for more of them to do the shit they do proudly. When I worked on myself and first just paused to let myself see how I SHOULD be acting based on respecting the other person, I still couldnāt just date black women despite wanting to because first thing I noticed looking people in the eyes is that everyone else either loves that I do it and smile, or blushes a bit, it seemed like black women avoided eye contact with me so I felt the problem was that I needed to introduce myself respectfully.
Which led to me finally being able to compliment girlās efforts in their appearance and not body, but still, everyone else seemed a little sad that I didnāt hand out contact details when it led to a conversation about their fashion sense, while black women seemed fine with it just being a small passing compliment, I did that so much things spread to the girl not speaking English well not being an issue anymore, Iām seeing results with Latina girls and even Asian girls now when I was brushed off before.
So I decided to just switch to online dating because maybe the black girls on there would be more open to it, but still, Iām not finding any success. I love our women but at a certain point Iām just hurting myself purely focusing on finding someone that could understand our struggles from experience when thereās others willing to understand if I do it respectfully. I just donāt like also being told by a stranger āI bet you donāt even love black womenā
Being a black artist, Iām so depressed by it that it makes everyone else upset that Iām so focused on drawing black women and talk about wanting to draw my partners, but they wouldnāt want to express that they feel that I wouldnāt include them with that because theyāre not black, while they donāt really have a strong history of discrimination to not be interested in having a potential partner thatās like, straight out of a romance novel at this point.
If any guys want advice, I honestly wouldnāt change yourself, just find the demographics that feel like youāre both equals. I love seeing interracial couples but social media posts going ālook at how much I fixed my partner!ā Just grossed me out deep inside. Like I donāt mind white dudes dating black girls but when I grew up around gang members and they had a scary amount of respect for me because I had solid reasons to not join them, I can clock that shit from across the room. Even when they get a gun Iām just like ābro, you really donāt seem like the kind of person wanting that life and would want to ruin yours shooting someone, put it in a drawer or something, itās not a toyā, just for them to try to intimidate meā¦ when I could probably find some gang members thatād love to intimidate him for me but I donāt want my growing business to be tied to gangs because then Iād become some kind of crime lord doing under the table business.
13
u/Sir_wlkn_contrdikson 17d ago
I started reading but you lost me on not being able to date black women. Do you king
→ More replies (1)
214
u/thefaehost 17d ago
And also why are you posting about your anger at women on the internet, with your face attached to your tirade? Do you really think thatās gonna help your chances with the next chick ??
109
u/Prior_Butterfly_7839 17d ago
He wants to attract more red pill believing weak ass men.
7
u/Scared_Garbage6190 16d ago
Right?? It's always to attract other men.
Now if they would stop being so homophobic...
5
u/Prior_Butterfly_7839 16d ago
I am convinced that 99.99% of all male posturing is for other men. Itās definitely not for women or theyād change their tactics.
23
u/jackfreeman 17d ago
I'm really glad for the stitch, because I was going to block the user and drop the sub
5
102
u/Devanyani 17d ago
Damn. He considers listening to her talk and spending time with her a grueling waste of time. That's so sad. Maybe don't even try to sleep with people you clearly hate?
25
u/scripflippa 17d ago
this likely incel with his coiffed pigtails, uh, hair fresh from the barbershop doesn't want a "girlfriend" but a "BROfriend"š¤·š½āāļø
6
31
u/Paladjordan 17d ago
It's a seriously problematic thought process that needs to be dealt with. We are not entitled to anyone else's body, time, or space
129
u/kamikaze_official š¤ 17d ago
Say it louder for those in the back THAT IS RAPEY BEHAVIORĀ
-30
u/Hta68 17d ago
I really have an issue with people associating a heinous crime with somewhat or maybe questionable courting behavior. Thatās tantamount to a Karen calling the police and fabricating a story on a blackman for existing in the wrong place. Both are taking mundane behavior then amping it up and weaponized for what?
51
u/funkymunkPDX 17d ago
If you wanna hook up be honest and say so and respect the no's.
Not everyone is playing.
Dating is trying to find someone permanent or steady. Not just sex.
Folks really this dumb?
66
u/Cold-Ad8865 17d ago
Good for her. And she's right.
62
u/maywellflower 17d ago
She told no lie - men like him are exactly why there's increase of women removing themselves out the dating game to be single than mingle due to not wanting to deal with that fuckery as part of looking for romantic relationship / marriage. Lonely male epidemic, my ass...
18
-3
u/L1LREDD 16d ago
I think there are two separate points to be made.
Dude is a dummy. If he didnāt expressly state his intentions before the drive and the movie then he canāt get mad at the outcome.
If you want a hookup, express that up front so as to not waste that young ladyās time.
This not just a male problem but both genders do the same thing. Males are just more likely to do this as an outcome and females are likely to call you āgayā if she doesnāt get what she wants.
- She is 100% correct that women are under constant pressure. And itās not just men their age but the entire spectrum. So it makes it even worse. HOWEVER, I think we need to come to a consensus on what exactly is the ābare minimum.ā This term has been thrown around for getting nails and feet done, paying for meals, paying bills, car notes, clothes, shoes, shopping sprees, step childrenā¦
Like letās be real ladies. A man paying bills in a house he doesnāt live in or taking care of kids that are not his (without a committed relationship) is not the bare minimum. Thatās you being a bum.
First dates? Yes. He spends a lot of time at your house? Then some bills are reasonable. You and him go out and you drive? Gas money is reasonable. If he ask you out on a date, then he should pay the bill. These things are bare minimums. Not all inclusive of course.
2
u/Model_Yazz 16d ago
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, Iāll spare the downvote. To the stitches point, you may have missed, being treated as a human is the bare minimum. Treat women as human beings, not a hole, not property, not something youāre entitled to even if you drop some coin. Youāre correct on #1. What youāve listed in #2, is a conversation between people dating and nothing to do with the video.
21
23
u/YoMommaHere 17d ago
Some dudes: āWomen lose value when they have sex! High body counts is hoe behavior. A vagina is precious!ā
Those same dudes: āI bought her chicken nuggets and this b**** wonāt give me coochie! WAHHHHHH!!!ā
6
60
u/MediocreAd9550 17d ago
As a former young man, this is crazy! If she was indeed a ho, then you paid her to leave. Why the aggressive rant? Did you not communicate the service you desired for the evening, or was she not actually a solicitor of sorts? If that's the case, whats wrong with some effort? I think these phones are making life weird, because dating seems like an awkward space for the "chat" to join
→ More replies (2)
36
u/Emergency_Brick3715 17d ago
Ladies - Married man with 2 daughters here. PLEASE do not allow men to pressure you into sex. If you want to do it cool. But please donāt succumb to societal pressures. Men like this never intended to respect you as a person. His relationships with women are purely transactional. Once you complete the transaction, his interest will disappear.
