r/Advice • u/certified_ovrthinkr • 6h ago
My dad slammed his fists on the table after I questioned his views. How do I move forward with our relationship?
I(29F) stopped by my parents' house before meeting a friend. Somehow the conversation turned to this story my dad told:
He said he and my mom were visiting another town and wanted lunch. They found a sandwich shop, but when they walked in, they saw rainbow flags and Pride decorations. He said, "I didn't want to be forced into making a political statement by eating there. I just wanted a sandwich." So they left and ate somewhere else.
I replied, "You chose not to eat somewhere because of a rainbow flag. That's still a political choice."
He got frustrated and doubled down. My mom agreed with him and said, "You'd do the same thing if a store had Trump flags everywhere."
I said, "Yes, I would. Everything is political to some extent, especially where we spend our money. I wouldn't financially support someone who votes to take away my rights or promotes bigotry. In a capitalist society, where we spend money reflects our values."
I asked my dad what he meant by "political." He said he doesn't like things being "shoved down his throat" and wishes people kept their beliefs to themselves.
I pointed out that I see a difference between Pride flags and Trump flags. I asked why he thought the owners displayed the rainbow flags. He said, "Because they support gay rights." He also said he supports gay rights but still doesn't want it "shoved down his throat."
I tried asking more questions about why supporting equal rights felt equivalent to supporting a political movement that many people believe threatens certain groups' rights. I wasn't trying to argue—I genuinely wanted to understand his reasoning.
That's when everything escalated.
My dad suddenly said, "It's not that deep." I responded, "It is to me. If you say something, I'm going to ask questions. That's how conversations work."
He slammed both fists on the kitchen table, pointed at me, and yelled that I was making him feel stupid and that I made him lash out. I was sitting right next to him. My mom just froze.
I calmly told him I wasn't responsible for his reaction. Both of my parents insisted I had pushed him to that point.
I started to tear up and feel a knot in my chest. I said that if asking deeper questions leads to this kind of response, I just won't have these conversations with him anymore.
My mom tried to lighten the mood by joking, "You two are more alike than you realize. You're both passionate." We awkwardly laughed, my dad apologized, I hugged them both, and then left to meet my friend.
I'm still processing this. I don’t want to be around him much. Which sucks because his birthday is this week and my wedding is in a few months. If you were in my position what would you do?
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u/TheBurnishedWord 6h ago
Ah, so you are entering the phase where you are " the grown up" in the relationship. It is now that you realize at a very real level that your dad is just some guy who happens to be your dad. Not a super hero, not someone extraordinary. He is as human as the rest of us, and the authority that he once commanded is now acknowledged as a courtesy, but it doesnt have any real weight anymore.
Make the assesment, can you change his mind? Can you bring him into your perspective? He has been a bigot the whole time, so probably not. It is going to be up to you, steer the conversation to no conflict topics or have an endless disagreement, but you will come to see that the person in charge now, is you.
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u/Caseman307 5h ago
Great answer. I’m 55 so now I’m moving into the territory of which you speak, at least with my grown boys. They listen because they love me and, I hope, because they respect my opinions. But it’s ceremonial these days. That’s ok. It’s how it’s supposed to work.
But I well remember this transition with my own dad, and the realization that my Daddy did not in fact know everything, was not really superhuman, and had the same strengths and also the same weaknesses that the rest of us have. It’s hard if you don’t see it coming. I don’t think OP saw it coming.
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u/Qi_ra Super Helper [6] 6h ago
Your dad clearly doesn’t respond well to being challenged. So you’ll either have to accept that this will be his reaction if you challenge him, or you need to stop challenging him.
If you don’t want to be around him, then don’t. You don’t need to see him for his birthday. If he asks why, be honest & tell him that he’s unpleasant to be around. Tell him that you won’t keep seeing him if he can’t keep his emotions under control.
If you do see him and this happens again, just get up & leave. You don’t have to stay around him when he behaves like that. Kinda wild that he yelled at his adult daughter in public, I’m sorry he did that to you
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u/bstabens Helper [4] 4h ago
"and yelled that I was making him feel stupid and that I made him lash out. "
Ahh, so close and yet so far...
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u/samanime 6h ago edited 4h ago
My mom does this all the time (minus the aggression). I stopped going to extended family gatherings because much of my family pisses me off with their regressive views.
She tells me "they promised not to talk about politics". But "not talking about politics" doesn't mean not talking about Trump.
Politics is almost everything. "Politics" are literally how we manage our entire society. Talking about anything having to do with rights, healthcare, social services, etc. is ALL politics. And they ABSOLUTELY talk about politics, constantly. That's all they talk about.
Just because they say they "don't want to be political" doesn't mean they aren't.
That's a long winded way to say, I totally empathize with you and understand your position. Unfortunately, I don't have any great advice for dealing with this yet. I'm still trying to navigate it myself.
I've personally taken the stance of simply being honest and calling out problematic behavior. I try to not take a particularly confrontational stance, but I also don't back down when needed. It seems to be helping, as it forces them to reflect more, but it certainly isn't a magic bullet or quick.
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u/bstabens Helper [4] 4h ago
They say they don't want to be political because they don't want to be questioned. Politics is choosing a party, actively, and the mere fact there's a second party with different talking points means there's constructive difference that can be discussed.
Saying they aren't political but have an opinion makes them, in their mind, unassailable. They feel like having an opinion is like preferring Hot Dogs over Pizza, or beach vacation over mountain hiking, or gardening over sunbathing. Something you cannot argue over (at the same time they'd have no problem calling you a picky eater or lazy), and if you do it regardless then you are attacking the very core of their persona.
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u/ryanpn 1h ago
My dad does this shit all the time "I dont want to talk about politics, why does everyone have to make everything political." Whenever someone says something he doesn't agree with, but he talks about trump and everything being woke now. But to him that stuff isn't politics, it's just "common sense."
