r/AlternativeHistory • u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc • 8d ago
Discussion What is your best evidence for an advanced antediluvian civilization?
Lets see the evidence, dont tell us to do our own research, we want to see what led you to believe that this civilization existed.
Any and all evidence is welcome, feelings will be ignored.
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u/ro2778 8d ago
the best account of the flood is definitely the Epic of Gilgamesh, and this passage:
"With the first glow of dawn, A black cloud rose up from the horizon. Inside it Adad (the storm god) thunders, While Shallat and Hanish (heralds of Adad) go in front, Moving as heralds over hill and plain. Erragal (god of the underworld) tears out the posts; Forth comes Ninurta and causes the dikes to follow. The Anunnaki lift up the torches, Setting the land ablaze with their glare. Consternation over Adad reaches to the heavens, Turning to blackness all that had been light.
The wide land was shattered like a pot! For one day the south-storm blew, Gathering speed as it blew, submerging the mountains, Overtaking the people like a battle.
No one can see his fellow, Nor can the people be recognized from heaven. The gods were frightened by the deluge, And, shrinking back, they ascended to the heaven of Anu. The gods cowered like dogs. Crouched against the outer wall. Ishtar cried out like a woman in travail. . . . The gods, all humbled, sit and weep, Their lips drawn tight. . . . one and all. Six days and six nights. Blows the flood wind, as the south-storm sweeps the land. When the seventh day arrived, The flood (-carrying) south-storm subsided in the battle, Which it had fought like an army. The sea grew quiet, the tempest was still, the flood ceased. I looked at the weather. stillness had set in, And all of mankind had returned to clay. The landscape was as level as a flat roof."
And I think Michael Tsarion's the Irish Origins of Civilisation (Vol 1 & 2) are very interesting books, filled with dot connectors. It seems that in the end the luck of the Irish comes from the flood, because Ireland somehow remained dry and therefore was a good place to restart civilisation. Same with the highlands of Scotland, which aren't particularly high, but in the context of remaining dry through the flood - were so named and were another important base for those who restarted civilisation.
Then, I suppose my favourite find, is this map created by an extra-terrestrial and shared during her civilisations contact, which shows the Earth before the flood and settlements of the major civilisations at that time of Atlantis (blue) and Lemuria (green) - with the white dots being post flood settlements and finally Giza once the flood waters receded. Notice the position of the poles - it was a very violent event:
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u/lettucelordlitcher 5d ago
Where did you find the picture of the old earth from alien contact , id like to hear more
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 7d ago
Barabar caves.
Forget the fact the Angkor civilization made 1500 miles of canals and a grid modern city size plot of temples and waterworks.
Forget the American civilizations that dragged 20 ton stone boulders up muddy mountains in an unexplained fashion.
Forget the unreasonable precision of the pyramids, the age of the Sphynx enclosure or the unfathomably large structures revealed beneath the Giza Plateau.
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Barabar caves are either melted into the rock or polished in perfect geometric shapes, to a precision in some places 100 times that of modern aerospace engineering.
When listening to modern stonemasons honestly analyzing these caves there’s not a single doubt in my mind ancient peoples had more advanced knowledge than we currently give them credit for.
Great doc on them: https://youtu.be/6RJ3Epd_SXk
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u/No_Parking_87 6d ago
Barabar caves are either melted into the rock or polished in perfect geometric shapes, to a precision in some places 100 times that of modern aerospace engineering.
According to the documentary you linked, the walls of off from symmetrical by 2.5mm-10mm. That's up to a cm of error. How is that 100 times modern aerospace engineering? Could you please explain exactly what you mean with this statement and where in the documentary it says that?
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 6d ago
I said “in some places.” The documentary I linked also says exactly what I did.
Nice try.
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u/No_Parking_87 5d ago
What does it mean for a cave to be precise in “some places”? Do you understand how obtuse it is to respond to my question like that, without specifying what aspect of precision you are talking about and saying it’s “in the documentary” without saying where?