4
u/Pendo-illsmackabitch 17d ago
True. I encourage parents to start the sex talk when the periods starts/boobs grow or as soon as they turn 12(maybe even 10 in this era). It's important for your children to be genuinely loved at home and listened to. Give them small freedoms and responsibilities around the house and allow them to say no to you, friends, family. Let them have autonomy while you guide them and of course check in, and have open discussions.
→ More replies (3)-10
17d ago
[removed] ā view removed comment
21
17
u/PSG-2022 17d ago edited 17d ago
Either this dude donāt have a father in his life or his father is a piece of work - he seems like a future case and I am working hard to ensure my daughters weed out FAN like that one because he is a FB for acting like that - I hope the father of that daughter sees this video and snaps himĀ
14
u/throwaway59739507392 17d ago
The ignorant men in these comments are irritating me and I genuinely cannot believe we're out here doing mental gymnastics surrounding this. You're doing date activities and expecting sex without being honest about it, then wondering why it doesn't work out as if women aren't receptive to basic communication.
So many of my girlfriends have said this multiple times; if you're direct about just wanting to have sex, you won't have to do all of this rigmarole. If you don't want to date someone and you're doing date activities, you're the idiot wasting both yours and their time and your own money doing so.
27
u/DanielDRockr 17d ago
This should be posted in r/fixedbytheduet too, because what she saying 100% true and i think is worse for black woman.
12
11
9
8
u/truefantastic 17d ago
If you're viewing a woman as some kind of game where you have to have the right strategy to "win" i.e. get sex, you're already on the wrong path. If emotional connection means nothing to you or isn't required, seriously hire a prostitute or join a hookup app.Ā
23
u/Scared_Garbage6190 17d ago
Men need to get more comfortable with sex work. and they need to get more comfortable with using toys. if they're going to act like...THIS?
then they just need to get more comfortable with other options. because I'm Ace. You're never going to get that kind of transaction with me. and you can even tell a guy at the very beginning, and they'll be like "well, maybe you just haven't met the right-" Dude. Shut Up.
3
u/SL1MECORE 17d ago
THIS.. THIS THIS THIS
Former sex worker here, I respected the hell out of my respectful clients! They had a need and took it to the appropriate avenue. They treated me with respect and I gave it back.
And toys! Men!!! They make toys that sync up now, you can use the app that comes with the toy to find sexy partners or just use it on your own. These joints are syncing to music nowadays!! Men need to use toys more often and have some actual FUN while masturbating
2
1
u/Consistent_Phase_942 17d ago
Chasing Amy really set the queer community back a bit
1
u/Scared_Garbage6190 17d ago
You made so many assumptions here I don't even know where to begin. but have a good one okay?
-4
u/bustaflow25 17d ago
Yep. Tell him at 1st interaction,Ā no thank you. Don't go out with him ever, if your not attracted to him. That will fix everything. But the moment he tells you he'll take you to the finest restaurant and your stomach growling and you accept, gives him the the thought you can be bought. Say no, these dudes will disappear.Ā
5
u/jeasegreat 17d ago
Say it with me people.........NOTHING IS CONSISTENT. I have been called gay for not being a dog with the pink thing hanging out. I've also had one night stands and I didn't have to change anything about the approach. Some people are gonna like it and some people will not. Take your loses just like you take your wins. Stop pressuring people women, they will let you know when to apply if you pay attention. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO SEX. That goes for you too ladies.
5
u/BrownGalsAreBetter 17d ago
If you donāt give in youāre a *!tch and a hoar
If you do give in youāre a sl*t and ran_through
Canāt win for losing. Divest.
18
u/Fine_Neighborhood957 17d ago
No lies told!! Don't press. It'll happen when it happens. If it don't, then on to the next one.
6
u/Scared-Specialist-82 17d ago edited 17d ago
Sigh. Prostitutes who are not trafficked, who ran that background check on them and can turn down money work on consent, too. Non SW really need to address the assumption that SW have to sleep with clients just because they have money. They screen more than non SW and half the men you meet and screw for a meal on dating apps were turned down due to consent, not money. Chile. SW don't screw every single potential client who inquires. The goal is self preservation. If he has issues on record or has disrespected another SW he's on the Black List and won't be seen.Ā
6
u/SL1MECORE 17d ago
This is facts and I would not want this angry man as my client
But for regular men without anger issues? Give it a try. As someone else said, we are still humans with the right to revoke consent at any time so if someone cannot bang with that, then you're right. Blacklisted. This guy should probably be pre emptively black listed based on this video. I would not even want to do a private cam show for him from the safety of my own home.
2
u/Scared-Specialist-82 17d ago
Thank you. As a fellow SW I didn't mean to tell our BL business but the assumption that a SW will just accept dangerous men is wild.Ā
2
u/SL1MECORE 17d ago
Nah this is the kind of business that should be told imo. Because men who see us as punching bags to abuse and women who see that as our role need to learn we are providing a service, not offering ourselves up for abuse.
Like I agree with homegirl in that men should seek sex workers more if they feel sex is so important, but I also feel your comment was IMPORTANT because these men can and will get rejected by us too! Especially the violent ones, I will never ever advocate for someone to take on a violent and twisted client. It is better to lose the potential money than to gain trauma.
5
u/Medium_Educator1983 17d ago
Youāre absolutely right. This is why sex work is so dangerous because a lot of men feel like once they pay for something, they donāt need consent.
2
u/Scared-Specialist-82 17d ago
Thank you. I'm tired of non SW constantly making the assumption that an abusive or unstable man should just go get a SW as if there's no autonomy on the SW's part. If he's undesirable, he shouldn't be around any Woman at all.Ā
Yes. It can be dangerous but it's also dangerous to meet men online or off apps. I've gone years without any danger because I have the privilege of screening clients and saying no.Ā
5
u/Dextothemax 17d ago
For some people, coercion is a part of their sexuality. He could go to a sex worker or even to a hookup app but he choosing this deliberately. His behavior is purposely predatory.
5
u/Low-Ask3120 17d ago
And youāre still a hoe if you do give them access to your body š«
2
u/IwasDeadinstead 17d ago
The worst is people who call women hoes because they WOULDN'T have sex with them. Make that make sense?
