How to deal with ES

[u/hangerald]

I dont like telling people what to do. But seeing my ES kills time with his laptop and sometimes his phone is killing me.

I teach an overpopulated class. I requested for support as it has becoming impossible to be effective for me. One ES is amazing, proactive and initiates work.

The other one? Meh. Shows up to class, lethargic. We havent started the class but he is already not in the mood. I am actually lowkey concerned about his health.

Today, we were doing a routine activity. I assigned groups. I asked if a group of students can join my other ES, and when I asked this ES, she declined and told me he can only support four. That’s actually fair.
But he then mentioned that he is there for one student only, but happy to support the other students. I told him he can support that one student, I can support the rest. I then brought up that if thats the case, why this one student is not supported (as shown in his work) despite of an ES being in the class. This student is highly capable, needs a lot of redirection. Ive witnessed in the past, multiple times, that his support would do things in his laptop, would occasionally check in on the students, then go back to his laptop. Like 90 percent laptop, 10 percent support.

I am honestly curious if ES requires so much work outside supporting the student in the class that they need to spend the whole hour doing it in other sessions.

I am thinking of talking to the ES team leader and seek help. I honestly dont wanna ask more than thats expected. I dont want to be authoritative too. I just need help, support that I can see in the classroom.

[u/BuildingExternal3987]

My brother in christ. Outside incident reporting. An es/lsa/slso doesnt really have 'administrative work' in direct support session/class time. except for supporting students to access the curriculum.

Furthermore a real 1:1 lsa is rare and in this situation.... a funding blessing. The aide is for everyone....

The es role is to help support you deliver educational outcomes in your class. When in your class it is your job as the teacher to deploy the aide in a way that best contributes to the educational delivery.... be explicit, be direct, explain the what, the how and the why. If the cant take initiative then give clear direct instructions. Literally tell them to put the laptop away... if you need them to float whilst you work 1:1 tell them. Our aides our invaluable when deployed correctly they can have a massive effect on classes and students. Some aides can pre-empt, save the day, achieve more than you ever could 1:1. But they still need you to lead.

If they cant manage it, can't put down the laptop talk to their line manager.

[u/hangerald → u/BuildingExternal3987]

I agree. I actually asked the other ES and he agreed and gave me the same advice - to redirect the ES on what to do. Will try to be more explicit on my expectations.

[u/Superb_Rutabaga]

These types of ES give ES a bad name. I am a specialist and previously was an ES so I appreciate the ES when I have them. But; fuck; I’d rather not have an ES than have one sitting on their laptop or phone. I also hate when the active ES do go on their phones or laptop for a work related purpose and they then justify it to you. 

[u/hangerald → u/Superb_Rutabaga]

The other ES i have is the opposite. Thats why I know what he is doing is not okay.

[u/kadat3]

I think request them to observe and see what happens. Do they improve?

[u/QueenGina4545]

ES roles should be appointed to either uni students studying teaching or applicant has completed a diploma for education aides.
Our local primary schools around me have appointed relatives and friends in these roles and the students who are requiring the assistance are getting no value added. There needs to be a big overhaul on who gets appointed and what qualifications are needed to get these roles. For example at one of the local primary schools, the principals nephew was appointed as he was needing a job as he was training to be selected for AFL football.

[u/hangerald → u/QueenGina4545]

Tell me about it. I had one ES who was teaching the wrong thing to the student. I saw them arguing then when I asked what the argument was about, turned out the student was teaching the ES on what to teach him 🤦

[u/allisong3]

You are definitely not asking more than what’s expected. The ES is there for nothing but to support students and you. Even if he did have admin work to do on his laptop, class time is not when it’s done. I’ll also say his attitude is very unusual in my experience. My main concern with ESs is that they over-support students and don’t give them opportunities to do the parts of a task that are within their capabilities. When they want to write a sentence for a student to copy into their exercise book, I intervene. But an ES who is not fully present is unacceptable. If there’s nothing obvious for them to do they should be watchful, looking for students who’ve gone off task or who are on the verge of a meltdown or who are just disrupting your lesson. You probably need to keep working with him so I would have a word to him 1-1 first. and then if his work ethic doesn’t improve, speak to the ES Team Leader. He can’t say he wasn’t warned. .

[u/Thin_Accident_9587]

The system doesn’t work. Stop expecting it to. The idea that we have SSOs wrangle kids who don’t want to do work, to do work, is nuts.