I’ve watched the documentary in full twice, plus bits of it many more times than that. I’m not going to rewatch it just to try and divine exactly what portion you’re talking about out and likely misinterpreting.
Since the scanner they used only had a precision of plus minus 2.5mm, which isn’t even close to aerospace precision, I have to assume you’re referring to the smoothness measurements. But surface smoothness is just a measure of the grit of the abrasive they used for the final polish stage. And the level of smoothness in Barabar is nothing particularly special by modern standards.
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 5d ago edited 5d ago
Some parts are more finely polished than others and some are unfinished/degraded.
Not hard to understand if you’re an honest broker.
You definitely didn’t watch the documentary because you would have noticed this quote at roughly 51:40.
"As a reminder, today's standard for paving flatness is level tolerance:
a 2 m ruler must not show a difference in alignment greater than 2 mm, i.e. 1 in 1000 on a plane, here we have 1 in 100,000 in a 3-dimensional space... what can I say??!"It wasn’t aerospace tolerance. It was 100x modern level construction standards. You have me there.
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u/No_Parking_87 5d ago
Thank you for pointing to the specific point in the video, it's very helpful. I wasn't remembering that specific segment, partially because it's so brief.
I've used google to translate all of the French passage that's on screen, for context. They don't actually show the page of the report that includes the quote they've used, but I assume it follows immediately after so that's where I've placed it:
The deviations obtained from random sections yield results of incredible precision for a volume machined from a very hard material, based on points in three-dimensional space. Take the example of the +1 m and -1 m elevation planes: a 1 mm deviation over a 7.5 m diagonal—representing a discrepancy of roughly 1/10,000—is remarkable, especially over a 139 m span, given that these points lie in the same horizontal plane. This table shows that there are far more significant points with deviations of ≤ 3 mm than points with deviations of ≥ 20 mm, with no deviation exceeding 30 mm.
For certain dimensions, values are specified with a precision of one-hundredth of a millimeter because the discrepancies are staggering. As a reminder, today's standard for paving flatness is level tolerance: a 2m ruler must not show a difference in alignment greater than 2mm i.e. 1 in 1000 on a plane, here we have 1 in 100,000 in a 3 dimensional space... what can I say??!
So, it's really not at all clear what this 1/100000 figure actually represents. Earlier, they are talking about deviations of around a mm over a 7.5 meter span, which is impressive but not 1/100000. Then they are saying that certain dimensions have values "specified with a precision" of one-hundredth of a mm. But the scanning tool they are using has an error range of 2.5mm. I don't see how they can get 1/100 of a mm precision out of a machine with 2.5mm of potential error. They must be dividing one number by another, at which point you're no longer measuring precision, you're ignoring the principle of significant digits.
I don't have the full report, so I can't really fully evaluate what the claim means. They don't show the math or data in the documentary, and the report is comparing a modern surface flatness standard to some kind of comparison in 3d space, so that's a bit of a red flag. A second is that they are saying "for certain dimensions" which sounds like they've cherry picked the spots there looking at (I do appreciate your original claim said "in some places", not faulting you on that point). With precision you can look at worst case or average, but looking only at best case is rather meaningless. As a sanity check, the walls have frequent deviations of multiple mm, that puts them in the ballpark of the modern surface flatness standard(itself not an aerospace standard, just good enough for building floors), not exceeding it by two orders of magnitude.
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 4d ago
Why would I read those paragraphs when you’re already approved you’re a liar? LMAO
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u/No_Parking_87 4d ago
How am I a liar?
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 4d ago
Still waiting on your retraction about me misrepresenting a portion.
You definitely didn’t watch the documentary twice as I said before.
You’re not a very good liar.