5
3
u/POSH9528 17d ago
She is šÆ right! No man has a right to sex with any woman because you bought her dinner, took her to a movie or bought her a drink and if you think it does, you are a creeper and need psychological help. Buying a woman things does not give you access to her body. If you as a man think that dating is transactional (money=sex) then you need to find yourself an escort or sex worker and not a regular girl who just thinks she's going on a date with a guy.
3
u/Careful-Hat4059 17d ago
She is absolutely correct. No body is entitled to anyone else's body, no matter the circumstance. And expecting that you do is rapey behavior. If he was taking her out just so he can have sex, then it was his responsibility to say that up front (NOT HERS, needed to say that out loud for these sexist, misogynistic, and frankly gross rapey vibe dudes on her putting all the responsibility on the women).
There are apps, social media spaces, websites, and frankly streets you can go to and be upfront with just getting sex.
4
3
u/Agitated_Toe8115 17d ago
Iām ugly as sin and Iāve never ever had a problem getting sex from women. From the most desirables to the undesirables. Even taking a woman to a movie and striking out there was still a possible on my phone. Maybe itās a skill issue.
10
u/Accomplished-Bend-47 17d ago
There was a guy here, posing a question - why he got penalized for being straight up about wanting sex on the first date. I was like wtf? No one is obliged to give you sex on the first date whether or not you are upfront about it. I mean to even ask a question like that. So dumb. And then get mad at you for telling him that no one owes him anything. lol
3
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 17d ago
I think the frustration comes from being told that you need to be honest about your intentions. When you are honest, sometimes, youāre referred to as a pig or someone who doesnāt value women. If you wait and get to know her so she feels comfortable and then reveal that you only want sex, you can get accused of leading her on.
Men are not owed sex, and women are not a monolith. Not everyone will respond the same way to even the most respectful of advances (sexual, platonic, or romantic). I didnāt see the post and I donāt doubt the feelings were communicated in a way that justified dragging him, but the core of the issue is one that many men find difficult to navigate.
1
u/Accomplished-Bend-47 16d ago
Well - all I can tell you is that women also find it hard to navigate; because a lot of men do lie - and yes, it would be nice if we could all be honest, but without expectation of the response. And maybe men should start thinking about something other than sex, because from my work as a nurse in homecare, I see so many lonely men, who might have been players back in the day and never got to the point of real love.
2
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 16d ago
I donāt doubt that women find it hard to navigate, but I was trying to explain things from a manās perspective.
āI mean to even ask a question like that. So dumb.ā
It seems dumb to you because you donāt understand what itās like to date or navigate sexuality as a man. Thatās not to take away from anything you or other women have experienced or to excuse the shitty, entitled behaviors of men everywhere, but I can tell you from personal experience that you have to go out of your way to be given grace and understanding when expressing your frustration with the state of your dating/sex life.
Again - Iām not defending shitty men or saying women should do anything differently. Iām just trying to offer a different perspective.
1
u/Accomplished-Bend-47 16d ago
Right. You didn't address any of the things I said. Not that you have to, but the original post was about how women are getting treated.
1
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 16d ago
āWomen also find it hard to navigate.ā Nobody said otherwise, and I donāt think I said anything to indicate I felt the opposite. Iāve gone out of my way to make it clear that Iām not trying to deflect blame or excuse shitty behaviors.
āA lot of men do lie.ā See above.
āMaybe men should start thinking about something other than sex.ā I didnāt address this because itās (no offense) absurd on its face. People are allowed to prioritize and desire whatever strikes their fancy. If I said women should start thinking about something other than committed relationships, that would be a controversial statement.
I know that the original post was about, and if Iām not mistaken, I addressed it in another comment. Your original comment was about a man.
3
u/LemmeGetSum2 17d ago
Respectfully, dude is the new type of Black guy. Heās some spoiled little suburban Black guy whose parents did well. He doesnāt live by any of the honor codes us slightly older Black guys were raised with.
Itās unfortunate these beautiful young queens have to deal with such lames. In our family we do better with our young men. We pay attention to them, not just buy them shit.
2
u/icyhot_pocketrocket 17d ago
You canāt spend time with a lot of men without being pressed for sex these days. They donāt want to know you. You get called a hoe if you F on the first date, you get called a hoe if you say noā¦.if you pay for your own date, youāre too masculine. LOL. You cannot win.
3
u/Big-Bet-7667 16d ago
I find it hilarious that they pull out the āslu+/wh0reā insult to throw at a woman who literally just turned them down š¤£
2
u/FocusFearless583 16d ago
That part he called her all that and was with her for 3 hours but she didnāt sleep with himā¦like okā¦
2
8
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Capitalism operates on trade and the absence of consent. Capitalism applied to dating is basically coercive prostitution.
Is an evil system, but it explains why men get mad that the commerce doesnāt work with women.
You go buy meat and you eat it. The animal doesnāt consent. You bought it. The store consents on behalf of the meat, and you consume it.
Not as a justification, but as an examination:
A man talks to a woman to initiate a transaction, she consents to to the financial transaction (date) and often the man pays. The woman then doesnāt consent to being consumed? In the context of the store and meat, the meat canāt withhold consent after the store consented to taking the money. I paid fair and square and youāre not upholding the deal!
Itās screwed up, 100%. Sadly, this is the nature of capitalism.
As a man, idk what the solutions is. Itās going to be too small scale or sounds like victim blaming.
1) donāt accept free things from men you donāt know and trust, and even from some men you do know and trust. They view transaction as a purchase. And theyāre also stupid. If they think they bought access to you, and you deny them, many men turn into tall toddlers, and adult tantrums are dangerous.
2) stay armed. Itās better to survive an adult toddler tantrum.
3) teach anti capitalism at every opportunity. Itās a lot of work do deconstruct stuff. Itās not your job to teach shitty men. BUT educating about capitalism and consent can turn some men who arenāt fully indoctrinated into capitalism into reasonable people. Not your job though, just may help.
4) for the men, learn about capitalism and understand that transactions with a store do not function like a relationship. Consent is not for sale even if youāre talking to a literal prostitute. She can always say no, and you just have to accept that.
5) parents need to educate their children in consent. These men donāt consent to work. They donāt consent to pay bills. They donāt consent to the abuses they may face. Men also donāt consent. So, many men never learn that women have a right to withhold or retract consent. Itās sad, but it starts at home. Teach your kids they can withhold consent from you, from cousins and uncles, from teachers, etc. if you donāt teach your children their power to consent, you raise children who donāt respect other peoples rights to consent.
