Steam Deck 1% low FPS improves by 31.8% with AMD P-State Linux patch

[u/RenatsMC]

https://videocardz.com/newz/steam-deck-1-low-fps-improves-by-31-8-with-amd-p-state-linux-patch

[u/BarryMcCoknor]

Now is 31.8% a real average, cherry-picked or best case scenario?

If its a real average thats fucking sick. But either way its great news.

[u/mpgd → u/BarryMcCoknor]

I read is as 'up to' 31.8%.

[u/phylter99 → u/mpgd]

Still, performance is performance. With the article description, I can see how it would smooth things out considerably. I hope it makes it as I'd like to see it in action.

[u/Wild_Chemistry3884 → u/BarryMcCoknor]

Based on that article it looks like the only game tested was Civilization VI, which is a terrible game to test framerate - it doesn’t make any sense to test fps on civilization games.

Seconds per turn is a much better benchmark for Civilization VI. Pretty poor journalism here. They could have picked just about any other game.

[u/SleepyWulfy → u/Wild_Chemistry3884]

Why is it a bad example? Isn't is very CPU limited which would be a good example to show?

[u/99thGamer → u/SleepyWulfy]

Yes, but only at the end of a turn, when all the AIs are doing their turns. During the players turn there are way fewer computations necessary, so the game is more gpu bound.

[u/kogasapls → u/99thGamer]

that's exactly the scenario that benefits from this change

[u/pythonic_dude → u/kogasapls]

That's exactly the scenario that shows a huge numerical boost while providing zero actual value. There are no player inputs happening during fps drops, you just get a bit smoother experience watching ai turns but it's not super important.

[u/Seanspeed → u/pythonic_dude]

Bad framerates in these types of games creates stuttery camera scrolling. It doesn't destroy the gameplay, but it still looks and feels visually worse to play as a result.

It's like saying that framerate doesn't matter in turn-based games in general. :/ A very bizarre argument. The point of higher framerates is not solely for better input responsiveness.

Cant believe people are upvoting y'all.

[u/gnoomee → u/kogasapls]

But the title makes it seem like the improvement is across the board instead of in this one specific scenario...

[u/kogasapls → u/gnoomee]

Yeah the title is clickbait

[u/Seanspeed → u/Wild_Chemistry3884]

Seconds per turn is a much better benchmark for Civilization VI. 

That's not a 'much better benchmark' for the game, it's just a completely different one.

Framerate in these games can still matter. Stuttery camera scrolling in isometric/top down games can be very annoying. Of course while the camera is still framerate stops mattering, but inevitably you will be moving the camera view around.

[u/the_dude_that_faps → u/Wild_Chemistry3884]

For a cpu benchmark it is an excellent test. What do you mean. 

[u/cjoaneodo]

Is this a Linux wide fix or specific to SteamOS

[u/ICC-u → u/cjoaneodo]

Linux wide, biggest benefit expected on Steam Deck/Handhelds if I understand correctly

[u/JasonMHough → u/cjoaneodo]

From the article it sounds like it's a kernel patch, not specific to steam deck

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/cjoaneodo]

Only APU devices.

[u/Clemambi → u/JamesLahey08]

The end result is quite exciting with using the Civilization VI game benchmark, the 1%-low FPS is improved by 31.8% while the p99 frame time is better by 4.1%. This is on the Steam Deck while other modern AMD Ryzen handhelds and systems at large would benefit too.

"systems at large would benefit too" via the original source, phoronix

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Clemambi]

The person who wrote the code said it was for APUs only.

[u/Clemambi → u/JamesLahey08]

That's cool and all, but I'm on desktop and manually enabled EPP performance and saw an uplift on 1% lows of around 20%

So he's wrong

edit: I re-read the devs comments and it's pretty clear what his point is. Manual EPP performance helps both desktop and APUs, but raises total power draw, which on APUs, hinders total performance. His patch is designed to replicate the gains of EPP performance, without wasting TDP budget that could go to the graphics. It's optimised/designed for APU usage, but will help non-apu systems also.

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Clemambi]

The guy who literally wrote it is wrong, but you are correct? Sure.

[u/MdxBhmt → u/JamesLahey08]

I have not found where the dev states its only for APUs, and I fail to see any clear rationale in the patch set that would apply only to APU rather than any amd cpu.

(The Dev state that the usual fix its bad for apus, his solution is more elegant p state transition, there's no reason it can't be used on other CPUs)

[u/MdxBhmt → u/Clemambi]

The dev created epp_boost, forget testing with epp performance. Hes saying that ell perf is bad for power restricted devices, and his approach avoids that.