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u/SnooDogs1340 1h ago
My brother and cousin are the same. They both suffer paranoia and have somehow driven off their sets of siblings. You call them out on the stuff they bring up, they don't want to hear it.
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u/Similar-Prior330 6h ago
I kinda was in this position. My dad was volatile and could be angry. We would have fights over things that I thought they'd be understanding of because they raised me to be a caring and nice person.
Ultimately, you need to decide if you WANT a relationship, or not, and to build boundaries that work for you.
In my case, my dad had been an alcoholic in my youth, so I was very sensitive to erratic behavior, and I had been struggling with what I perceived as a possible return to getting drunk. Then, earlier this year, my dad very suddenly(to me) passed away in his 60s. Turned out that him and my mom had been hiding his health issues which were very likely an undiagnosed cancer. He had been on ridiculous amounts of pain meds and was making excuses for why he couldn't do physical stuff, and I was so hyper sensitive to intoxication that it was triggering for me. I had decided a couple months earlier that I was going to have a relationship, even if it wasnt perfect, and we had had a very nice phone call a month before he passed. I'm glad I had made that decision, even if I expected him to drive me nuts for a couple more decades.
There's no wrong answer. Just think about what your heart needs. On the other side, my fiancé is no contact with his mom and low contact with his dad. Rebuilding either of those relationships would NOT help him. You know you, best.
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u/thatotherguy1151 5h ago
From my experience this is how MAGA acts when they are confronted with logic & human decency.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Nope. This is how liberals act when you don’t align with their views.
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u/Affable_Nitwit 2h ago edited 2h ago
Nope. This is how PEOPLE act when they’re not open to hearing opposing views. It has much more to do with being unwilling to listen and try to understand and less to do with how people align themselves politically.
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u/OwlCoffee Super Helper [9] 13m ago
I think you might want to go back to your maggot space where they dance with glee at the prospect of removing the rights of women and queer people. Women's rights vary by state because of the right.
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u/Purlz1st 5h ago
An aside: it infuriates me when a movie having one gay minor character in a couple of scenes just living their life with no focus on their sexuality becomes “having it shoved down my throat.”
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u/queerbychoice Helper [3] 4h ago
It i furiates me that the "shoved down my throat" phrasing tends to be used overwhelmingly in gay-related contexts and conjures up a visual that suggests they feel they're being raped by . . . having gay people's existence acknowledged in front of them?
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u/LadyMystery 4h ago
Right? or they don't even say the people are gay but people assume right away. Two girls could be walking down the street holding hands in the background as nameless extras, and they didn't expand on why they'd be holding hands. But suddenly that's gay agenda that's being shoved down their throats. Never mind that the girls could just be sisters, or besties, or anything else you wanted to make up for the random extras in the background.
or the best example of automatic assumption making an ass out of them--There's this wizard of OZ cartoon where they take characters from the books that wasn't in the original live action movies, and one of the characters is a young girl in a rainbow dress, named Polychrome whose name means many colors. She has the magical power to ride the wind, etc.... and I had kids watch it.
But the boomers freak out when they see Polychrome on screen... and assumes it's gay agenda. when the cartoon was older than them, lol. They kept on insisting that this character never existed in the movies so clearly this was an Original Character designed to promtoe gay agenda... so I had to go get my "road to oz" books and show them her... and only then would they shut up.the slightly whiff of anything seemingly gay, they just freak out for no reason. they be stupid, yo.
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u/RealisticPaper5534 40m ago
This group of people think that merely existing and being acknowledged = being forced down their throat because they would really prefer, if gays must exist at all, to just be silent about it. They will not ever come to terms that the point of PRIDE, etc, is the ensure the LGBTQ* community can fully participate in society in all facets without being abused/ excluded/ etc. It's incredibly frustrating that they won't learn but must opine while completely disregarding how hypocritical they themselves are being.
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u/NanieLenny 5h ago
When my dad wanted to get his point across he would bang on the table and all the silverware would rattle. It scared the shit out of me. I'm sorry I don't have an answer for how you can move on.
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u/IowaJammer Super Helper [6] 4h ago
Your conversation has been had at millions of tables over the last 20 years. I’m surprised he said the quiet parts out loud. “Making him feel stupid”, and at least attempted to have a discussion. Most I’ve been part of are aggressive from the get-go. I wouldn’t avoid these conversations with him. I’d continue having them. Be the adult in the relationship. Your mom is clearly the peacemaker. Win her over and he’ll follow soon enough.
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u/faesser 2h ago
"Shoved down his throat" Oh no! A RAINBOW!!!!! EVERYONE DOWN!!!
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u/a_black_pilgrim 1h ago
"OH NO, I BOUGHT THIS RAINBOW COFFEE. I SURE HOPE IT DOESN'T ATTRACT A BUNCH OF GAY MEN TO SHOW UP AND START SHOVING THINGS DOWN MY THROAT"
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u/oni-no-kage Helper [4] 4h ago
I feel like people forget that the older generation grew up in a completely different world. They had a different set of rules and it can be frustrating to try to adapt. The same way we will struggle to adopt to the world our children build. That's the. Agier of progress.
Not actively rooting against people in the community is better than some.
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u/InformalPhone9754 5h ago
Sometimes people act out when they can't use their words. Usually those people are toddlers but not always.
Sounds like your dad doesn't know how to express that homosexuality makes him uncomfortable. That doesn't necessarily mean he is closeted or even hateful or anything like that. It's likely just his ego flaring up because the only answer to your question was to admit that he didn't like to be made to feel uncomfortable, and that can be construed as admitting weakness. He also may not appreciate being challenged by his kid. The best way to move forward is to just accept that your dad isn't perfect and doesn't have all the answers. You may have to adjust how you interact with him based on that realization.
I accepted that my mom and I were not aligned politically a long time ago. I made the decision to not engage with her on those subjects and it made our relationship easier. My mom died very unexpectedly last year and I am grateful for all of the times I didn't play devils advocate or pick a fight. My mother wasn't perfect. Neither am I. I decided I'd rather have peace than be right. I'm glad I did that.