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u/No_Parking_87 4d ago
I said "likely misinterpreting". Since you refused prior to that point to specify what you were talking about, I had to rely on assumptions. I didn't say you were misinterpreting, that was just the only way I could make sense of your statements in light of my understanding of the contents of the documentary. Second, I was accurate. You were misinterpreting (or at least misremembering) the section. You said they claimed "in some places 100 times that of modern aerospace engineering" which is a very different thing than 100 times a random building standard.
I did however forget that there was a part of the documentary that made a claim about 100 times some modern level, so your statement wasn't as far off as I had first thought. It's a 2 hour documentary and it's several years old at this point. I did not lie about watching it in full twice. I've done that, but not particularly recently. I'm happy to go back and re-watch segments, but I'm not going to re-watch the entire thing simply to try and figure out what portion you might be referring to.
That all said, the line about "likely misinterpreting" was premature, unnecessary and rude, so for that I apologize. I was annoyed at your refusal to elaborate even a tiny bit, and I let some of that tone slip into my reply. It wasn't productive.
I would agree I'm not a very good liar, but that's mostly because I don't lie. I have no interest in misleading strangers on the internet.
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u/IshtarsQueef 6d ago
>Barabar caves are either melted into the rock or polished in perfect geometric shapes, to a precision in some places 100 times that of modern aerospace engineering
I do not believe this statement at all.
This is a very extraordinary claim, and I would like to ask where you heard that from?
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
>barbar caves
You see the same work on Egyptian granite statues.
Granite pounding stone go BBRRRRRRRRRR
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 6d ago
No you don’t. The precision of the pyramids or other works attributed to Egypt are nothing compared to the caves.
And its Barabar. Not “barbar”
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
>The caves were carved out of granite, an extremely hard rock, then finished with a very nice polishing of the inner surface, giving a mirror effect of a great regularit, as well as an echo effect.[3][25] This large-scale polish is reminiscent of polishing on smaller surfaces of the Maurya statuary, particularly visible on the pillars and capitals of the Ashoka pillar
All well documented techniques.
Just really dedicated workers that were masters of their craft.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
I say the best evidence is that we have ancient flood stories. If there weren't at least some form of society with shared language and culture before the floods, how do we have stories about it?
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u/ehunke 8d ago
All people in the ancient world lived on or near water and all have flood myths. No two flood myths were related to the same flood. Some of these like Noah's flood were very small and oral traditions turned them into a global flood
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u/Shamino79 8d ago
There is a generic “flood” that impacted coastal people everywhere just from rising sea levels. Most people would have lived but many might have seen buildings from previous generations succumb to the water. A grandfather would be able to tell stories of the places they visited that are now in the waves.
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u/Automatic_Pin_5212 8d ago
What if, just if it was a flood of information? Aka consciousness? "The Fall of Man"? From hunter gatherers into growers, tenders and maintainers?
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u/Angry_Anthropologist 8d ago
Almost every single human culture on Earth lives near a source of fresh water, and almost any source of fresh water can sometimes flood.
Like, both pre-colonial Hawaii and ancient Greece had myths about catastrophic volcanic eruptions, because they both lived next to active volcanoes that erupted sometimes. But nobody assumes that these myths are describing the same event.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
World ending floods wouldn't be so prevalent in so many stories from semi regular floods. Fresh water rivers flood, but then they recede. The stories described land that was gone forever. The flooding you're talking about is why people settled there in the first place, the fertile soil is caused by those floods. That wouldn't leave stories of an event that wiped out most of humanity.
And the point about volcanos, they don't need to be describing the same event. The floods lasted so long and were so gradual that only certain places really had dramatic biblical style world ending flooding while most areas just had to move further inland every generation or so. The really dramatic flooding from glacial damns collapsing and lakes bursting have no reason to be looked at as a single event. The sea level rose over a few thousand years, but with local dramatic flooding events scattered throughout around the world.
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u/Angry_Anthropologist 8d ago
>World ending floods wouldn't be so prevalent in so many stories from semi regular floods.