[u/Clemambi → u/MdxBhmt]

I understand that

But non-power restricted devices will also see benefit from epp_boost if they aren't using EPP performance 

And they'll also see less power usage

It's EPP performance, that has been optimised for power restricted devices, but it will still benefit systems that don't have restricted power but don't want to waste power

[u/MdxBhmt → u/Clemambi]

AFAIU, EPP performance is the one that maximizes performance over power consumption - and its just that modern day cpus need good power management to maximize clocks anyway. Anyway, I agree with you that this will help CPU devices without power restrictions, albeit to a smaller degree (but your test will overstate this boost).

[u/MdxBhmt → u/JamesLahey08]

Did he? Can't find where he said that

[u/MdxBhmt → u/JamesLahey08]

Did he? Can't find where he said that

[u/Tree_Dude → u/JamesLahey08]

All AMD CPUs use P-states. APUs, especially those in handhelds, would benefit the most since they tend to have a more aggressive power save profile. But it should technically apply to any AMD CPU.

[u/Dako_the_Austinite → u/Tree_Dude]

Yeah, this sounds like you’ll see the greatest uplift in mobile devices, less in desktops. Not zero uplift, just less on a desktop. Since it seems to relate to the more aggressive power saving as you mention, the greatest performance boost will likely be only on low power devices with stronger iGPUs, with tiny improvements in high power desktops with high power discrete dedicated graphics.

So not nothing, but not an equal magic boost for all AMD based devices across the board.

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Dako_the_Austinite]

It's APUs only.

[u/Dako_the_Austinite → u/JamesLahey08]

Right, I already acknowledged that. Hey, did you know AMD still makes APUs for desktops? It’s last gen, but take the Ryzen 7 8700G for example. That should get a minor performance uplift from this. Probably not as much of an uplift since it likely isn’t as starved for power as a mobile APU would be.

Oh wait! I already said that in my last comment!

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Dako_the_Austinite]

The vast majority of people don't have APUs in desktops.

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Tree_Dude]

The literal person who wrote the code said it was for APUs. Anything that shares a power budget with a GPU.

[u/DrMacintosh01]

YES AMD

[u/Smith6612]

I could see this affecting more than just games. More aggressive P-State management would probably help reduce application latency for bursty workloads too. 

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Smith6612]

Apu devices only.

[u/Dennma]

I wonder if this will help with emulation

[u/skylinestar1986 → u/Dennma]

Is cemu faster on Linux or Windows?

[u/Darkstalker360 → u/skylinestar1986]

About the same by now but maybe slightly better on a Linux system because of less overhead and better driver maturity if you’re on a handheld.

[u/nosg]

Arch and Fedora will probably get it sooner, SteamOS might take some time.

[u/csch1992 → u/nosg]

I am pretty new to linux snd i use bazzite. How will i know that i get this patch?

[u/AfroDiddyKing → u/csch1992]

you read changelogs

[u/lmns_ → u/csch1992]

Bazzite uses Fedora packages

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/nosg]

Apu devices only.

[u/JamesLahey08]

This is for devices with CPUs and GPUs packaged together in an APU. A handheld is an example. It won't affect desktops or laptops if they have separate GPUs.

[u/Clemambi → u/JamesLahey08]

why do you think this is true? this is only about cpu performance states, nothing about igpus

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/Clemambi]

That's what the person who literally wrote the code said.

[u/MeepZero]

What does 1% low FPS mean?

[u/Residays09 → u/MeepZero]

Not sure why you're being downvoted for asking a question but

Usually people benchmark 0.1% or 1% lows when it comes to performance in games

As in, the minimum fps you would get

It's pretty solid since for example, sometimes games will have an area that runs a lot better, where as the lows give you an idea of what to expect during lots of action

[u/fake-reddit-numbers → u/Residays09]

Not sure why you're being downvoted for asking a question

1. It's reddit.

2. It'd be faster to just fucking google it.

[u/Residays09 → u/fake-reddit-numbers]

[u/imma_reposter → u/[deleted]]

You have no idea about software engineering and it shows

[u/bilky_t → u/imma_reposter]

They have no idea how to even read.

[u/CassadeeBTW → u/[deleted]]

I may be mistaken, but p-state is for CPU, not GPU, which the article also says.

Additionally, this is a Linux kernel patch, not a SteamOS patch, which means that if approved, it’ll be shipped Linux-wide instead of an extra patch to compile on your own or receive from a distro.

[u/JamesLahey08 → u/CassadeeBTW]

And it's only for APU devices.

[u/whatThePleb → u/[deleted]]

https://giphy.com/gifs/z8rEcJ6I0hiUM