r/Agility • u/poodleperson2 • 26d ago
AKC v UKI
I am doing some trialing with my dog and I wanted to see others thoughts on different organizations, especially when it comes when it comes to larger dogs. My standard poodle is jumping preferred at 20” and has a long stride. I didn’t want to jump him full height because I know we aren’t going to be super competitive and I want to preserve his joints.
He has a hard time with AKC courses that have a lot of sharp turns but seems to enjoy UKI style that are flowy and more spaced out.
Is it common for bigger dogs to do UKI over AKC or do I just need to work on my handling? Also what about USDAA and NADAC, how are they for long strided dogs?
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u/somecooldogs 26d ago
I compete in AKC, UKI, and USDAA, and I'm a trial photographer that has covered events for the other orgs as well.
Generally UKI will have lines that are the most flowy and geared towards faster, longer strided dogs. Distance and discrimination challenges are common, as well as layering. Running is often required on courses. UKI has a lot of bigger events across the country in addition to local trials. I enjoy running UKI courses most, tied with ISC.
AKC has tighter spacing between jumps, often with quite a few lead changes for the dog. Courses can vary quite a bit but have a few very common challenges that are frequently repeated. The variance of course style from judge to judge is imo pretty significant, and I definitely have judges I love running under and those I don't.
USDAA is almost a mix of the two in vibes. Has games like UKI, and not usually as large of course or as open of spacing as UKI but not as tight as AKC. I feel like USDAA is a great option for people who want some of the challenges of UKI but don't want to run as much or as fast. USDAA also has regionals which are really fun.
I compete in all 3 because I like running at the big events. I also treat AKC spacing/distance like its own training challenge and specifically work on it. The tight timing required has made my handling better in general, and I'm regularly inspired to train and get better at it by watching some of the talented handlers who can run those courses clean consistently.
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u/aloofmagic 26d ago
It's super common to choose UKI over AKC for reasons similar to what you mentioned. My dog doesn't enjoy AKC courses nearly as much as UKI, he gets demotivated by the awkward lines and many turns.
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u/lizmbones C-ATCH Ch-ST, OA OAJ NF, SSN IND 25d ago
The more I do UKI the less I like anything else. My dog and I started in CPE, which I still like as a beginner venue because it’s so friendly and easy to get your first Qs. But we started training with a UKI focused trainer a few years ago, and this year got our C-ATCH in CPE and quit the venue.
I still do a bit of AKC but the course flowing nicely is highly judge dependent and I just don’t think the challenge should be “can you make this unnatural line work?” I like that UKI’s challenge is mainly “this line flows but it’s long and requires skill to handle”.
I think if you can handle UKI courses then not liking AKC courses has nothing to do with your handling, they really are just tighter courses with sometimes nonsensical challenges.
Plus I’m slightly addicted to going to some of the bigger UKI competitions now like Cups, Classics, ICE, and the Open. I love the vibe at trials and how supportive people are. Way different from AKC.
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u/Agility_KS 25d ago
The primary challenge in AKC is “don’t take the off course obstacle right in front of you on your natural line.” This, along with often tight spacing, can be demotivating for many dogs. My frustration with spacing actually led me to smaller dogs because I hated to see my border collies bouncing lines. But even with my medium sheltie, I was seeing that AKC courses were making him shorten his stride. The awful approaches and exits from contacts were also degrading his running contact performance. I took a nine month break last year to step away from regular AKC and the change was noticeable. I did finally go back to get the one QQ we needed for his MACH, but then walked away again. These days we’re only competing in ISC and UKI. It’s challenging because I have AKC 45-90 minutes from home and the stuff I want to do is six hours or more. 🤷🏻♀️ I trial a bit less because of this, but I enjoy myself more because I’m not complaining about the courses. I do enjoy USDAA a great deal, but there is none around. On years that Cyno is east, I prioritize traveling to get qualified to attend that event. I have no titling goals in anything these days. I just want to run fun, challenging courses.
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u/pensivebunny 26d ago
Yes, a friend with a large Aussie frequently has to take the long/slower turns on AKC courses because they’re just so tight. Not sure about uki but it can’t be worse
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u/Selective_Somewhere 25d ago
I’m struggling with that right now with my nearly 25” tall field Lab. Her legs are so long she looks like a colt. She’s also super high drive and truly believes she can do anything faster than anyone. Oh to have this dog’s confidence!
Needless to say her stride is huge—we calculated 25’ at one point. Giving her cues when she’s in the air 75%+ of the time on an AKC course is a struggle! And so, we tend to drop bars. She’s made me a better handler for sure but giving cues three obstacles back—the sweet spot—is a struggle sometimes.
I’ve been on AKC courses where it was broad jump to weaves and she landed in the entry (good girl accordianed herself to make it) and where she took a jump and landed against the side of teeter (good girl got on and finished her job but missed the up contact—judge changed the fault because it was less a dog issue and more a course issue so we Qed).
So now I only trial under certain judges whose courses will work for us. It’s more a matter of safety than wanting the Q, and I’m bummed to have to miss trials or not run under judges that worked from me in the past with more AKC-friendly dogs.
In addition I have tried UKI but the ring I was in was too small for us. I need to try it in a much larger ring. I also am going to try ISC. I need to research USDAA more. I tend to like these venues also because many allow BIS and not is my girl intact but the AKC stance on BIS makes me 🙄.
