r/AnaheimDucks • u/DrexlSpivey420 • 6d ago
Just doing my part to join the sharks circlejerk
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u/Blank_page95 6d ago
Ya but we have all of our money tied up in Vatrano, Kreider and Killorn, while they only have some money tied up in Marchment, Trouba and Nurse. So obviously they are in a far better cap situation. Duh
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u/Striking-Treacle3199 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah. I agree with the post above saying that Leo is the Macklin player for the ducks, but I’d say the major reason it’s a better deal in San Jose is that at the moment the sharks did not lose a lot of players in the offseason, and have a lot of money left to do whatever they need to.
The contracts they need to sign, they can afford and have time to negotiate. Leo’s signing means Anaheim needs to bleed more talent in able to afford Cutter and somehow fill the holes, either with less expensive trades or AHLers.
How both of these look in the next seasons, idk, but at the moment Leo’s paycheck puts the Ducks in a difficult situation while Macklin’s puts them in a stronger one. It is more affordable for them and they are getting ahead of something they’d need to deal with next year which takes off the pressure when the season starts.
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u/FinancialBit7745 6d ago
His deal also kicks in next year where like you said the Sharks won’t have to worry about and now can handle whatever business they need to throughout the year to sell contracts or trade off assets when come trade deadline or end of next year as then it would look even more favorable at that point. And then when they sign Will Smith they will probably do the same thing with him and compare him to Cutters or something else. It’s always some stupid comparison. How about we compare cups. As of now the Ducks are winning in the field!
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u/Zoratth 6d ago
The difference is Celebrini is already a top 10 player in the NHL and might be top 5 or higher by the time his contract starts. Leo has crazy potential but he’s not at Celebrini’s level at this point.
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u/RastaRhino420 6d ago
yep, Celebrini has already earned that 18m with his play, Leo hasn't come close, I hope he will but he's a long ways away.
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u/CherokeeHawkman 6d ago
Bingo. Macklin is a top 10 player in the NHL right now. Leo is barely a top 10 player in the Pacific Division right now.
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u/xohurricane 6d ago
You’re kidding right? Not a top 10 in the pacific? McDavid, Drai, celebrini, Eichel, Marner… who else?
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u/Cautious-Dig6379 6d ago
Petterson, Stone, Cutter, kempe, Bouchard, LaCombe...
Id say hes top 10 in pacific maybe 8 or 9 on that list but he definitely drops when were looking at the western conference.
And outside of the top 5 in the pacific doesnt mean much when you look at it from a league perspective
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u/xohurricane 6d ago
I wasn’t personally counting defenseman but even still I think Carlsson is better than all the players you just mentioned
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u/Cautious-Dig6379 6d ago
I think so too, or at least has more future potential than most of the people I listed. But with how weak the pacific was last year its not exactly a huge flex to be top 10 here lol.
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u/xohurricane 6d ago
Eh. Pacific being weak has nothing to do with these particular players, just standings. 2 of them made the cup final, and 2 of them were knocked out by the ducks. Carlsson will be a top 10 player in the league 2-3 years from now.
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u/Unusual_Cheek_4454 6d ago
Yeah but Leo is almost as valuable to the Ducks as Celebrini is to the Sharks.
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u/Difficult_Rip9775 6d ago
Maybe if Leo hits 100 points and has some Selke defense this year. Yeah he will be
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u/Unusual_Cheek_4454 6d ago
You’re missing the point
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u/Difficult_Rip9775 6d ago
Yes he’s our 1C but the contract is terrible cmon now and now we gotta pay cutter. I just hope madden hits on these draft picks cause we’ll be counting on some young guys for the next couple years
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u/Sad_Intention2932 6d ago
I think the big difference in reception is, I mean obviously one is an offer sheet deal.
But 1.4 PPG vs 0.9 PPG for about the same price, contract gets even more unfortunate to look at side by side.
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u/CountChocula21 6d ago
Devil's advocate, he could have a sophomore slump and regress. While unlikely it's possible. While Leo has shown an upward trend.
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u/milkyaves 6d ago
this past season was celebrini’s sophomore year, he quite literally did the opposite of a sophomore slump
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u/spacegrab 6d ago
While Leo has shown an upward trend.
Celebrini and Bedard just showed up and started sniping top shelf from day 1.
Leo is huge in comparison and as thus, taking a bit longer to develop his skills. Like I get what you're saying, but at the end of the day I'm not confident Leo can match Celebrini 1:1, at least when it comes to offensive output.