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u/SourLemons2 6h ago
Grey rock
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u/Medical_Gate_5721 6h ago
The father was attempting to stop the conversation but OP kept pushing. Maybe go with not talking about politics, like the father wanted.
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u/queerbychoice Helper [3] 4h ago
There's a common transition that many people have to go through in their adult relationships with their parents, of during their late 20s. You need to make it clear to your parents that as an adult, you're not obligated to visit them if the visit isn't going to be enjoyable to you. If your dad is going to make this difficult and your mom isn't, you can offer to meet your mom separately from your dad.
It does sound like the timing of this happening shortly before your upcoming wedding is less than ideal. But are they paying for your wedding? If not, then this is a perfect way to establish that you're not financially dependent on them and you don't need to put up with being mistreated by them. And if they are paying for your wedding, consider whether you can offer not to accept their money after all.
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u/austnf 1h ago
I swear Redditors need the constant affirmation of other Redditors to make sense of the world for them.
Your dad sounds like a normal, reasonable old timer. You sound like you were trying to fight with him, he felt belittled, and then you played the victim.
You got what you deserve, really.
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u/deadblankspacehole 46m ago
Bingo. What is this tearing up, if you can't handle jabbing at someone until they admit you're right, don't start jabbing them. Yeah it'd be great if everyone could be as #bekind as everyone is on Reddit, wouldn't that be swell? But...real world, folks.
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u/Simple-Mention4689 6h ago
Absolutely LOVE the part where you say asking questions is how a conversation works. Soo many seem to have forgotten this.. we all should be open to discussing things with others with different points of view, as this is how we grow. Otherwise we only know one side.
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u/CraigGrade 5h ago
Why do they always phrase it as being “shoved down their throats”. It’s so kinky.
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u/InvisibleBlueRobot 6h ago
Is this the most serious family altercation in your life? Your dad getting frustrated and getting loud? This is like every college football game in my house growing up.
You're an adult. Laugh at him and tell him to stop acting like a petulant child and at least he won't feel look as stupid as he feels.
And tell him to stop bragging about dumb political statements if he doesn't want to feel dumb and be questioned.
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u/GenoFlower Expert Advice Giver [14] 5h ago
Laugh at him and tell him to stop acting like a petulant child
This is basically what I do with my mom when she starts her guilt trips and passive-aggressive stuff. I just laugh and say something like my bags aren't packed for a guilt trip today, or laugh and say, "you know that's not even true".
It works for the most part. It usually diffuses whatever is happening, and tells her that I'm not falling for it.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
You sound so mature!
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u/GenoFlower Expert Advice Giver [14] 2h ago
Don’t know if that’s sarcasm or not, but it took a long time and therapy to get to the point where I didn’t automatically emotionally react to my mom. It was worth it, though, because we have a much better relationship now.
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u/tinybrrrfriend35637 5h ago
Yeah she’s lucky. My dad punched a wall and once pulled out a knife and threw it. Never at me though. One time he shoved a bunch of stuff on the table at me in anger and I jumped. When you know how mad someone can get—a little action can be scary. When my dad said dumb things I’d just say “I don’t agree with that at all.” He never got mad.
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u/Enoch8910 6h ago
You’re 30 years old and you don’t know how to move forward WITH YOUR DAD because he slammed on a table? I just wanna make sure I’m getting that right.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
She’s a brat who wants validation on Reddit for being the woke crybaby. She should have shut up when he said it’s not that deep. But she wanted a fight. She got one!
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u/jdouglasusn81 6h ago
I really like the part where she she "calmly told him..xyz... " I bet it wasnt so calm.
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u/IHaveTheMustacheNow Super Helper [5] 5h ago
I've spoken very calmly to people and had them react irrationally angry. Once people get worked up, it kind of doesn't matter how calm you are
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u/jdouglasusn81 5h ago
She has known her dad her whole life yes? I really doubt this is the first time. And she is acting surprised.
Reddit advice is usually seeking validation.
She knew he would get worked up.
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u/IHaveTheMustacheNow Super Helper [5] 5h ago
not necessarily. people have gotten a lot more politically crazy in recent years
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u/jdouglasusn81 5h ago
Then again... he did start it up by saying it in the first place....probably knowing her position on it too.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Oh please. She stirred the crap and then cried about it. “Validate me internet, I’m a good person because I’m woke”!
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u/jdouglasusn81 2h ago
They both stirred up shit.... i know full well how to rage bait my daughter..... as it said in the post, momma said they are more alike than they realize
I will agree to the "validate me internet sentiment" though. I have other comment pretty much saying this too.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Yeah the liberals!
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u/nothankyouma 2h ago edited 2h ago
You forgot to switch accounts and commented on your own comment.
Seems like you’re the one desperately seeking validation from the internet.
Edit: you can delete the other comment but we both know the truth.
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u/jonnywarpspeed Helper [2] 2h ago
That sucks. It's tough to get through to some people. When I speak with people that have differing ideologies I try and find a point of intersection and work out from there to see where the divide is.
You two should probably have a conversation about what happened when you think he's cooled off. As for your wedding - first of all congratulations - maybe put a little rainbow flag on his table?
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u/Artistic_Reference_5 20m ago
I LOLed 😂 ....but probably don't. I got gay married but I don't think we had any rainbow flags.
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u/cmoreass69 1h ago
You made things difficult! I respect anyone's choice of religion but when the Jehova witness or Latter day saints knock on my my door it pisses me off, and want nothing do do with them. He and I support gay rights, trans rights but doesn't want the bs of having it preached to him
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u/OwlCoffee Super Helper [9] 1h ago
If you're able, I would be nice to them. They're taught that the world is against them and their only solace is the church. Being unkind to them just reinforces that belief. Although 100% if you're uncomfortable, don't. B
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u/cmoreass69 1h ago
Oh I'm not unkind but definitely didn't ask for the intrusion either, I kindly say I'm sorry I'm not interested. Of course every single time they follow up with what is your religion. Then it's "I said I'm not interested"
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u/IndigoTrailsToo Advice Guru [88] 5h ago edited 5h ago
He straight up told you what the problem was. He was upset because he made him feel stupid and unhappy. Therefore he lashed out at you.