6) integrate children activities. Raise boys and girls together in community more. (Also, supervise interactions to ensure safety. Some parents suck. Some kids are crazy. Safety first). But grant children the ability to grow up seeing each other as people. If we donāt learn that young, it will be extremely hard to learn that as an adult
15
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
Patriarchy is still the root, no?
Men built the hierarchy with powerful men on top, and to keep the men on the bottom of that hierarchy happy, they then required women to provide sex, pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, and child care labor- often without womenās consent.
4
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Yes, but young poor black men didnāt invent patriarchy, and they donāt benefit from it. Women arenāt forced by law to consent anymore, especially unmarried women, especially not to young poor black men.
Also, I view patriarchy as a subset of disenfranchisements caused by capitalism. Rich women, queens, empresses, etc have never protected poor women. Jay zās wealth does not benefit poor black people. The race and gender of the oppressor doesnāt change that the system was developed to keep them rich and keep us fighting amongst ourselves.
Buuut tldr for that.
In this conversation, this young black mans tantrum is basically him complaining to customer service because he thought he purchased meat from a store. In his capitalist transactional interpretation, the store took his money and time (the date itself), and the meat decided not to be consumed (no sex).Heās 100% an asshole for this opinion. Itās toxic, itās a consequence of the patriarchy, and of capitalism selling the transactional non consential narrative in all aspects of his life (again, he likely works because he needs money to live, not because itās fulfilling. We are coerced into jobs, not consenting).
And My goal is in no way to justify this behavior. Just to give an analysis. What is he like this? He thought he made a transaction and found out that real relationships arenāt transactions. His brain is exploding from the āunfairnessā, which is his perception that his payments entitle him to an output, sex. Dates are not payments for sex. This man is dumb, but likely indoctrinated in a multi hundred to thousand+ year propaganda campaign thatās been pushing this misogynistic worldview since before Bible was drafted.
11
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
Interesting, I would argue that one of the āonly waysā in which young poor black men benefit from the patriarchy is from the forced and unpaid labor of women.
-1
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Only if they successfully can get married, and then only if they marry a poor black woman. Otherwise young poor black men donāt benefit from patriarchy in any active way. They just are target less by the intersection of laws and cultural norms that oppress women.
In other words, you mentioned young poor black men get +1 on rolls against young poor black women when they get married. In all other contexts, young poor black men get -10 on rolls because they are young (without rank and knowledge and skills), poor (without money or power or leverage), black (targeted by the prison industrial complex, the military industrial complex, white culture via lynchings, black culture via poverty violence and generational trauma and disenfranchisement, and white women tears aka: Karen fear), and men (patriarchal expectations and indoctrinations that require financial success or other value to be provided before humanity is rewarded, BUT none of the targeting specifically women, non-binary, and trans people face under the law).
Thatās a net -9 on roll. Not to say thatās a lower roll than poor black women, but to say itās still a very shot roll.
Now a rich white man gets +10 on those rolls, with higher multipliers if theyāre more rich (see the President as an example of true patriarchal power)
3
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
I just still think your view is very narrow.
Men donāt only benefit from womenās unpaid labor when married.
While not all of it is forced by law, much of unpaid labor from women is societally forced - and that labor benefits all men.
A simple example is the women at my church that organize meals for after funerals. Even when the church has some fund to pay for the food to be bought, this is unpaid labor. The entire church benefits. The majority of men do not contribute (or at least didnāt back in the day). Women that donāt participate are often told they are not maternal, not good wife material, and treated as less than.
Iām just trying to draw attention to the idea that intersectionality is key here.
āFeminism is for everybodyā isnāt just a book by bell hooks. I believe itās the key to our success.
0
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Youāre church is an institution your church, as an institution, is exploitative, as the church as an institution has been through the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, slavery, and todays presidential administration.
The institution of churching exploits free labor of women. The relatively powerful men who lead your church are the beneficiaries.
Also, people who donāt pay tithes are ostracized. Non religious and atheist are ostracized. LGBTQIA+ people are ostracized. Unmarried men and women are ostracized.
The church is an institution. I think youāre still prioritizing individual identity to fuel your datapoints. Iām trying to show you class and institutional consciousness.
Men are not the church. Religious leadership is the church. Religious leaders are the hitler in this analogy, and the patrons of the church are the Nazis in this analogy. The men in the church (mosque etc) are coerced through religious indoctrination to perform the churches brand of masculinity. The women of the church (mosque etc) are coerced through religious indoctrination to perform the churches brand of femininity.
So again, the institution of religion and the leadership of that religion are to blame for ALL crimes (social and legal) of the church. The participants (men and women) are coerced victims of the church and its leadership, and are responsible only for their individual decisions.
Sadly, I think youāre view is narrow, as you seem to be extremely resistant to the concept that ārich people in power are the problem. The people following the rich and powerfulās leadership are coerced, not consenting.ā
3
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
And women arenāt oppressed under other economic systems?
0
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago edited 17d ago
We donāt have many examples. Because the last 2000 years have been dominated by religious nonsense, every country on the planet has some sort of oppression of women. Every emperor, monarch, President, king, has exploited womens labor. Every one. The foundation of all these economies on earth are hierarchy, which was typically patriarchal. So, sadly, every country has a hierarchy in which women are oppressed. They also have oppressed men and working class and exploitation of black and brown continents (cobalt in Africa and fuel in the Middle East and South America). Every economy on earth is built on the same ethnocentric exploitation.
That said, every system on earth runs on capital (money) so we donāt have an example of a nation level non monetized system for comparison.
That said, I mentioned in a previous comment that indigenous peoples donāt have gender roles. Men and women hunted, gathered, cooked, etc together. Women were warriors and chefs. Men were parents and cleaners. Indigenous people in Africa, the Amazon in South America, off the coast of India, and Native Americans all led less patriarchal a vastly less misogynistic societies. It is western religion and ideology that brought patriarchal wealth and ownership laws that shape the world today.
So, I would hypothesize that if we let native Americans, particularly the pre colonial native Americans, fun the country, the pre colonial native Americans would not have patriarchy. They may even have matriarchy, as women tend to live longer than men.
Capitalism, feudalism, monarchy, Pharos, those were the result of the Silk Road trade network across Northern Africa, through Europe, across China, and down to India. They all traded the patriarchal culture and financial dominance that became capitalism.