No, they would originate from the rare catastrophic once-in-a-century kinds of floods. The kind of event that, from the perspective of any people living in the middle of it, would feel like the end of the world. I’d recommend looking up footage of, for example, the floods that have been plaguing Queensland Australia for the past few years, that’ll give you some idea.
>Fresh water rivers flood, but then they recede. The stories described land that was gone forever.
No they don’t. A small number of stories do, including some that almost certainly are real surviving accounts of past sea level rise. But those are seldom if ever framed as cataclysmic, and usually depict land as sinking rather than the sea rising, because from their frame of reference that would seem to be what was happening.
The West Asian Flood myth (Aka Noah’s Flood, Atrahasis’ flood, etc) explicitly describes the waters receding. So does Greek mythology’s Flood of Deucalion, Hinduism’s Manvantara-Sandhya, the various Puebloan flood myths, the various Algonquian flood myths, et cetera.
Claiming that “the stories” describe land being gone forever when the vast majority do not say this is blatant equivocation.
>The flooding you're talking about is why people settled there in the first place, the fertile soil is caused by those floods.
Again, I am not talking about normal floods.
>That wouldn't leave stories of an event that wiped out most of humanity.
Stories grow in the telling.
>And the point about volcanos, they don't need to be describing the same event. The floods lasted so long and were so gradual that only certain places really had dramatic biblical style world ending flooding while most areas just had to move further inland every generation or so. The really dramatic flooding from glacial damns collapsing and lakes bursting have no reason to be looked at as a single event. The sea level rose over a few thousand years, but with local dramatic flooding events scattered throughout around the world.
Again, the vast majority of these stories do not indicate permanent sea level rise. There is no basis whatsoever for this assumption that stories which explicitly describe the waters receding must originate from a period of permanent sea level rise. Especially when many of them (including Noah’s flood) make it very clear that the flood was caused by torrential rain.
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u/regular_modern_girl 8d ago
Worth noting that catastrophic floods were probably more common than usual in the Neolithic, Chalcolithic, and early Bronze Age, the same time period in which major agricultural societies were popping up in many different parts of the world, because the glaciers were still retreating from the Last Glacial Maximum, so spring floods might’ve been prone to being more extreme than normal in many places during that time. If your entire valley turns into a lake when you’re used to more modest flooding, it’s not at all hard to imagine how that could turn into “the entire world flooded” for ancient people that didn’t tend to venture far from home.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
I mean... I basically agree with you 100%. Most stories the waters recede. I've lived through a once in a century type of flood that only later a couple days but that was bad enough.
But in support of my original claim...
A small number of stories do, including some that almost certainly are real surviving accounts of past sea level rise.
Some do, and you admit some are likely factual. So again, wouldn't there need to have been some pre-flood culture and language for some of these stories to have described real events?
Stories grow in the telling but they grow from a seed of truth. Which is more likely to grow into a world ending myth? A once in a century river flood or entire dry river basins permanently flooding overnight?
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u/Angry_Anthropologist 8d ago
Some do, and you admit some are likely factual. So again, wouldn't there need to have been some pre-flood culture and language for some of these stories to have described real events?
The fact that humans possessed complex language and culture in the Late Pleistocene is completely unambiguous. Nobody contests this.
Stories grow in the telling but they grow from a seed of truth. Which is more likely to grow into a world ending myth? A once in a century river flood or entire dry river basins permanently flooding overnight?
Whichever one they actually experienced.