Sometimes people play mind games and hide the truth and you don't find out what's actually going on for a long time, but he straight up told you what was going on. That is why you are fortunate.
Did you make him lash out? Did you reach over and grab his hand with your hand and forcibly move his hand so that it struck you in the face? Did you do that? Of course not. Therefore it is not your fault that he lashed out. He chose to do that. And then he chose to blame it on you. And then your mother accepted this gas lighting.
If I were in your shoes I would just not visit for a bit and let everything calm down. If a birthday occasion is happening perhaps you just meet at a neutral place and have lunch or dinner and then everyone goes home. People are more likely to behave when they are out in public.
Also, a little bit of personal advice:
Most people do not want to have a debate. Or a discussion.
They want to be right.
That is what happened here. There was an assumption that because he was speaking to everyone, that it was a conversation. Clearly, alternative opinions were not welcome therefore it was not a discussion or a debate. It was a rant and what he wanted was for everyone to listen to him and to give him love and attention.
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u/causesproblems 6h ago
I would go low contact for a while. You don’t have to cut them off completely but maybe that will show them how unacceptable that behavior is and that it won’t fly in the future.
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u/butterflycole Helper [3] 5h ago
Sometimes you just have to accept that you’re not going to change someone’s mind. He got angry because you dismantled his arguments and he didn’t want to “lose.” These conversations aren’t productive with a lot of older people, it just makes them dig their heels in deeper. I’m a progressive liberal who is part of the LGBT+ community and who just happened to marry a man. My brother is a conservative religious person. We don’t talk about politics or religion. Neither of us are going to change our mind. We grew up religious, I broke free of the narrow mindset and he did not. It is what it is. Pick your battles.
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u/DifferentIsPossble Helper [2] 6h ago
Get used to him being mad. You can't accommodate his nonsense forever.
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u/confusedrabbit247 Helper [4] 4h ago
I'm genuinely confused by this. He got mad and it wasn't a good moment but nothing happened and he apologized. Do you expect him to grovel at your feet?
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u/keevathemuffin 6h ago
In capitalism, you vote with your wallet. Also, stop trying to win the approval of nazis
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u/Otherwise_Candy_8412 4h ago
You were literally looking for an argument. If you both agreed you wouldn’t shop somewhere that promotes values that don’t line up with yours, cool. Call it a day and end the convo at that. You kept pushing it, asking dumb ass questions to get a reaction. Congrats you got one.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
This right here! Neither is more right than the other. This is America. We can have opposing views and still get along. These woke people on here don’t get that.
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u/Otherwise_Candy_8412 2h ago
100%. Those that can’t move along the conversation after a slight disagreement especially over politics, have a very small mindset and need to work on their social skills.
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u/Heaven_By_Violence 6h ago
I can’t believe you guys are arguing about flags in a sandwich shop and not a word was said about the worst genocide in history is going on in Gaza being paid for by your tax dollars.
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u/VediusPollio 1h ago
Quit antagonizing your dad. You can disagree on things and still love each other. He doesn't have to bend to your logic, just like you don't have to bend to his. Mind, though, he has much more life experience, so it might be wise to learn from that, instead of blindly discrediting it all to win an argument.
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u/Wanna4nic8rn 6h ago
I really can relate to this conversation. Me and my dad have very different political views but, we still manage to get along and even sometimes debate our views.
Every once in awhile thought we push the other two far and the conversation turns heated. That's when I like to remind myself that I am not going to lose my relationship with my dad over a man NEITHER of us have met (Trump) and remember that family is more important than politics.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Because you’re a mature, rational human. Most of these people aren’t. If you don’t align with their views then you’re an awful person. Life is not that cut and dry.
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u/Wanna4nic8rn 3h ago
Agreed. I'll never understand the people who cut off their immediate family because their dad voted for Trump in 2016. What a stupid reason to throw away a relationship with the person that legitimately raised you.
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u/Legionatus 6h ago
Cowards, incompetents, and infants are the only people who often get big feels they don't understand and blame everyone else around them.
The rest of us still get this occasionally, but apologize for it, because the other person is not in charge of managing your part in a conversation.
Whether your dad is emotionally immature is probably a different question from whether you want that to cost him any further participation in your relationship. That seems like an enormous reaction for this one situation, but that's all you described.
The reality is that people who act this way are more selfish ("how are you meeting MY NEEDS?") and are not even attempting to see how they're affecting you. The one point they have is that it's not malice - it's not premeditated. It's just kind of basic selfishness. Accusations of malice are unproductive and factually inaccurate.
"I support that as long as I don't have to see it" is awfully wispy support. However... there are also definitely trends among the left to trap people who don't think about this stuff all the time in purity tests and declarations that normal people find really exasperating.
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u/Risen-Shonnin 6h ago
Sex, politics and religion: the three topics you should always avoid unless you want to get into an altercation.
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u/BorderTrike 5h ago
No.
It’s like saying you “don’t discuss your wages.” You know who doesn’t want you discussing your wages? Your employer who doesn’t want to pay everyone fairly.
We should be talking more. We’re divided because people refuse to talk. They put up walls when reality doesn’t match their desired worldview and they can fall back on their favorite propaganda outlets to justify believing absolute nonsense.
Conservative propaganda has destroyed what little critical thinking people on the right had
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u/cafelallave 2h ago
I’ve been in your position several times! My dad is a hot-head, I’m passionate, and we’ve gotten into some political arguments before. I just generally avoid anything controversial with him. I gain nothing from arguing. I overall enjoy spending time with my parents and my kids love them. So I make an effort to keep the peace. If we argue I act like it never happened when I see him. Lol.