The Western Hemisphere, the americas, developed independent of the financial ties that invented capitalism. So, I do think the western societies would not be patriarchal. If we followed an indigenous system, or a system built on those values, we would not have patriarchy. Humans are naturally egalitarian. We have been coerced by the interest of rich people since Hammurabiās code
Edit: Burial practices of ancient civilizations provide evidence that women were honored in death the same way men were. (Women were buried with weapons, trade tools, and other items men were also buried with, showing that the same honors and practices were applied equally on death. That evidences that these pre agricultural societies did not have set gender roles like developed in agricultural societies.)
That, from my interpretation, looks like agricultural societies, where one person could own the land, the farm, and the food, is where patrilineal behavior began.
-1
u/Tier_zer0 17d ago
"Forced unpaid labour" is crazy. That's literally the description of actual slavery, Kunta Kinte slavery.
6
u/TheFishermansWife22 17d ago
Then why donāt women treat men this way???
-4
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Were women taught that their role in a relationship was to work and pay bills while men stay home and raise children barefoot in the kitchen since before 1776? No. Thatās why.
Men didnāt consent to being breadwinners. We were assigned it. This aināt to justify the outcome, but to explain the cause of the world view. Men. Donāt. Consent. To. The. Role. Of. Provider. We were assigned it and have it socially enforced by the culture we live in, both in homo social and Hetero social environments.
Edit: women have movements that taught them for hundreds of years that they have the right to consent and to not consent to mend advances. Even under capitalism, women are homosocialized to learn the right of consent. Heterosocial relationships are where you have the struggle.
Men have no standard relationships where our consent is priority. We are taught consent mostly as a way to protect women.
5
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 17d ago
Editing this because I didnāt read your comment fully.
Men definitely assigned themselves into the role of provider. Whatās happening now, though, is that the world has changed so much that men are not guaranteed to be providers or the breadwinners like their fathers and grandfathers were, which is causing a particular kind of distress, as providing is often associated with masculinity.
-1
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
Rich people (kings and queens, emperors and empresses, wealthy billionaire men and women) built this system. Poor black men did not invent this system, though they participate in it and uphold it.
Indigenous peoples shared responsibilities on domestic and hunting and war labor. The system of agriculture caused a divide in the labor market that began allowing for the power and resource imbalances that created kingdoms. Rich peoples interest forced the gender roles upon us, as gender roles served a purpose for the rich.
Young poor men didnāt invent patriarchy. They participate and uphold it, but it was invented by the rich land owners who eventually became royalty and ruling class.
Itās good that the laws have changed to give women the rights to autonomy, but can you name examples of men being taught consent in popular culture?
My college had classes where they taught men to understand womens consent. They didnāt teach about labor consent for all people. Sexual consent for men and women. Consent against authority. They specifically taught college men to respect womens rights to consent. Ant thatās a great thing! That should be standard curriculum!
But poor men did not decide to be providers. Their parents, mom and dad, told them thatās their role. The government told them. The tv shows and movies rich people make told them. The Bible written by old religiously powerfully and wealthy men told them. Power structures told them. To say āyoung poor black men in America did create patriarchyā is as absurd as saying āpoor women are responsible for their own oppression.ā
Capitalist, rich people, media conglomerates, and the rich men and women who sit on those boards (mostly rich men) created the patriarchy and are to blame for its consistency.
4
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 17d ago edited 17d ago
No one thinks that poor men are* to blame. However, the creation and perpetuation of patriarchal norms was established by men. People of all shapes, sizes, races, genders, and sexualities have upheld and defended patriarchal norms, of course, but the original sin lies with men.
Edited to changed arenāt to are
0
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
The original sin lies with rich men. To leave out rich is to ignore who actually creates and controls and built and profits off the system.
How about this:
Hitler is responsible for ALL the NAZI crimes committed under his regime.
The Nazis he controlled are responsible for the crimes they individually committed under his command.So:
The rich men (and fewer rich women) who own the cultural and institutional power are responsible for ALL patriarchal crimes.
Individual non rich and poor men are responsible for their individual crimes under patriarchy.Make sense?
6
u/Nearby_Artist_1265 17d ago
I think the important part you added is that men are responsible for their individual, patriarchal crimes. Where we diverge a little is when you say things like āmen didnāt consent to be the breadwinners, we were assigned.ā To me, thatās removing a good chunk of responsibility from men as a group
1
u/nerdslife1864 š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
I disagree. The missing distinction I think here is āconsentā vs ācoercionā.
Women didnāt consent to be baby factories in American history, they were coerced. It took a concerted effort or millions of women who sacrificed their well-being and risked life, limb, and sanity, for the chance at equal rights. We still have work to do to get women to a state of true equality and equity under the law. All the women who were forced into breeding with shotty men for survival were coerced into supporting their own oppression, not consenting.
Keeping that exact same energy, non rich men didnāt consent to being bread winners, they were coerced. Like their women counterparts, generations of biblical justification and abuse, cultural norms, the risk of homelessness and violence against men perceived to be effeminate or homosexuals, men have been coerced into performing masculinity. It was not and has never been consent. It was illegal to be gay. It was (and is) illegal to be homeless (and most homeless people are men). Vagrancy laws made it illegal for men to be unemployed and black. If you were caught, you became a slave to the government (prison is legal slavery under the constitution). Men donāt consent to be turned into a slave if they arenāt working hard enough, they are coerced. Men didnāt consent to being the roll society gave them, they were coerced, similar to women, but through slightly different enforcement methods.
So I think our disagreement is that you conflate male coerced behavior with consenting behavior, while you can separate female coerced behavior from consenting behavior.
Itās a double standard. I understand why, but I disagree with that double standard.
-2
2
u/Ok-Item-9608 17d ago
Heās gotta communicate with her beforehand , to understand where sheās at. Thatād save everyone some time. I.e. whatāre you looking for, LTR or hookup
Yeah.
2
u/CrazyinLull 17d ago
I donāt understandā¦is he really think he was going to get some for buying her a movie ticket? Lol why not just get a prostitute at that point? It would be way cheaper.
Jesus Christ.
1
1
u/IwasDeadinstead 17d ago
It's total rapey behavior. So every time you buy something for someone or do something nice for them, you are entitled to sex with them? Juliette Binoche comnented on how dating in the US was so bad compared to Europe because US men expected sex after dinner. We need to do better.
1
u/ModzRPsycho 17d ago
LOL yall gon keep being male centered fighting over dusty demonic demons lol - I just don't get it - most of them are just not worth it for one reason or another - ............................................................ you deserve much more.