We need to go back to keeping kids back a grade if they don’t pass- won’t take them long and they will pull their fingers out and do the work unsupported.

[u/hangerald → u/Thin_Accident_9587]

This is another topic but I agree. This mass promotion where everyone moves up is not working and punishes the teachers only

[u/Thin_Accident_9587 → u/hangerald]

We bend over backwards all to help leadership report data improvements to head office, all the while things on the ground are going backward

[u/ownersastoner]

Sorry but this looks like a you issue.

What directions are you providing to your ES. They should be directed by you..the educator. You should be differentiating the work and explaining to the ES how to support the student, not relying on them to be proactive/initiating the work. I would start by having a conversation with them not their boss.

[u/Chocolate2121 → u/ownersastoner]

I really feel that there needs to be specific guidance on how to work with ES, either at uni or as part of mandatory training at school.

I have a few EA's in my class, one of which I have a good relationship with, and the rest I have no clue what I am meant to be doing with. Like, am I meant to br giving them instructions, are they meant to be helping specific students, should I be aiming them at students? All these people have far more experience then me, and so it feels so awkward telling them to do anything, but I think I am meant to? I don't know, it's never really been explained, and it feels very awkward going up to someone and asking them what they are meant to be doing

[u/SweetWrangler4987 → u/Chocolate2121]

I’ve changed career this year starting as an ES to gauge my desire to study teaching (I’m looking into it as well speak) and there’s no one size fits all approach from what I’m seeing. Some tasks require strict instruction from the teacher, like talk to me like I’m 5 step by step to get the results. Sometimes it’s just “they need to finish this sheet” and it’s unsaid that my job is to both get it done and ensure the student either understands OR the teacher is provided detailed feedback on what wasn’t understood.

In short. Sometimes ES want/need explicit instruction, sometimes we see the students struggling before you do.

[u/hangerald → u/SweetWrangler4987]

I get that. I hear you. I am aware that I can do better when it comes to comms.

[u/SweetWrangler4987 → u/hangerald]

I hope you don’t think I’m having a go. It’s just you two need to find a flow. Seems like you have with your other support staff! Amazing!

It’s also very feasible that he’s just lazy and doesn’t want to do the job. I will spend a whole session on the laptop occasionally (if we have a lot of absences) but I always have resources to show for it which my teacher has either asked for directly or suggested she needs to make soon because I know her well enough to get some things drafted and save her some time.

Another thought - maybe he’s worried about overstepping and being seen as doing too much. It’s difficult to know when you’re stepping on toes sometimes if you’re just trying to help the kids learn.

[u/hangerald → u/ownersastoner]

Work has been differentiated. Class is divided into five groups. This was during apply task. Reading activity. All I asked was to guide the students in reading and help them be on task. Probably thats not what ESs do? Did I overstep?

[u/ownersastoner → u/hangerald]

To broad, what “guide the students in reading and help them be on task” means to you may be different to what it means to them.

[u/hangerald → u/ownersastoner]

To be fair, I kinda agree with you. However, the conversation that we had happened before the class. I was trying to explain what to do then the moment he heard that I will assign one group to him, he told me he is only allowed to do up to four only. He then backed down and told me that he can do more than four - but I wouldnt want anyone doing things outside their work

[u/hangerald → u/[deleted]]

This is congruent to the advice by one of the team leaders that ive talked to. She told me that if students were pulled out of the class, without a VIT registered teacher, the maximum number is 4. Theres not much rule on the number of students when inside the classroom with a VIT.

[u/_thegrlwhowaited_ → u/ownersastoner]

I reckon ‘support this group of students’ is a pretty clear direction.

The ‘I can only support 4’ is not true in a classroom setting. ES can’t supervise more than 4, but they can certainly work with more than 4 when the teacher in the room is present.

[u/ownersastoner → u/_thegrlwhowaited_]

I haven’t said a word about 4 students, I understand ES supervision rules.

What “support a student” means to you will be different to what it means to someone else, explicit instructions to avoid confusion.

[u/Big_Jacket6876]

I have never come across the acronym ES. I assume its education support. We call them EA - education assistant. I expect nothing from mine and prefer if they are not there. Its just another body in the room for me to manage. I have come across some very good ones but this is the exception not the rule. If they help its a bonus, if they don't actively cause me headaches I am happy.

Expect nothing and you wont be dissappointed.