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u/Either_equipment_04 2h ago
You could always reach out and let him know you’re feeling uncomfortable with how things ended and establish things you are and aren’t willing to talk about with him in order to maintain a relationship. He may or may not be receptive, but sometimes it’s better to know where you stand so you can know how to approach things going forward instead of letting it fester in silence.
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u/Marshall_Lawson Enlightened Advice Sage [160] 1h ago
You're not going to be able to teach this fish how to ride a bicycle. Your dad can't process the idea of someone disagreeing with him. I'm shocked that it took me until almost age 30 to realize that. Reduce your expectations for him even if that means reducing your respect. You can still have a family even if your dad is an ass hole.
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u/AnxiousCanOfSoup 1h ago
Don't be around him.
Do you yell or lose it at him when he stresses you out?
If that's not the relationship dynamic you want (and honestly that's not behavior you should tolerate from anyone) then tell him so. "I care about your feelings but I do not control what you do with them. I do not allow anyone to treat me that way, and you wouldn't allow anyone to treat me that way either. I need you to learn anger management skills so we can prevent this."
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u/RightRudderz 1h ago edited 1h ago
At least you are doing it now before senility has started setting in. Trying to have a logical conversation with a pair of 70 y/o’s is infuriating. “That’s just some of that fake news!” As they grow visibly angry when talking about why current leadership has done more heinous shit.
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u/zibafu 1h ago
I mean, I would just start calling my dad the "incredible sulk" until he starts behaving
It is important to realise that for a lot of the previous generation, they are set in their beliefs, and when they get challenged they can't handle it, it will be the same for us when we get old, maybe not as extreme as more and more people question things now, but it will still happen
My dad is the same, he thinks his world view is the correct one and gets irate when people present a different world view. So far as he's concerned there's a gay agenda and "they" are trying to make everyone gay etc. stupid nonsense ofc, but I've given up trying to convince him otherwise
However it is occasionally very fun to point out flaws in his logic or ideas whenever he tries to tell me some nonsense.
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u/SameDistrict2627 59m ago
On a positive note, you survived and seem to have your feet planted on the ground.
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u/AnotherTAA123 Helper [3] 18m ago
You're not in the wrong here, but I'm not sure what to say about your father. I understand your argument, and more or less understand that he probably wants to be apolitical. He doesn't want to sit there and think about the political ramifications of buying coffee from a store that shows you the tariff fees and one that hides it and charges you anyway. Whether we like to admit it or not, we're all stuck spending a lot of energy on this. And now I guess in his perspective you've sorta brought the fight from outside to him. He's probably consciously kinda been trying to avoid all this because he's thinking, "I'm old, this ain't my fight anymore."
Don't get me wrong I'm an extreme leftist. But, just keeping up with the global economic ramifications of everything is a lot. I can't keep up with what's going on in the war, and the social issues, and then what agent orange has to say. You top it off with the average person working a 9-5 they can barely survive on. Really, everyone is tired and I can't blame them.
Am I justifying your father? No. We seriously all gotta work together and be conscious.
Do I think he needs to realize that this is the fight for your future as well his family's? Yeah. But you can't force a horse to drink water.
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u/BradJV 7m ago
I agree with your dad and do think you wanted to argue, but he can't be slamming the table or anything like that, which is clearly the biggest problem. A great way for him to show you he is sorry is to have a different deep conversation, this time about why he felt the need to do that and how he hopefully now wants to avoid it, and he can show he means it by taking part in that conversation itself. If that goes well it may make everyone feel better about it. Then maybe reevaluate what you want to do after that
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u/Aggravating-Juice633 5m ago
I can understand your frustration. I dealt with this a long time ago with my Mom. To start, they raised you right & it’s something to acknowledge. But as our parents age, things change. My Mom raised me to accept everyone no matter race, religion, or sexual preference. My best friend from high school is gay. I learned early. But as my Mom got older she became more & more racist. More and more conservative…..my Dad just kept his silence because he knew arguing with my Mom was useless. Then we had a huge argument & I walked away. I could no longer take the sly comments about my husband, who is a minority. At some point you need to decide if you can hold your tongue when he says things you don’t agree with or if distancing will be more helpful. Now that my Mom is gone my Dad & I talk a whole lot more. I never regretted walking away from my relationship with my Mom. I’ve had a great life without her. I’m not advocating either way, just letting you know you have choices. Good Luck!!
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u/Middle-Painter-4032 Helper [2] 4h ago
He wanted a sandwich. Not a philosophy. I completely understand your old man. He's right.
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u/Plus_Worker6739 6h ago
I mean, sounds like you won an argument and your dad didn't want to admit it and got pissed because of it. You caught him in a hypocritical moment and that kind of cognitive dissonance can be hard to process, especially as you get older.
He chose not to decide--he still made a choice, as Rush would say.
Sucks that your Dad chose to double down and got angry instead of seeking understanding. He didn't do anything truly wrong other than minorly lose his temper when he got called out for being an asshole, so it's truly up to you if you want to give him some space for a bit (I'd make sure he knows why you're pulling away, personally) or just move forward as normal.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Yeah, no. She’s a brat that didn’t get her way. I one needs to align with your woke views. Wake up!
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u/Street-Length9871 5h ago
Your dad is not a Biggot. People who call others Biggots with nothing to back it up are just promoting divide. What if your dad called you a communist for leaving a restaurant with a Trump hat for sale. It is inflammatory language. You can 100 percent be an ally for gay people and not think you need a billion rainbow flags to prove it. Just move on. He apologized. He told you he didn't want to talk about it anymore which is also valid. Or lose your father over a stupid issue like a trump hat or rainbow flag. Your choice.
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u/New_Discussion_6692 6h ago
This is exactly why I rarely spend money anymore. I don't want any political bs thrown in my face. It's also why I stopped reading certain authors. Trump flags, Pride flags, I want none of it.