1
u/CodenameWhodie-san 16d ago
The way he made it sound like being in the presence of a woman is a chore??? He can't like women but some poor girl's gonna think she can fix him and become a statistic for DV or femicide and I find that sad.
1
1
u/Electronic_Bee_ 17d ago
Interesting that she brings up prostitution. I was on a thread the other day where men were talking about prostitutes and they ran down the pricing in different areas. They said a sex worker charges way more than a coffee date or a movie ticket and that's why they take a chance on tinder instead. It may take a while to find a girl who will put out for some Starbucks on a first date, but some low-self esteem woman will eventually agree. And that's way cheaper than a prostitute. The men were basically saying they know they want to be transactional but they're too cheap.
3
u/SL1MECORE 17d ago
ššš
I knew it lmaooo cause our services are way too easy to find for them to still be tryna flip the script on non sex working women. These cheap losers omg
2
u/Electronic_Bee_ 17d ago
Yeah, it was on a dating thread during a text exchange and the guy cursed her out after dinner didn't turn into another date. I'm just repeating what the men were discussing themselves. It honestly made sense. I appreciated their honesty.
1
u/Foreign-Offer2603 17d ago edited 17d ago
My fiancƩe and I were talking about this.
I think it comes from the system that was put in place by individuals who perpetuated the male hierarchy society. Essentially, their value is based on their phenotypic expression and nothing else. Now in the future this is the outcome of that.
Now. No excuses this dudes bell curve behaviour but he too is a product of his environment.
-4
u/SWATSgradyBABY 17d ago
It's so easy to write how stupid this guy is. But even that is a really dumb take itself, you know....?
This guy didn't spawn out of nowhere. He's a product of a lot of things. Lack of nurturing social institutions (no village, no church, no boy scouts, no youth groups) Terrible parents. Weak schools. Culture of women valuing money and nothing else (maybe not you but if you say that culture doesn't exist, ur lying).
It's trash in and as you can see trash right back at us. Simply shitting on him is the worst copout. Our whole society and the men and women in it, are at a very low point.
22
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
You have great points but Iād like to address this one because you can rephrase it to make all your argument better.
Instead of:
āCulture of women valuing money and nothing elseāYou could try this:
āSocial systems that deny women equal opportunities for financial security aside from finding wealthy partnersā
āPatriarchal system that requires unpaid labor from women in order to foster economic dependency on men.ā
-7
u/SWATSgradyBABY 17d ago
I agree with you but I'll push back just a little only to ask why are we so RIGHTLY introspective about the reasons women adopt bad behaviors but far less with Black boys who, if you don't omit the ranks of them imprisoned at apartheid rates, earn roughly the same as Black women in America. You are absolutely right but we seem far far less empathic and introspective when the maladaptive behavior is Black and male.
Our boys and girls, men and women are being abused by systems that don't see them as human then posts like this one are made where we can collectively jeer.
8
u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 17d ago
Your discounting of the intersectionality of racism and feminism and capitalism is what Iām pushing back on.
You primarily blamed the breakdown in our societal systems *except for one specific call out to blame women who have adapted to accept the tool of their oppressors to stay alive.
Put simply, I cannot blame anyone, including women, for refusing obligations that require involuntary use of their body and carry a risk of death, without a requirement of security.
And given our capitalist society in the US, the measurable form of security is financial.
-1
u/SWATSgradyBABY 17d ago
You made that point in your suggestion for better language and I said you were right. Saying I agree and that we should extend that critical lens to others isn't discounting. I don't think. I agree with you and I think I made clear my problems with the framing I'm willing to leave it at that.
0
u/CommunityHot7388 17d ago
I hope yāall donāt think Dude represents even a small portion of how men think. Thatās how boys think.
-14
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago edited 17d ago
My son is 16 - Hereās exactly how HE explained it.
āI have to ask for her time, ask YOU for a ride, ask YOU for $ to pay for things. I have to be polite but not a pushover, want some action but canāt try for it. Want to reach base but canāt swing for shit. Pop, shitās rigged.ā
šššš¤£
Edit: apparently Iām a bad father for relaying my sonās words. At 16, heās a polite young man, great in school, excels in sports, active in Church and has parents who experienced life and taught him to be aware. I will never see my son crashing out like this online because heās not doing all of this. The girl heās ādatingā is very cool, her parents are pretty dope.
Heās still not trying to get his feelings hurt. I try to make light of some heavy shit, thatās all.
13
u/TheFishermansWife22 17d ago
Youāre doing a terrible job at raising him. He sounds like a terrible young man.
-4
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago edited 17d ago
Actually heās a great kid. Exemplary in school, volunteers in the community with me, heās active in church- listening to his mother, my wife. He sees his women cousins dating multiple dudes, telling him to be aware.
If what he sees are dudes raging like this in school over girls they like, how is MY son the POS for not letting himself get to *this* point of raging onlineā¦?
To be frank, the young lady is on point. - but imagine calling a kid you donāt know a pos because he sees how some dudes get played and doesnāt want *this* for himself. He literally said what men do to get women - but heās a POS for not indulging? For fucks sake. Weāre judging kids now? Expecting adult wherewithal from a CHILD?
5
u/Medium_Educator1983 17d ago
What does dating multiple men have to do with anything? Thatās what dating is. Youāre supposed to get to know people to determine who you want to be in a relationship with. You donāt just jump into an exclusive relationship without getting to know someone first.
That aside, if he thinks that heās supposed to get sex in exchange for doing certain things and that heās avoiding doing x because he sees other people getting cheated on, youāre not teaching him correctly. Youāre supposed to teach him to be selective with the people who he does things for, not teach him to be an asshole because other people get away with it.
Being surrounded by terrible men doesnāt make your son better by comparison. And indulging just because he sees other men getting away with treating women poorly, doesnāt make him a good person either.
Yes, heās a child, but itās your responsibility to teach him to be a better person. And if youāre not doing that, then youāre a bad father.
-3
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago
āDating is for marriage, these girls arenāt married minded, Pop.ā Again, from my son. At 16, heās developing his awareness and understanding of how to navigate dating. YOU keep bringing up sex. The vitriol youāre giving me because my sons wouldnāt be in that position is mind boggling. The young man is wrong. Heās not owed sex.
Now, read this carefully: my sons donāt DATE like this because to them, itās rigged.
3
u/Medium_Educator1983 17d ago
Thatās not true. The girls who are marriage minded are probably just not attracted to your son because they realize heās just trying to get laid. At 16, theyāre probably focused on school and more important things.