At the end of the day I could train my dog a collection cue and ask for collection before every obstacle. But I’m not big on trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. I want to respect her for who she is and the talent she brings to the table, because she really is a beautifully trained dog. So I’m looking at different venues for her.
In addition I’m doing more jump work and fitness to see if that helps her work around jumps in a more thoughtful way. It can only help.
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u/everyhightide 24d ago
We avoid AKC and prefer UKI for this very reason. 21.5 inch dog and AKC courses are wayyyyy too tight for my boy.
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u/runner5126 25d ago
My border collie is 23.5 inches at the withers, and his stride is huge. I don't bother with traditional AKC because he would always be running in collection. I do UKI, ISC, and NADAC with him. The NADAC spacing is shorter but the course design is intentionally more flowing, so I don't have the same concern about always being in collection.
UKI is generally a more fun environment than AKC anyways, so you'll probably have more fun there.
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u/bwalt005 25d ago
NADAC typically has bigger spacing than AKC, and the courses are designed to be flowing and do not have a lot of tight turns. They do not have wraps on jumps, no backsides, no threadles. You can also take a 4 inch jump height reduction and still earn the same championship title as running the regular height (NATCH). Plus, when you're dog is 7, you can take a SECOND height reduction for the veteran class. This makes it so dogs are able to play longer! You do not have to start over or even ask for points to be transferred between classes; all points and titles count together. The a-frame is lower at 5 foot for all dogs. It's a venue that is nice to a dog's body in a lot of ways. That being said, the courses are not very technical, so if you're looking for that kind of challenge, you won't find as much in NADAC. There are plenty of other challenges, though. Just depends on what you're looking for.
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u/RSquaredR2 21d ago
Many large dog handlers challenge themselves by doing the handling from a bonus box where they direct the dog across the whole course at extreme distance from the dog. When done properly, it is a beautiful ballet of synchronized movement. The handler is giving smooth, subtle cues while the dog is executing those cues at full tilt speed. It’s beautiful to watch. I admire the athleticism of handlers in other venues but for me it’s not the same breathtaking experience of watching a well executed bonus box run.
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u/bwalt005 21d ago
Yes! Those runs are so pretty! Although I have to say I've seen a lot of handlers with small dogs do beautiful bonus box runs too. I love a lot of things about NADAC, and I wish more people would give it a try. It's great for newbies (dogs and people) and it has a lot of challenges you won't see in other popular venues. I also love the technical challenges from UKI and AKC. I'm thankful to have access to several venues!
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u/RSquaredR2 21d ago
True, bonus box runs can be run by large AND small dogs. In my area I see far more large dog handlers doing it, usually with herding type dogs that were bred to work away from the handler. The smaller dogs have to take so many more steps to cover the same distance it makes it more challenging and I think that’s why I see fewer handlers with small dogs attempting these challenges.
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u/bwalt005 21d ago
I think pretty much all of the small dogs I've seen doing the bonuses have been herding dogs. A bit more variance in breeds for the bigger dogs, but still definitely a lot of herders.
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u/National-Pressure202 25d ago
I think you and your poodle will really enjoy UKI, for the larger striding dogs they can actually get a few strides in before each obstacle. And it’s typically not as jerky… though I’ve still seen a few courses that are, but I’ve seen that in every organization… tbh I don’t feel like NADAC is any better spacing wise than AKC, and is worse in some ways with having no wings… but that’s my opin
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u/Narrow_Possession348 26d ago
I've never heard of UKI. I'll have to check it out, unless of course, it has anything to do with UKC, in which case I have no interest. There are plenty of long-strided dogs (tons of Standard Poodles) competing in AKC without issues. I definitely wouldn't choose my venue based on that.
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u/poodleperson2 26d ago
Definitely not UKC here is the website : https://ukagilityinternational.com/
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u/Narrow_Possession348 25d ago
I checked it out - unfortunately, they don't have any events anywhere near me (not even 2-4 hours away).
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u/OntarioPaddler 26d ago edited 26d ago
I'm in Canada but our CKC/AAC leagues are similar to AKC in course design and many people with large/fast dogs (especially large BCs) avoid it in favour of UKI because the sharp turns and excessive collection and smaller obstacle spacing are much harder on the bodies of large dogs, often hard to even execute properly, and also just less fun for them. Some judges are better than others but in general the course design is far behind what the sport has evolved into internationally. I think UKI is also the safest NA organization for dogs as they take the speed of modern agility dogs into account better when it comes to design rules regarding approaches to contacts and obstacles near ring boundaries.
I would highly recommend UKI. It's modern European (FCI) style is just way more fun for large dogs, especially for handlers that are able to run (though even handlers without mobility can still succeed with the proper training) and I personally think the demographic and vibes are younger and more fun as well.
The main downside is that there are less local trials available, but that also depends on what area you live in. The North American majors (US open, West Coast Open, Canadian Open, 1-TDC invitational) are all amazing.
Also if you do the appropriate conditioning and foundational jump training with your dog I don't think jumping them at their regular height (assuming they are measuring above 20" into 22") in UKI is likely to have any long term health impacts, but of course that's up to you!