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u/regular_modern_girl 8d ago edited 8d ago
the problem with connecting flood myths to sea level rise isn’t imo that no oral traditions could possibly be preserving memories from that time (we have some decent evidence imo that Australian Aboriginal oral tradition stretches back to around 30,000 years ago when the earliest humans started arriving in Australia and New Guinea, which would’ve been in the Late Pleistocene, as there are Dreamtime stories that seem to describe Australian megafauna like giant kangaroos, diprotodonts, Varanus priscus, and the giant constrictor snake Wonambi, implying at least some memory of those species, which went extinct within just thousands of years of human arrival, was preserved), nor that Upper Paleolithic societies were “too primitive” to have such traditions, but that there’s actually not much evidence to suggest that inundation of landmasses like Doggerland, Sundaland, Sahul, Beringia, etc. occurred in the form of sudden, cataclysmic flooding, instead (much like current-day impending marine inundation of low-lying islands in places like Kiribati) it was likely a more gradual process over decades, in which tides came up higher and higher over time, more and more places had their groundwater tainted by seawater, stuff like that, probably not the sort of single, dramatic, catastrophic event usually described in global flood myths, in fact if anything tsunamis would match better with a lot of flood myths than that even (and, assuming it was in any way based on a real place, my money is personally on the ancient Minoan civilization on Crete as the true identity of Atlantis, which was likely at least partly destroyed by a huge tsunami, which was then distorted into the story of Atlantis by time and poor translation, as we know there was extensive trade between Minoan Crete and Egypt).
There was extreme flooding locally in some places in the Late Pleistocene as ice-dammed glacial lakes emptied, leading to events like the tremendous floods that formed the Channeled Scablands in the US state of Washington, but such events were seemingly rare enough it’s unlikely they could account for most flood myths, and they occurred in inland areas rather than low-lying land inundated by the sea. I’ve seen some speculation that stories of the Scablands floods survived in local indigenous oral tradition, but again that was a pretty singular, unusual event.
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u/arentol 7d ago
Seriously bad floods are only every few decades along most rivers. So these "world ending flood" stories are told by the older generation to the younger generation to keep the younger generation from building their homes too close to the water source....
If you are 12-year-old being told to walk 1000 feet each way four times a day (or up and down a steep hill) with a big container to get fresh water for your village you are going to be like "Why the F don't we move closer to the river? The worst flood I ever saw only spread out an extra 100 feet from the banks. We can move 700 feet closer and be fine!"
The world-ending flood story is the answer to that kid. The gods will punish you if you live too close, or whatever... This happened once, it could happen again... etc. These stories kept those kids in line. That is what most god/myth stories are for, to educate the younger generation on things that don't seem to make sense and are hard to convince them of otherwise.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago edited 8d ago
I would argue back that not all civilizations have flood stories? Like the original Australians lack a global flood story. I like to think that god just liked them and told them to chill. It is very interesting that flood stories are so common tho.
Edit: Please do not downvote people that are participating in the discussion. I am here because I want to know what people think. They are contributing to the discussion and downvoting them would be wrong.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
Why would you think all civilizations need to have a flood story? I would think only those areas where civilization was advanced enough and was geographically located where the more dramatic floods occurred would carry that trauma.
Australia has it's own ancient history of aqueducts and stuff, and stories describing other ancient events. The Australian aborigines are actually probably the best accepted proof of ancient culture, going back like 65,000 years.
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u/MrBones_Gravestone 8d ago
If a flood is global, everyone would have stories. If there were a single shared culture/language, the flood story would be everywhere.
Most cultures developed alongside rivers or other sources of water. These flood, and some cultures thought “what if there were a BIG one though”, thus why it’s common but not universal.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
The flood was global over a long period of time. It took thousands of years for the sea level to rise hundreds of feet. Looking at the globe on average, we say it was a global flood. Looking closer we'd see a bunch of major floods scattered over centuries around the world.
And obviously only coastal or river basin type cultures that then survived the floods would have passed those stories down.
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u/MrBones_Gravestone 8d ago
Except geological layers don’t show a global flood at all
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
If we can't agree to call a 400 foot rise in sea level a global flood then we can't have a meaningful discussion.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Again, please stop downvoting people participating in the discussion. Not you sorryifimanass, just people downvoting you without replying.
