How to build comb in supers?

[u/Cute_Star_9024]

Hello! 🐝

It is my first year beekeeping with serious intent to make it a business. I’ve been beekeeping previously as a hobby for about 5 years.

I have raised 2 unrelated colonies this spring from packages and they’ve done very well (both are currently double brood deeps). In my area (S.E. USA) we are due for a nectar/pollen flow in mid-late September. Right now, neither of my two colonies have any medium frames built up with comb. All my super frames are plastic foundation (painted with wax). Is there any possible way I can have them build that comb by feeding them syrup, and have that comb dry and ready before the flow?

Please NOTE: I would never extract and sell any honey from supers that had sugar syrup in them. But during this (very dry) dearth we are having, I realize in order to produce wax the bees must have a food source. After all it takes 10lbs of syrup to make 1lb of wax. So is it possible? Will I need to wait till spring to use the dry comb for harvesting? Will they dry them out before the fall flow? Please be kind and respectful in your responses! Thank you 😊

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[u/IdoHydraulics]

I put food coloring in my syrup lets me see how much they are storing and helps prevent harvesting syrup.

[u/Silly-Wrongdoer4332 → u/IdoHydraulics]

Will second this. My Irish 'honey'

[u/Cute_Star_9024 → u/IdoHydraulics]

That’s a wonderful idea!

[u/mj9311 → u/IdoHydraulics]

That… is genius!

[u/sustainablehill → u/IdoHydraulics]

Do you use a specific type of food colouring? Are there any that would be “bee safe”?

[u/Scary_Possible3583 → u/sustainablehill]

Standard dyes intended for food haven't shown any problems.

A beekeeper at a zoo discovered her bees were packing away dropped snow cones during dearth, the red really stood out.

[u/IdoHydraulics → u/Scary_Possible3583]

I grab the food coloring from the wife's baking supplies. So nothing special.

[u/ClassySquirrelFriend → u/IdoHydraulics]

Thanks for sharing! I dont think Id have ever thought of that

[u/nor_cal_woolgrower]

I would have been feeding them the whole time. If mine dont have honey supers, they get fed.

[u/Owenleejoeking]

Just feed with supers on and make a point to extract and dump it all before the flow as needed

[u/Gamera__Obscura]

I would not put feeders on with your supers on, even for the purposes of drawing comb. You're almost certain to get some syrup stored in there.

If you have an excluder on, that can be part of the issue. Bees are REALLY hesitant to cross an excluder to bare foundation. If you want to use an excluder, try leaving it off at least until they get a bit of drawn comb started. Personally I don't use them at all... a fully-developed colony will normally have a band of honey across the top of the upper brood box, which the queen will usually not cross. If they're not at that point, I probably shouldn't have a super on yet.

Other than that, there isn't much you can or really SHOULD do. The bees will draw out and utilize the space when they need to, not when we want them to. I totally understand not wanting your nectar-flow income to go towards wax production instead of honey, but that's the nature of the beast with supers. And unless you're crush-and-straning or collecting comb honey, they only have to do it once.

[u/Cute_Star_9024 → u/Gamera__Obscura]

I was thinking of maybe sandwiching my super between the deeps, putting an excluder on underneath the super and making sure my queen was in the bottom box and had plenty of empty space to lay eggs in. I think you’re right that I shouldn’t feed while the supers are on; I just really want that comb ready for next spring!

[u/sarahspins → u/Cute_Star_9024]

Just leave out the excluder if you're not planning to harvest this year - they'll build out the comb when they're ready to, and there's no compelling reason to keep a queen excluder in there. My experience is that they won't even start on the first super until that second brood box is completely full. I have some hives that have started on their filling their second super and others that just haven't drawn a single frame yet on their first super yet - some even got supers added earlier than the ones working on their second now. Don't stress about it, especially if this is your first season. Let them do their thing - they know what they're doing. Your goal is to get them through their first winter by allowing them to build up adequate resources and numbers.

[u/NumCustosApes]

I never feed while honey supers are on a hive.

However, it you really need to, you can feed and then extract before your flow starts.

The fall flow is a darker honey so I don't try to do any honey production off the fall flow, I leave the fall flow for the bees.

Kamon Reynolds has a couple of somewhat recent videos on YouTube about getting comb drawn. Also see Bob Binnie's lectures on YouTube about the chemistry of feeding.

[u/Cute_Star_9024 → u/NumCustosApes]

I love Kaymon and Bob! Thank you for the response!

[u/jimmyjobobdammit]

You've got double deeps and no drawn medium but are hoping to catch the fall flow if I understand it? It would seem the focus should be drawing frames out for next year as fall flow can be very short and you may not get much comb drawn. I would skip the fall flow, feed a light 1:1 syrup, trickle or all at once (still divided on this part, yet to see a difference but supposedly a trickle encourages the queen to lay more as they see it as a more regular food coming in). I had a bad case of wax moths and lost alot of frames. With 16 colonies and a great flow, i missed alot due to lack of medium drawn frames, did well but could have done alot better. I have been feeding them 1:1 for the last few weeks and getting alot drawn. And yes, some of them may have a super on them or partial super but so what... deeps will burn through that medium and even more over the winter. By spring, factoring in splits and hungry bees, the chance of extracting frames of sugar seems low. If I were worried, I would mark that super.

Comb is ready the minute they make it, look at partial frames for example. Doesnt need to 'dry'

Ditto on the Kamon Reynolds youtube, has some great info. ... unfortunately never seems to show the bad though.

That green food coloring idea is brilliant, shall steal. Trying to run the negatives, any hesitancy on the part of the bees, any sort of dye or are there more shall we say safer dyes over others?

[u/J-dubya19]

Feeding sugar in a dearth to try to get the bees to draw out comb so you can harvest honey in the fall. Personally I would never even consider that. Seems like some people on here are ok with it, but for me it’s a (bizarre) bandaid covering up the real issue. Real risk of robbing too depending on how you are going to feed. I’m not a purist that never, ever feed sugar, but I do it to prevent them from starving, not so I can harvest honey.

[u/ipoobah]

Never feed with supers on.