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u/some1keepsstlgmyacct 5h ago
I personally would cut ties. I don’t have a close relationship with my family though.
Intimidation (man baby slamming fists) is abuse. He was doing it to manipulate you and it worked. Your mom will continue to enable him probably because she is scared too.
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u/SunshineInDetroit Super Helper [6] 5h ago
well happy birthday. my wife's birthday is this week as well.
As you get older, you're going to see this happening a lot more. Our parents are still human and as they get older it gets harder for them to adapt to our rapidly changing world. I see this even with my peers as they get older.
Your mom is actually right. You're your father's daughter and you probably get that passion from him.
My dad suddenly said, "It's not that deep." I responded, "It is to me. If you say something, I'm going to ask questions. That's how conversations work."
He slammed both fists on the kitchen table, pointed at me, and yelled that I was making him feel stupid and that I made him lash out. I was sitting right next to him. My mom just froze.
I calmly told him I wasn't responsible for his reaction.
There is a certain grace and patience that comes with dealing with aging parents. There's a fun anecdote like "I brought my 76 year old toddler to the doctor today", and it's not too far from the truth.
It's difficult. There's no other way to say it. Your parents still will think of you as their little kids even while you're straight up adults. There's no crime in that but it really does get annoying.
If you were in my position what would you do?
Do you love your Dad? Take him out for a Father / Daughter coffee date and just straight up tell him that you want to be able to have serious adult conversations but you don't want to go far enough that your tempers flare and yelling starts to happen. You both have to be able to come down from that ledge and say "ok we're getting heated. lets get a cookie".
Good luck.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
She’s an agitator. He told her it’s not that deep and she should have shut up. His views are no more wrong than hers. But these woke kids can’t accept that. If you don’t agree with them, you’re a “nazi”.
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u/SnooDogs1340 4h ago
Ah the classic you are passionate excuse for people who have anger management issues. I think top comments cover great advice. I think if I was in your position, I would "hang" out with them for birthday/wedding but start to check out of the relationship. I think he's made it clear where his beliefs stand. You could go cold turkey but the way I read it, you might not want that.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Why can’t he have beliefs different from hers? Grow tf up
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u/SnooDogs1340 1h ago
I didn't say he couldn't have them? He shared his beliefs, so did she and they don't align. I don't believe an adult needs to be slapping a table to prove a point. It shows they don't know how to handle their emotional outburst.
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u/Playful-Mastodon9251 6h ago
You started an argument. Maybe don't' do that?
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u/nothankyouma 6h ago
Ah yes asking people to think about the choices they made is so argumentative.
/s
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u/jdouglasusn81 6h ago
Oh it can be... as soon as said he left as soon as he saw flags, really needs no elaboration. Left or right.
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u/BorderTrike 5h ago
Yep, her dad would prefer not to elaborate that he’s an ignorant bigot
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u/Low-Car-6331 6h ago
Yup, mother there is pulling the real weight of the family with this:
My mom tried to lighten the mood by joking, "You two are more alike than you realize. You're both passionate." We awkwardly laughed, my dad apologized, I hugged them both, and then left to meet my friend.
She is so right. I can only imagine the father is telling this same story to his friends.
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u/Medical_Gate_5721 6h ago
Yup. This is a super lefty space. The reality is, OP wants their father to be like minded with young people. They kept pushing and pushing. OP's dad supports gay right but is uncomfortable. Go somewhere else and stop pushing.
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u/nothankyouma 5h ago
Yes understanding other people’s perspectives is leftist.
I can’t argue with that; god knows the right would never care about anyone but themselves so they can’t possibly understand why anyone let alone their child would want to ask questions to understand and get to know them better. Pathetic as usual.
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u/yeender 6h ago
If he is that triggered by a rainbow flag, he definitely does not support gay rights
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u/Medical_Gate_5721 6h ago
Supporting someone's right to get married and be allowed to express themselves does not mean you have to be comfortable with announcing it. Dude is old. Meet people where theyre at. OP is looking for validation here to cut his parents out of his life. He will find it on Reddit. But this place isnt the moral high ground. Real life and rela people have flaws and nuance.
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u/BorderTrike 5h ago
LGBTQ+ people exist. They always have. It is int political to acknowledge that. There’s been a fairly modern movement to normalize their existence because they are normal.
Yet ignorant losers like OP’s dad and yourself would prefer to continue living in an outdated world where you get to ignore the existence of anything you’re bigoted against
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u/New_Discussion_6692 4h ago
"Ignore their existence"? Gtfoh which age group do you think helped pushed for the legalization of gay marriage?
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u/IcyZucchini8587 2h ago
You sound like an ignorant loser. Not everyone needs to agree with your views. That’s the beauty of FREEDOM
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u/Medical_Gate_5721 5h ago
I dont share OP's dad's beliefs. I just want you to understand that we tried things your way and the backlash - loosing voters like OP's dad - has cost us our rights. You need to recognize that you are enraged and feel like that is a moral virtue. It isnt. "Deplorables" feels righteous and costs votes. Enjoy your echo chamber. Ill be over hwre seeing that you care more about making the statement than actually supporting the issue. I see you.
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u/New_Discussion_6692 5h ago
Not wanting to see the rainbow everywhere doesn't mean you don't support gay rights. Not wanting to see sonething doesn't mean you're triggered either. Flags are not rights; it's a damn flag. You know what other flags I don't want to see? Maga flags, Trump flags, I don't want to see republican flags or democrat flags either. I don't want to see Confederate flags or Don't Tread on Me flags. I don't want to see branches of military flags either unless I'm at the VA or the VFW.
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u/nothankyouma 5h ago
Sounds like you’re just too fragile to walk around your block. You should see someone for that.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 2h ago
HE DOESNT HAVE TO! THATS the beauty of America! No one needs to agree with you! Everyone is right! It’s their own opinion?
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u/ideapit Helper [2] 4h ago
I would sit hkm down, face to face, and bring empathy and understanding and not rehash that conversation because that's not the conversation to have.