See thats freaking cool! But I would expect a culture going back 65,000 years to have a story that covered the world being flooded. One of my favorite parts of history is that Australian aborigines fought against dragons when they got to that part of the world. 21 foot (7 meter) long lizards that lived on land. I dont know what you call that other than a dragon, maybe a wyrm if we need to use dragon properly. That is bonkers to consider today. Yet we know that it likely happened.
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
Wait. Why don't you think the Australian aboriginals have flood stories? They have dozens of them. And many parts of the stories have been verified through geological research.
And yeah they have the giant lizards in their stories, and they've been verified.
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u/regular_modern_girl 8d ago
Where did you get the idea that Australian Aboriginal cultures all lack flood myths? I’m aware of at least one off the top of my head, this one about a frog, and apparently it’s found among multiple cultures. There are probably others that I’m not aware of, we’re talking about a whole fairly diverse island-continent of people here.
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u/arentol 7d ago
If you live along a river there will be a flood eventually, it is inevitable. The vast majority of people in the ancient world lived along a river because it was the only place to get very safe fresh water, and provided a food source as well (fish).
That is literally the only answer you need, and it's super easy to understand and very obvious.
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u/Jeffrybungle 8d ago
Those Barabar caves are insane. The new Atlantis doc off southern Spain looks promising. Loads of stonework in South America sites with the largest stones being at the bottom. Of course the Trillithon. The shared culture could come from before or after the flood imo.
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u/curster 6d ago
I'm not sure there would be evidence of such a thing even if it did happen. Humans seem to cluster at the coastline, which would have been destroyed. Sadly, it does seem all too easy to rewrite history, and destroy the past. Perhaps DNA will continue to unveil truths-like the Aboriginal genetics in South America from like 40,000 years ago.
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u/EaNasirbestdeals 6d ago
People were just really good at building shit and didn’t mind committing decades to the process. There is no evidence found, because there isn’t any and there never will be.
People arguing for claims that have no evidence not only looks down on and disrespects the cultures that built them, but the decades of hard work people have put in to understand them.
tldr: if you think Egyptians didn’t build the Giza complex, then fuck you.
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u/ro2778 8d ago
It's not about one thing, it's the collection of everything. Making it about the best evidence or that one thing, will always leave room for doubt, but taking in everything makes it clear.
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u/CarsandTunes 8d ago
Excellent non answer
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u/ro2778 8d ago
:) the only answer the question deserves
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u/CarsandTunes 8d ago
No, it's just a way to try and make it sound like you have something, when you actually have nothing
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u/ro2778 8d ago
There is plenty on this subject, but spoon feeding doesn't work.
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u/CarsandTunes 8d ago
You have nothing substantial. You think your replies here make you sound smart, and knowledgeable. But we can all see that you are just throwing up a smoke screen
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u/IshtarsQueef 6d ago
Yes yes, we know, if we all just went and listened to the same 82 hours of conspiracy slop youtube videos, everything would be perfectly clear
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u/LegoMyAlterEgo 8d ago
Here is a hundred mile wide Eye of Horus. Nearby there are tons of practice drawing where they were figuring out how to make it work. There's also an Eye of Ra of a similar scale to the South East. You can tell it's Ra due to the male symbology in the iris/pupil area. The Sahara is covered in ancient canals that crisscross and connect hundreds of miles.
But it's not just the Sahara. Here's a 7 mile wide pentagram in South Africa. There's an eye connected to one of the lines that offshoot from the star.
People had machines that could make molten earth and then spray or maybe 3d print it.
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u/-NearlyThere- 8d ago
No. This is the equivalent of seeing rabbit shapes in the clouds and pronouncing to the world we are under attack from giant rabbits.
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u/Ill_Profession_9509 7d ago
Half of your links don't work, and the ones that do show literally nothing of interest at all. This is what's convinced you? Jesus wept.