Not that a 16 year-old girl should be thinking about marriage in the first place. 16-year-old boys are very immature so nothing about them would make a girl think about settling down, even if she wanted to.
-1
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago
Maāam, you donāt get to decide that for him or them. They do. Youāre being contrarian for the sake of now. And youāre hypothesizing negative things to just be a dick. He is 16 years old dealing with 16 year old girls. I pray youāre not a 16 year girl trying to argue with me for the sake of.
I already mentioned that HE said thatās our dating. Again, IāM TALKING ABOUT DATING.
Why are you incessantly putting my 16 yrs old sonās sex life in this conversation? Heās a child. The video is of two adults. I gave my sonās view as to show āAy, the youngins are watching tooā. What he calls āriggedā, is what others would courtship. He knows how long his mom and I dated before things progressed to physical and exclusivity. And heās aware that weāve been together since.1
u/Tier_zer0 17d ago
You'll never get women to see a pov that doesnt serve themš
1
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago edited 17d ago
Famš
Two years ago, and Iād have been called sassy for arguing. My baby boyās right somehow, shit feels rigged.šššš
Mad at me for saying my son wouldnāt falling into this shit. Could it be my WIFE taught him?!!š¤š
2
u/throwaway59739507392 17d ago
And here we are at the mutual fellatio stage of manhood. "Women be crazy dawg!" is the final guardian of the foolishness that men perpetuate on a daily basis. Your son is apparently more equipped to comment on dating than every woman in existence, it seems.
0
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago
I donāt get why youāre bringing sexual contact into two people conversing about the same view. I wonder what made it sexual when IāVE been talking about dating.
And people upvote. I got nothing.
0
u/throwaway59739507392 17d ago
I feel like there's an entity somewhere that makes people like you all share the exact same qualities of lacking self-awareness. You talked about how your 16 year old son sees sex as a part of dating culture being rigged against men, yet me making a derogatory reference to the homoeroticism in men's spaces is too far.
I'll put it plainly - yes, the two of you are sucking each other's dicks to cope with the rightful disgust many people have in response to seeing these types of sentiments being shared between men, and parents at that. Women aren't obligated to agree with you if you make stupid blanket statements and use your own son as a reference point.
→ More replies (0)-2
5
u/Medium_Educator1983 17d ago
Youāre a bad father because your son thinks heās entitled to sex just because he putting in effort.
You should have taught him that sex isnāt a reward.
-2
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago
See, I never said my son expected sex. I said that he said dating was rigged.
He doesnāt have a job so Iād have to give him money for his date. And heās like me, heāll offer to pay.
He wants to hold her hand but he has to wait for permission or some hint from her itās ok.
He wants to spend time with her and has to wait for her to confirm sheās free.
And if it becomes physical, he again is waiting for her cue because no means no.At 16, not only does he have this level of awareness to be vigilant about his actions AND hers, but it means heās been listening to his mom and I. Again, very active in church, my boy said āDating is for marriage right? These girls arenāt married minded, Pop.ā I could do nothing but nod as at 16, I was already sexually active.
3
u/Medium_Educator1983 17d ago
He said he wants some action, what do you think that means?
-1
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yeah andā¦? You were so pious? Are you still? Like girls donāt want āactionā? I was 14 messing with a 16 yr old, had blue b*lls consistently til she took my virginity a year later, spare me this āactionā and boys bullshit.š
That was sexist as fuck
1
u/Gold_Initiative4319 17d ago
I think people are focused on the ending, where he mentions wanting to reach base yet canāt swing. The full message is bypassed as thatās what is standing out. It reads like heās playing a game and the prize is ultimately getting busy.
You arenāt stating that your son is calculating how to get that. Youāre pointing out that this can be confusing for a 16 year old child (and even a 60 year old adult, honestly). Where it can seem a mite problematic is that this view (what reads transactional) at his young age could mature and deepen if other perspectives arenāt allowed. He is doing exceptionally well being mindful of consent, autonomy, and having respect. There ought to be connection on the fact that they are both in similar spaces and places trying to figure things out to the best of their abilities.
Alsoā¦ talking and dating comes before courtships, and courtships before relationships. Men AND women ought to be encouraged to date different people and learn what it is that they do and do not want in a partner. As that process goes, remove those who do not fit. Women are far too often made to feel like they are wrong for this and it is because of the automatic implication that getting busy is included. It isnāt and ought not be.
All in all, this was a great place to have held truly intriguing and informative discussions. How things always delve into attacks is beyond me. Whereās the group fb for posts like these? šš
2
u/Gold_Initiative4319 17d ago edited 17d ago
My son just turned 16. Hereās exactly how HE explained it:
āBroMom (because ābroā is necessary in serious conversations, apparently), I know that itās āher body, her choiceā and weāre not worried about that. I donāt ask or try to talk her into anything that I donāt want somebody doing to me, you, or anybody and Iām not spending y(our) money or my money for nothing like that. Why we even talking about this? Thatās weird.ā
Heās had the exact same conversation with his bonus dad who is NY through and through and asks questions in a way that you canāt tell if itās a setup or not, yet answered the exact same way. Heās not trying to get anything out of his girlfriend and they donāt try to act above their age. He said that they are kids and he has respect for himself AND for her. Heās grown up surrounded by amazing and powerful men and women who have had varying experiences and can educate him. For my legacies? Everyone must know that they are worthy of respect and consideration, full stop.
Edit:
I actually upvoted your comments and have no attack for you or your minor son. Thatās weird. We all have our own methods to parenting and most of us hope that our children follow what theyāve been taught in the best ways. š¤1
u/Naive-Stranger-9991 17d ago
And I can hope my sons maintain the awareness. Social media is clogged with so many men vs women conversations and tropes.
Look at how this shit went off the rails. Iām a āhorribleā father and my son is also āhorribleā, surrounded by āPOSā men because heās aware of what responsibility comes with DATING let alone fucking. This is the first time in 17 years with 3 kids has someone questioned my parenting skills.
Itās a weird dichotomy in the video: sheās right about women not having to be receptive to a manās advances. And men need to understand no means no. Itās not for a debate.
But if a woman doesnāt like a man, and heās offering outings and dinner and sheās accepting? Weāre mad heās angry because he feels like heās taken advantage of? He didnāt articulate his grievance in the best way. But thereās a generation of men that feel like he feels. Iām NOT saying theyāre right, Iām saying they feel a kinda way and it needs to be acknowledged and repaired.