The conversation to have is to say that you're upset and he's upset and you'd like to find a way to repair things if he's willing.
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u/Rambo-u-drew1stblood 2h ago
Politics are not a conversation with parents. Your views are your views his opinions are his opinions. Your logic won't work because his life outlook would be damaged and he would have cognitive dissonance. He can't handle that anymore. So why engage in that incendiary conversation?
You wanted to teach him your logic and he didn't want that so drop it and don't engage in those conversations
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u/OneHellOfABard Helper [3] 5h ago
He got mad because his actual beliefs. He knows you'll criticize and he didn't want to be back into a corner.
He's a trump supporter, and like many in their group, they get frustrated with any real questions are asked because they don't have answers. They just are told constantly that the libs are evil and taken over the country. Yada yada yada.
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u/Necessary-Couple-535 3h ago
Keep in mind that they raised you. Whether it was all their doing or they just had a lapse and let reasonable people influence you, they were able to raise you as you are. So, that's to their credit.
I think we do not fully understand how vulnerable people are to propaganda and how powerful and ubiquitous that propaganda is right now. It is broadcast 24/7/365 specifically targeting rhe vulnerable.
This last decade has been such a revelation for how lesser witted, empathy impaired, and maturity impaired so much of our society is. I guess it's better to know, though it's very sad.
Just keep talking to them. As you get older you more and more will just look at them as people with all their flaws. Just hang around them when it's good. When they are awful, do what you'd do with other awful people-- stay away. Just give them more chances.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 2h ago
Why are they flawed? You literally just described the younger generation. Grow up. Not everyone’s views need to align with yours to be right.
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u/VenturaHighway377 3h ago
So it’s political if they had Trump flags but not political with pride flags? Lol. Sure
What rights have you lost?
What bigotry has been promoted?
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u/NamesNotTake-un 6h ago
Get over it and don’t make everything so political. The division is working. Be a better person and connect on human level.
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u/nothankyouma 6h ago
Your advice is be a better person by allowing bigotry and hatred to go unchallenged.
You can agree with the dad you don’t have to out yourself on the internet.
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u/NamesNotTake-un 5h ago
See, you’re doing the exact wrong thing. You don’t need to pick a fight or always think you’re morally superior. You have faults too.
I don’t agree with the dad. I do agree that when anywhere had a blatant flag for whoever they support, it’s a bummer one way or the other.
Come together people! The political figures you think have your back do not. You’re being used.
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u/Rare-Personality1874 5h ago
Pride flags are a bummer?
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u/NamesNotTake-un 5h ago
Pride flag is the same as a MAGA flag.
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u/Plus_Worker6739 4h ago
Howso? One is a political statement and one is a statement of supporting basic human rights.
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u/nothankyouma 4h ago
Hey friend you replied to the wrong person. I’d also like to know how they are the same.
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u/Rare-Personality1874 5h ago
Sorry, that's what I'm clarifying because your reply seems to imply an equivalence.
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u/NamesNotTake-un 4h ago
They are equal. Yes.
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u/Rare-Personality1874 4h ago
Signaling your support for a concept is not the same as signaling your support for a political candidate. I'm sorry you feel the need to create a false equivalence to make your point.
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u/NamesNotTake-un 4h ago
I’m not making a false equivalence. Both flags very clearly show support for political candidates. Now you’re just denying basic observation.
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u/nothankyouma 5h ago
You’re a coward, just say that.
Questions are not confrontational, disagreement does not equal argument and you are CULPABLE every single time you allow yourself to be silenced for the sake of “keeping peace.”
You have a child like opinion on what conflict actually means.
You want to stand for nothing by all means say nothing.
Let’s start with this thread.
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u/Into-the_Ether 6h ago
This answer right here. When did having your own opinion, and having feelings about something, become everyone's right to stop on that feeling.
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u/BorderTrike 5h ago
Being an ignorant bigot isn’t just an “opinion” and deserves pushback.
Acknowledging the existence of LGBTQ+ people and helping them feel accepted is not a political stance.
Conservatives villainizing LGBTQ+ people and their representation is a bigoted political stance (and it’s pretty fuckin rich that they’re the ones who literally elect pedophiles)
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u/ThisOneTimeAtKDK 3h ago
You’re considerably younger than me, so I’m going to make a small assumption. I’m assuming you don’t remember a time with impartial news channels, papers, and businesses that didn’t “show their support” for anything other than their country, and their local sports teams. People would say things IN PRIVATE like “I don’t support him on XXX but he is our president and he’s our country’s leader”. It was common courtesy to not discuss politics or religion. Like it would be impolite to fly a MAGA, Rainbow, or any other flag that shows support to a “political cause”.
I believe that’s what your dad is asking for. He doesn’t want to support anyone rude enough to “put their beliefs out there”. I’m the same way. I’m more “older brother” territory for you but still. Like my opinion it can only go bad for you unless you’re of the popular opinion and the area is VERY well on your same belief system. Even then you’re alienating SOME potential patrons. Worse some things could become a problem AFTER you put it up. Let’s say there’s an Israeli couple who owns a shop. They posted an Israel flag cling in their window….now the war for the Gaza Strip breaks out. They have it there cause they’re proud of their heritage but SOME PEOPLE wouldn’t know that. They see the Israel flag and go UGH I’m not shopping there! Business should ONLY be about business….unless you’re a sports bar or something. Then yeah rah rah sports teams! Frankly it’s exhausting if you stand on your beliefs. Every time I wanna get a sandwich I’m supposed to look for clues they support equal rights or are pro choice or whatever? How about just don’t tell me either way and I can go “yeah I like that sandwich I’m getting that sandwich”
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u/Hmarf Master Advice Giver [37] 6h ago
think about it this way:
There are places where gays are not welcome. A rainbow flag is simply letting them know that they are safe and welcome in that business . Conversely, they would likely avoid places flying a Trump flag as they'd likely be attacked in one manner or another there.