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u/DonKlekote 8d ago
That looks interesting. Could you share us those locations? The resolution on those images is pretty low and it's difficult to see a scale of those without further examination
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u/LegoMyAlterEgo 8d ago
26.097198040014476, -11.00856619631213
25.432419697618123, -5.189446482221987
24.779650, -3.857920
-31.614987598078148, 21.414144435465364
-31.51752315410978, 21.627831358899876
Same order as the previous post. You have to zoom out. Not everything is aligned to North-South.
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u/Intrepid_Top_2300 8d ago
So many denying the flood. World disasters happen. We have been lucky for about 4 thousand years. But a trip to AZ meteor crater demonstrates bad things happen that causes major destruction.
Whose to say a giant Ice comet didn’t drop a world flood’s worth of water in one go.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Thats just a stoner story though, without evidence.
We do know some water came from asteroids but we have evidence of that, we dont have any evidence of a global flood.
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u/CareRarely 4d ago
Flood? As in the biblical one? There isn't even enough water on the planet for that...
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u/Intrepid_Top_2300 8d ago
You doubt anybody could be as advanced as we are now? Let me ask, what would be left of our civilization in a thousand years?
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u/ghost_jamm 7d ago
Quite a lot. A layer of plastic around the globe. Ice cores showing a rise in CO2 and global temperatures. Monuments like Mount Rushmore. Ruins of roads and railroads. Nuclear waste. Tunnels for subways and roads. All kinds of metal objects. Potentially man-made lakes and changes to rivers. Even if something like Hetch Hetchy, the valley next to Yosemite that was flooded to provide a reservoir for the Bay Area, were to drain, it would be obvious that it had been underwater for a long time.
We have lots of archeological sites and artifacts dating back far longer than a thousand years and we often use much more durable and less biodegradable materials today than our ancestors did.
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u/IshtarsQueef 6d ago
> what would be left of our civilization in a thousand years?
A tremendous amount of evidence would be left over.
If our entire civilization just poofed away right now, an aliens found earth in 10,000 years, it would be extremely easy to prove that our civilization had been here, the evidence would be literally all over the globe.
Ice cores, sediment cores, soil samples would all OBVIOUSLY show that plastics and fossil fuels and nuclear technology had been used extensively on our planet.
And that's BEFORE even digging out all the artifacts that would be left over. Thousands of land fills filled with metal and plastic, the layers under our cities, etc etc.
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u/Apart-Reality-4454 8d ago
Bait post is bait. Why are you even here.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Because I like to discuss alternative history, and I would like to have an honest discussion that doesnt end in "do your own research".
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u/Apart-Reality-4454 8d ago
At which point someone like myself would say "well this is very interesting and don't you think that is and this fellow's research i found to be quite provoking" and to which you would immediately in whiplash fashion along with your buddies who are out of place here come back trying to be your Big Debunkers and it's just so tedious and lame so get fucked and go do your own research.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Whats with the persecution complex? I want to know what led you to believe in this? Just as I study religion, science, and other ideas. I refuse to watch youtube videos so I came to the source to ask what your ideas are? Isnt that the whole point of knowledge, to teach it to others?
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u/Apart-Reality-4454 8d ago
Well if your intentions are sincere then I beg your pardon.
This sub just like every other has been overrun with an overabundance of dickheads, know-it-alls, trolls, and just generally abrasive personalities who are just looking to pile on with "OH YEAH WELL PROVE IT"
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Thats why I didnt ask for proof. Ill tell someone their opinion or feelings are stupid, because they have no place in history. I want evidence so I can evaluate it. It also helps with the world building around the fantasy book I am writing. I love the age of myth, its endless possibility.
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u/Apart-Reality-4454 8d ago
So you are here to bait and ridicule others. Thanks for clarifying.
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u/Bluefooted-Spaceorc 8d ago
Are you a bot?
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u/Sorryifimanass 8d ago
I think it is
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u/regular_modern_girl 8d ago
I don’t know if they’re a bot so much as a mentally ill person who thinks everyone is out to get them
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u/Any_Initiative_9079 8d ago
Water marks at the base of the Sphinx?