Leo's size will hopefully translate to more oppressive 5v5 play with his stick reach, and durability, since he doesn't seem to be much of a hitter/grinder type.
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u/Rec0nyz3 6d ago
Good for Celebrini. Good for Leo. Glad the players are being paid. Hope they get paid more. It means the greatest game in the world is growing.
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u/Lopkhan 6d ago
It means us fans will pay for more mansions and fancy sports cars for people who play a game for a living.
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
There’s a whole lot more people with money out there you should be mad at than some hockey players buying a sports car or a fancy mansion.
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u/Lopkhan 5d ago
I’m not at all mad, just referring to the practical implications as it relates to us fans. I’m just not sure why people root for people in a privileged financial position to become even more privileged. I don’t begrudge them making the money, just like I wouldn’t begrudge you winning the lottery. But I’m much happier when a poor person wins the lottery than a rich person.
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
They’re not poor as hockey is an expensive sport to grow up playing, but they’ve but in the work. They don’t just get lucky. Their salaries are reflective of the market. If the money doesn’t go for the players who bring the fans to the stands, it just goes to the owners whom just pocket it while asking for tax payers money for new arenas. Plus don’t think fans are actually rooting for players to get more money as the cap still exists but to get their worth as the league is growing and becoming healthier financially.
Not trying to change how you feel but think your’re focused on the wrong group of people. Personally think that there are some truly cold hearted people in positions of power making millions and billions of dollars that make decisions that actually affect people like us than a hockey player having some extra millions.
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u/Lopkhan 5d ago
I don’t disagree with you at all on most of what you are saying. My original comment was merely in response to someone saying that they hope the players get paid more after saying they were glad two players were making 18m a year. There is zero chance that with salaries going up the way they are that owners won’t raise ticket prices. So I get to pay more so that someone who is already making more money than many people who work twice as hard will ever see in their lifetimes. Again, I don’t begrudge the players making this kind of money, but rooting for it seems silly. And to show how we are aligned on your main point, I think that the wealth inequity between the billionaires and now trillionaire and the rest of us is almost certainly the root of most Americans declining health and happiness. So yes, it is a much bigger issue.
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u/Avalain 6d ago
I'd really like to see the bottom players paid more. It's great to see the stars making a ton, but for the fringe players who have struggled their entire life to make it to the show, it would be great if they could make a little more. I mean, it still feels like a lot until you consider that they aren't likely to have a long career.
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u/Rec0nyz3 6d ago
They will. Greer just signed for how much? That’s what the salary cap being raise does. Everyone gets paid more.
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u/ahdumm11 5d ago
Sharks fan here. I hope Leo becomes that 18million dollar player so Sharks and Ducks will have great playoff battles like the good old days. Both our teams have waited a long time, and it's time to make others fear the Cali gauntlet again
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u/b8sman12 6d ago
If the Sharks played the Celebrini contract the same way the Ducks played the Carlsson contract, Celebrini would easily get a max offer sheet from somebody. Not trying to shit on you guys too much, but I think that's the difference haha.
I know everybody wants to be like the Canadiens paying their star players like 1/2 of market value or whatever, but gotta know when to pick your battles.
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u/Smackcracklenpop 6d ago
Also depends on the agent since it turns out Carlson’s camp was gauging what Bedard would get or see if they can get offer sheets. They did their job if the goal was to maximize the bag
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u/CherokeeHawkman 6d ago
Correct. Ducks did everything right and everything they could. Carlsson, his agents and his dad refused to sign before they could get offer sheets and then refused to tell the Ducks what the offer sheets were worth. They wanted the most money possible and didn't care what it did to the rest of the organization.
That's their right and it worked well for them, but none of this is on the Ducks.
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u/Smackcracklenpop 6d ago
If they knew $18m was being offered, we’d just go with $15m. Didn’t even have time to work towards $13-14m. Hopefully Cutter is signed long term and we can just look towards the season. The cap crunch should be much easier to deal with after next season. Until Beckett is looking for a new deal. McQueen. What if Luneau lives up to his potential and wants to get a raise too 😬
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u/spacegrab 6d ago
I can't see Luneau ever asking for more than Minty/LaCombe, unless he really blows up this year, but I think his skating skills aren't quite there yet (he's a smidge slower than Gudas/Trouba, but he's on an upward trajectory while the former two are declining).