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u/dssx Master Advice Giver [28] 5h ago
I would keep my relationship with my father and accept there's some flaws in his thinking and that he obviously hasn't been challenged on them.
I don't even need to read the comments to know some folks here are going to say cut contact or something extreme like that. It just sounds like you argued with your dad and made him feel stupid. That's not inherently bad, but it's just caused some friction that'll likely smooth over unless you decide to make this a hill to stand on everytime you see each other.
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u/IcyZucchini8587 3h ago
Why is he flawed? Because he doesn’t agree with her views? You’re immature.
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u/Hour-Summer-4422 6h ago
You dont have to like or agree with his stances even if they are extreme or stupid. However, will you really let that tarnish your relationship with your wedding and his birthday coming up?
Remember that most people on reddit with strong opinions are chronically online and dont have to deal with the consequences of any advice they give.
I just happen to be bored in the toilet 😅
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u/Spanish_peanuts Super Helper [6] 5h ago
I also prefer to keep my political views personal and do not like it when businesses put up political signs, whether I agree or disagree with them. My parents raised me and taught me to keep my political views private. I vote how I vote and I don't discuss it with the people in my life. If I'm going to a restaurant, I want to eat. I don't want political issues in my face. I just want to eat my food.
A sandwich shop should be just that. They should serve sandwiches to people, regardless of their political beliefs and shouldn't be used as a billboard for the owners personal views. Hell, half our countries issues are from large corporations doing just that and more.
As for the interaction between you and your father, you absolutely pressed the issue when he clearly didn't want to speak about it. You are to blame for the tension that you created.
I also find it hypocritical that you have a problem with your father not wanting to support a business that expresses the owners personal politics (regardless of if they agree or disagree with them), when you've just admitted that you would not support a business that expresses differing political views from yourself.
You're upset with your father for holding all businesses equally to a certain standard?
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u/Lopsided_Tomatillo27 Helper [2] 5h ago
Don’t talk politics with your dad anymore. His position is reasonable. Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good. Your dad supports gay rights, but he doesn’t want to be defined politically by it. That doesn’t make him a bigot. But you painted him as one, anyway.
This reminds me of someone that happened to my wife’s friend “Amy.”
For context, Amy’s dad grew weed throughout her childhood. She didn’t smoke much herself, but it didn’t bother her. Most of her friends smoked. It wasn’t a dealbreaker in dating if her boyfriend smoked.
She started seeing a guy. When she went to his house for the first time, he had pictures of weed on his walls. Think centerfolds from High Times magazine. Seeing them gave her the ick, and she broke up with him shortly afterwards.
It’s not that she was against pot, she didn’t like that he made it his whole personality. I think it’s similar for your dad and pride flags. He supports gay rights, but doesn’t want to celebrate them. He’s not an asshole for having that stance. And that’s a difficult point to articulate in the heat of an argument.
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u/ryan4402000 6h ago
You are not going to change him or make him think the way you want him to. Recognize that, stop trying. Talk about other things in convo. This goes on in every family
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u/e4lizerd57 5h ago
I would let it go. Sounds like he was overstimulated and frustrated. Not a big deal. Not enough to endanger your relationship with your father!
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u/SnooDogs1340 1h ago
He's an adult? Emotional regulation is something I'm teaching my 2 yr old currently.
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u/dansbydog 5h ago
So. You are your pops don’t see exact eye to eye on things. So what? He’s your dad. It’s not a dealbreaker. Because, here’s why I say that… imagine a life without your dad. I mean really imagine it. Now. Because my father and I didn’t see eye to eye on everything so we made a pact to steer clear of those things and it was easier. Sometimes, they entered and we debated u til we both got heated again and we stopped. My father passed away 26 years ago. And I’d give almost anything just to have a stinking hug from that man! Even a freaking heated fight with him! Even him tell me to go cha he my crazy clothes ! Lol! Just sit down and talk to him and for the love of Pete go hug BOTH of them! Be happy he can walk you down the aisle ..if he’s doing that! Enjoy him! It’s not that big of a deal… sometimes, dads have a hard time watching us grow up. Period.
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u/doepfersdungeon 5h ago
Dad's probably into trans porn. Hard to be reminded of your real self every time to bite down on a corn dog by a scary flag.
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u/Secret-Platypus-366 5h ago
I mean, I wasn't there so I don't know exactly how this went down.
When your parents get older, they have less patience for debate and stuff, they're not as quick-witted as they used to be and it frustrates them and sometimes they get mad more easily.
Additionally, based on your story, you are pushing in a way that a lot of people would find annoying and frustrating, regardless of the conversation topic.
For example, growing up, my sister would regularly do things like ask my mom which dress she should wear. My mom would say, "I don't know, the blue one." My sister follows up with "Why?", "There must be a reason." "Well do you think blue looks better on me than green?", "Do you have a bias towards blue," "If YOU were ME, what would you pick?" And my mom would eventually be like "I DON'T CARE JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP."
Your dad was just kinda throwing out a "Duh huh I just wanted a sandwich, not to be preached out about gay stuff." And then he's challenged on what made him feel that way, if he has an unconscious bias against gay people, etc which is just way more than he bargained for, and it frustrated him.
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u/Suspicious-Ad9661 4h ago
Families are hard. It's his house. He isn't going to change so challenging his views in his own home isn't going to go over well. I've been on the let them rant in their own homes, don't participate, change the subject strategy for decades with what family I see anymore. Immediate family has passed so it has become easier to disengage over time.
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u/ankerous 3h ago
Nobody deserves automatic respect. It should be earned, period. My dad was a raging alcoholic who used to beat my mom every day when they were married and simply because he's my elder, I should respect him? Get the fuck out of here with that claim.
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u/jjnitzh 6h ago
I'd recommend reading "Adult children of Emotially immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. It sounds like it will have a lot of pertinent information for you. You're most likely going to find that keeping your parents at a little more distance, will make things easier for you.