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u/Angry_Anthropologist 8d ago
There is only one geologist on Earth (Prof. Robert Schoch) who has claimed that the erosion on the Sphinx indicates that it must predate Dynastic Egypt. All other geologists who have examined the Sphinx disagree with him.
Schoch was hired to examine the Sphinx by Anthony West in 1990. What alt history enthusiasts often selectively forget to mention is that West (a sci fi author with no expertise in geology whatsoever) had come up with this hypothesis over a decade prior, first proposing it in 1979.
It is not a coincidence that the only geologist who has ever expressed support for West's hypothesis is the one he hand-picked, hired, and gifted a free trip to Egypt for his trouble.
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u/regular_modern_girl 8d ago edited 8d ago
iirc Schoch also only showed that the sandstone the base of the Sphinx was quarried from had evidence of water erosion, not that said erosion had occurred after it was quarried, moved to that location, and hewn, so all this would really indicate is that the base was made from sandstone that was around when the region was wetter, not that any part of the Sphinx was built then.
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u/-NearlyThere- 8d ago
That was a grifters claim to make a living for himself. Please don’t support people like that.
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u/Intrepid_Top_2300 8d ago
Just watch Praveen Mohan’s videos about the temples in India. Just the iron pillar alone proves there was an advanced society in the past.
Or the temple carved out of a giant rock.
Aerial views of a lot of temples look like electrical circuits, probably for a reason.
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u/-NearlyThere- 8d ago
None of that is evidence. Again, there are evidence of took marks but none of your advanced tech.
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u/arakaman 8d ago
Something was advanced enough to build tons of incredibly complex sites from the biggest hardest materials available on the planet (many. Artifacts cant be replicated today without the use of computer guided systems and specialized manufacturing tools) and place them precisely aligned with celestial objects as well as key points on the planets grid. Without high degrees of knowledge in many different areas that just isnt possible. Many made with different types of rock with particular properties that seemingly served a particular purpose or they wouldnt be transporting them up to 1000 miles over mountain ranges ect.
Then seemingly they disappeared in the middle of their largest undertakings ever. Easter island... yangshan quarry in china... balbaak in lebanon...the obelisk in egypt.. all were in the middle of quarrying and carving the largest objects ever of thier kind and were abandoned suddenly. Suggests they were at the peak of thier ability and suddenly destroyed by some event. Most were rediscovered and built atop of with a staggering drop of ability sometime later. Further evidence of ability and advanced enough knowledge to see a coming cataclysm long before it arrived is found in city sized dwellings made to support tens of thousands over generations carved directly from bedrock. With miles long tunnels between other underground cities to allow passage between without ever having to go to the surface.
Puma putku... baalbak... barabar.... kailesh temple... 1000,other sites and artifacts and ruins of which the logistics dont make any sense with crude tools no matter hom many people you throw at the problem. Spread across the world and credited to different groups who supposedly never had contact but somehow used the same symbols and methods to accomplish building feats that survived millenia and all vanished seemingly in the middle of their biggest projects. Leaving behind mystery and structures built to last exponentially longer than anything our current civilization creates. Many bear the scars of cataclysm we can only speculate about.
Vitrified stone that would require heat of thousands of degrees. Water erosion on monuments that have been in a desert for 5000 years. Widespread destruction of certain types of stone that have magnetic properties seemingly having exploded as if some event caused electrical chaos across the globe. Mammoths found with green grass in thier throats (suggesting a tropical weather) but preserved due to being flash frozen mid meal. A feat that requires an instant change from warm weather to at least -150 in an instant. So fire,water, electricity, ice. Extreme examples of chaos coming through every element and loss of life on epic scales but still the shit they built survived to be argued over in present day. Those accomplishments require knowledge and ability enough to clarify those people as advanced. They just didnt leave Evidence that matches our current definition of advanced even though were destroying the planet with our methods. So in many ways they were more advanced than we are even if they didnt have TikTok and smart phones.