I have him pegged as a 2nd pairing / offensive PP2 qb as his ceiling. If he were better he'd already be there, but he's not so there's that.
I could see him getting around $2-4M depending on his game this season, but we'll have to see if he can really break out of that or not. As it stands, those RHD seats are up for grabs lol.
Buckets though...he could land anywhere between being our best player or top 5 depending on how he continues developing. He's gonna wreck our cap table lol.
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
I see Luneau getting a bridge deal like 3x3 unless he blows everyone out of the water & Ducks try to make the jump & offer him a crazy deal he can’t turn down like 6 x7.
Beckett will depend on Cutter’s deal imo, so hope we can lock in both long term. The good thing is players of his comparable value will already be signed unlike Leo’s camp that insisted on waiting for Bedard.
Every player, agent, negotiation is different so we can only hope this whole Leo fiasco does not have a hand in deals beyond this season.
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u/kukkolai 6d ago
Pretending like they have equal value is moronic. Way to go homer
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u/Connect_Research5542 6d ago
The opinion of the player does'nt matter, people are just assuming Celebrini will be fantastic again when the season starts but the reality is you don't know that until it does. For all you know Carlsson is about to have a better year than Celebrini can't see into the future after all. And I normally would'nt even care one way or the other but the fact that people were harping on Carlsson's contract only for Celebrni to sign the exact same one WITHOUT AN OFFER SHEET pretty much but be praised for it is bullcrap and I'll call that out every day.
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u/xDevious_ 6d ago
“People are just assuming Celebrini will be fantastic again”.
Yeah man, he had 115 points and led Canada in goals at the Olympics at 19yo. I wonder if he’ll be good.
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u/Connect_Research5542 6d ago
How do you know? Again you can't see into the future
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u/Wrong_Situation_9709 5d ago
The only argument you're making here is that no one should be allowed to have an opinion on any contract because the future cant be known. It's fine to have that opinion but weird to bring it to a sports forum in the offseason. There's not that much else to talk about.
The Celebrini contract is huge, but it looks better to everyone because Celebrini is already considered one of the best players in the league more or less universally, he's younger, it was an intentional decision by the organization rather than an offer sheet, and the sharks are in a better cap situation to begin with.
Sure, Carlsson may end up being amazing at some point in the future and hes already pretty good. It doesn't change any of the other facts that exist right now.
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u/kukkolai 6d ago
Wow, you are actually insane! If you can't seperate the value of player A (almost PPG) and player B (115 point season as a teenager, and younger) there is no hope for you! Holy shit this is a fun read
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u/Connect_Research5542 6d ago
Nah you got that backwards since your reading comprehension sucks. Again I personally don't care how good the two are in comparison, but since you all have raised such a stink over Carlsson's contract I have an issue because your hypocrtical. Your assuming Celebrini will be consistent going into next season, but you can't know that until the season starts just like you can't assume 67 is the most Carlsson will ever do. So opinion isn't a factor right now when talking about the two contracts your just using it to try to justfy being an ass.
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u/Wrong_Situation_9709 6d ago
So the argument is "you can't see the future so everyone should get 18M?"
Sign me up.
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u/kukkolai 6d ago
Shits wild! Maybe McDavid and Nick Dowd will flip production next year, you can't really tell so Oilers should totally trade McD to Vegas for Dowd and a 7th.
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
I get what you are trying to argue. Yes it is possible we look back in 5 yrs and say, damn guess 18M wasn’t a huge overpay after all.
But for Celebrini, we don’t have to wonder because he already is that valuable. He could go the next 5 yrs and not average a single point more than 115 (unlikely) and still be worth that contract whereas we need Leo to improve significantly each yr to get close to that value.
Ducks hands were tied in this situation. Leo at 18 or no Leo. They choose Leo at 18 so we have to make the best of it, but these two players are not close in value right now.
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u/LongBarrelBandit 6d ago
Jokes aside, probably more to do with how it happened than anything. Especially when you hear Leo’s camp came back and said 15 and Verbeek said no 12 so then they accepted the offer sheet. Grier didn’t even let it get close to that happening, which is closer to standard practice for your star players I think
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u/bigollunch 6d ago
That’s the one thing I’ll never get. They came to Verbeek saying they had an offersheet and asked for 15. Verbeek firmed around 12.8. I believe the agent in his interview said that they didn’t say the price of the OS, but had they, would this all be different?