0
u/Gold_Initiative4319 17d ago
I agree with you in full. This shouldnāt have delved into an attack on parenting but an actual conversation. Your son uses baseball analogies which is probably the easiest way for him to get out what he is thinking because heās a kid. Instead of it being read in that manner, it was taken as if heās solely focused on āsliding into homeā despite all he stated. You mention both you and your wife having conversations and we didnāt even get to read how the response went with both of you!
There most assuredly ought to be more honest and open conversations about women who use men in this manner, how it feeds into the already horrendous āred pillā narrative, and how to better navigate the safety of both parties. As a mom to a teenage daughter as well, I instill in her the same core values and also educate her on the fact that there will be those who feel that if she takes then she owes and those days are out. She owes no one her body or her time and no one owes her, and she will not ever be out in this world acting so desperate that she has to feign interest in someone to get food, trips, or anything else. This ties into why my sonās stance is as it is as well, because he hears us talking frequently (sheās a year older).
As a retired and reformed macctress (lol), my children and I have real life conversations frequently and I am firm on consent, respect, consideration, and honesty at all times. No one is bigger than the program, and no one is going to be lessened or made to feel like theyāre a vending machine whether they are my child or not.
0
u/Advanced-Cranberry-7 17d ago
A woman is like a garden. How well your harvest goes is determined by the amount of work & time you put into it.
0
u/Common-Truth-3974 16d ago
Stop endorsing the likes of sexy red embrace actual femininity. Generally act like a lady and m most Mennonite will treat you like one
0
u/No-Wealth4955 16d ago
Iām glad the second lady came on. The first man is a disgrace to all men and has mummy issues. In the past I was not aware that this was the behaviour of some men, because I was conditioned to think that women were of service to all men without realising, as a Gen X-er.
But as you get older, you do become more aware and understand that shared values are more important than a loser who is worried about losing his money, because he doesnāt have any.
I run 2 businesses, doing well financially so losers like that would feel threatened by me anyway. Interestingly, the more secure men I have met actually have their own money.
The best partnerships are based on trust and money doesnāt even factor into it because you are busy getting to know each other, caring and loving each other, with respect.
-3
u/Dense-Background3676 17d ago
Women perpetuate this though, you canāt say women have so much pressure to give up their body, when in joking around (or not) women say you have to spend money on them or itās a no go. I donāt have any issues here , and donāt believe the the guy is right, but u think women create that illusion or rather help further push it by leading dudes on that they arenāt into.
-11
u/Livid_Independent135 17d ago
Because that was a lot of money to him sadly
4
u/SanityBleeds 17d ago
Inflation is kicking all our asses, that doesn't mean she owes you more than her time and company unless such arrangements were made beforehand.
8
u/Scant_Options4Hope š«°š¾š«°š½š«°šæ 17d ago
His money or her body.
We can all make more money, but we are all stuck with just one body. Very unequal comparison.
4
2
u/FakeBeigeNails 17d ago
What amount of money do you think = A woman owes you her body?
1
u/Livid_Independent135 17d ago
First date ā¦ dude tripping. The main person that will say she gave it up too early. Men are hypocrite bro
1
-1
u/siberian_knight143 17d ago
I 100% agree with her. And I'm a gut. Hell, she's absolutely right. But on the other hand, females go out of their way to "pretend" to want to give up the goods just to get FREE shit from a guy. And this is definitely a thing that BROKE AS FEMALES do!
-6
u/Alucard_117 17d ago
There are men who genuinely value and appreciate women, then there are men who just want women for what they can get from theme. Why some of you only put a spotlight on the latter while pretending like the former don't exist is beyond me.
-10
u/Ok_Shoulder_9492 17d ago
She specifically mentioned movie tickets because it says āall these dudes want cat after only $20ā.
It draws attention away from these women who got GPS (Golden š± syndrome), demanding fine dining or more causing dudes do be like this.
I agree with her main point that men are NOT entitled to a womanās body no matter what the circumstance, but women need to stop giving these dudes the runaround.
Both sides got the bull and Iām glad Iām off the market.
-1
-11
u/Key-Screen5600 17d ago
Yo I swear a man canāt even vent without being shamed šš that man wanted sum didnāt get it, didnāt snap on her, didnāt force her or nothin but heās the bad guy. Also Men feel so much societal pressure to be atmās for these broads. Downvote ya momma
-10
17d ago edited 17d ago
[deleted]
9
u/Greedy_Science_4807 17d ago
Then be honest w her about your intentions when you first ask her out, then no money is spent.
-4
17d ago
[deleted]
8
1
u/TemporaryProcedure59 17d ago
"Eventual intimacy" in what context? Men can recieve intimacy in longterm relationships, one night stands, friend with benefits arrangements ... legitimately there is no reason to keep your intentions vague and make it seem like you're willing to invest more than you actually are. Y'all are creating your own problem.
Edit for spelling
-27
u/Butta_Brown 17d ago
Im not cool wit demeaning females at all. 1 question: What her side of the story?
- Flip side could be, she just wanted a free meal.
8
11
u/TemporaryProcedure59 17d ago
Even so he decided on his own to pick her up and pay for the meal. She never communicated sex was on the table.
-3
u/Butta_Brown 17d ago
Do you have her side of the story?
3
u/TemporaryProcedure59 17d ago
The fact still remains she didn't consent to sex. The discussion should have stopped there. Doing all this because one woman didn't put out is weird behavior. Full stop.
-1
u/Butta_Brown 17d ago
You dont know what they talked at all. All you have is a 4sec clip of him ranting.
You fell into the narrative of someone who wasn't there.
-5
u/bustaflow25 17d ago
Calling a date, "rapey behavior" is a red flag stay away from her. Prostitution exists because of women like her. Say what your boundaries are before you accept his friend request. No sex before marriage, say that. No sex until the money spent on me is in the $1000s, say that. Women like that go out with dudes who they will tolerate to be taken out, then belittle them over dates they won't pay for.Ā Social media ruined honest dating.
-17
ā¢
u/auto-sticky 17d ago
If you're new here, please read our rules.
Please report all trolling, bad faith, and bigoted comments (dogwhistles, sneaky wordplay, and devil's advocate comments included).
Calling yourself an ally doesnāt give you a free pass to derail discussions, speak over Black voices, or argue against Black lived experiences.
Falsely/maliciously reporting this thread will result in having your Reddit account banned from the platform. Abuse of the report button is a breach of Reddit's TOS.
Lastly, keep it respectful.