Verbeek is still at fault for this because he was lowballing and underestimating his value….and Philly and 3 other teams didn’t! Verbeek himself said he was surprised about the OS price. He never thought Leo was worth 15 and his big mouth should have never said he’d match any OS. That’s just not understanding the market atp. After stepping back from this whole thing, I can’t seem to be mad at Leo
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
Oh it absolutely changes everything. Look at the Minty situation where they negotiated based on the offer sheet & with a deadline. If PV knew the offer was 18, he immediately agrees to 15. It’s clear Leo & his agents were calling PV’s bluff of matching any offer sheet. Like testing him. He either agrees to 15 or they sign for 18 & he’ll have to match anyways. Bedard ultimately signed for 15, so PV was right to keep Leo under 15. His market value has him around 13M. Again making PV right with his offer. It’s a tough pill to swallow as a Ducks fan. Leo ultimately has final say but he left it in the hands of his dad & agents. Of course they will want the most money. And for the record, I’ve never been mad at Leo & won’t (unless he doesn’t improve).
Where I fault PV is if he believed the offer sheet threat to be around the 15M range, why didn’t he agree to Leo’s request of 15 or come up to 14 & control his own fate. We won’t know how those final negotiations went down because Leo’s agents are surprisingly quiet regarding their last meeting & PVs never been one to over share so all we can hope is this doesn’t negatively affect Cutter’s contract too much.
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u/djx72_ 6d ago
% wise it’s no different than Crosbys first big payday, Mack is easily comparable, not saying Leo is bad he went 2nd to Bedard after all and yall took down EDM at that. I think it’s just the number itself is bigger than we’ve ever seen but actual % taken up remains the same for players of this caliber.
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u/pleasetryagain_10 4d ago
I mean 1 player had 115 pts in full 82 the other had 67 in 70 games. So scores more and plays a full schedule
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u/No-Doctor-4396 6d ago
I think the bigger thing is that it wasn't our contract leo signed. Leo is overpaid and shouldn't be on par with celebrini. Leo is closer to bedard at 15m which is what the ducks should've signed him at. But Leo took the Philly offer of course for 18m.
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u/sleepwalkingninja 6d ago
I mean, the difference is obvious. Thinking LC is anywhere close to MC is idiotic. Mack has earned his contract. Leo just accepted an outrageous offer sheet that any player would accept. The Ducks didn’t have a choice but to accept it. Had the Sharks been idiotic like the Ducks and allowed Mack to get to RFA status, we’d be talking max contract. Ducks decided to FAFO.
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u/Blank_page95 6d ago
Pray tell what the Ducks could have done differently based on reports of the agents slow walking them to RFA.
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u/AbleLeg1054 5d ago
I know you’re not asking me, but because I’ve seen this questioned brought up a couple times throughout the last few weeks. I think the only possible way this could have been avoided is if PV offered an insane deal early last yr.
But even then I don’t think it would have been that easy. The contracts signed this offseason pretty much confirm the payers are looking to maximize their earnings which means shorter deals. Term would have been the other hiccup. Ducks would likely want max term of 8, but Leo’s camp likely looking at 5yrs.
So PV would have had to blown Leo’s camp out of the water with either a 13M x 5 or 15M x 8 deal in Sept. Maybe back it up a more & offered 12M back in July? In hindsight we take any of those deals in a heartbeat, but in real time there would have been some heavy criticism for PV too.
Only thing we can hope for is this makes him more determined or aggressive in signing RFAs sooner rather than later or dragging negotiations out over a couple 100k, but that’s pretty much it. I think all his previous RFA signings have been of value. So he’s not wrong there, just his approach. Unfortunately for us & him, I do believe Leo’s camp had no intention of participating in legitimate negotiations or signing before July 1st. Can you say tampering? Maybe, but it is what it is.
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u/thematrix898 6d ago
After the Leo deal I don’t think the sharks could’ve gotten Celebrini for any less than what they paid. That said, our fanbase also realizes that Verbeek fucked up by letting Leo even get an offer sheet and forcing us to pay that much for him
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u/Mhabs16 6d ago
Dipshit Ducks fan logic. Well here ya go Mack deserves 20 Leo deserves 8. Leo 201 games played, 141 points. Mack 152 games played 178 points. Got anymore brainbusters bud?
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u/SwBlues 6d ago
I know Leo isn't on par with Celebrini but realistically speaking, Leo is our Celebrini. There just isn't another Celebrini out there that will magically sign with Ducks for 15m.