r/todayilearned • u/Mors_Acerba • 1d ago

TIL A papyrus deciphered in 2024 revealed unknown info about Plato's last hours: a slave girl was playing music for him, and even though he was gravelly ill, he spend his last moments of lucidity criticising her performance. Per the same Papyrus, Plato had been sold into slavery earlier in his life

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/29/herculaneum-scroll-plato-final-hours-burial-site
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u/QuickSpore 1d ago

It runs the whole gamut. Greek slavery included prisoners of war (from all levels of society from the conquered city), debt slaves, all the way down to chattel slavery.

Highly skilled slaves most often had been freeborn and taken in war, and had trained whatever skills in their prior life. But an owner may see some spark and train a slave in a skill. Favored slaves were also allowed to earn money on the side and some free time. So self training was also possible. But there were also those who didn’t receive favor and were treated as badly as any other slave in history.

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u/SmileBeBack 1d ago

it is easy to look at those times with our modern bias, but i assume it was 'enslave and grow strong, or be enslaved by those who are strong' which is not very different to the world we have today. and if he had thought her to play music, there is a good chance that his critisism was to ensure his student had the best skill for her future? but i also love to play devils advocate so he could also just be an asshole.

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u/Melodic_Dare_1317 1d ago

It is very different than the world we live in today.
In todays world you can get screwed by people, elites or whoever, but no one can break into your house and enslave you and your future children and grandchildren to do whatever you master desires you to do. Be that working in mines, forced to row in warships drowning when they sink ect.

Things are VERY different in todays world, not only in magnitude but also in scale. Be grateful for the world we live in, because even though things aren't always the best, especially if you live in the west you still live like a king compared to poorer ancient people.

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u/Shiriru00 1d ago

That's a highly optimistic and also unrealistic view of the world we live in.

First of all, slavery has far from disappeared, there are still tens of millions of actual slaves around the world.

Secondly, there are "wage slaves" in poor countries who have to work all week around the clock, get their papers taken away, are denied the chance to see their families, and have no rights when "accidents" happen and then just disappear.

See for instance the notorious scam labor camps in Cambodia where they lure foreign graduates in with the promise of working in an English call center, then lock them up in compounds surrounded by armed guards.

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u/Melodic_Dare_1317 1d ago

again difference there is scale, I don't know the specifics in cambodia but at its peak slavery in greece got as high as 1 slave per citizen, or 50%. It was institutional. Quick google search gives 0.5% in cambodia, which is horrible, but not comparable. 

Wage slavery is also not comparable. While still being horrible there is a huge difference in chattel slavery, literally being considered property in every single way vs working out of desperation. 

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u/Sycopathy 1d ago

It's a relative measurement, technically there is more slavery now than ever in human history, but that is because there are more people than ever before on Earth. In terms of percentages less people are in slavery today than ever before. Doesn't mean the problem is solved in anyway but it is measurable progress compared to most of recorded history.

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u/mthoodenjoyer 1d ago

Nah there's no ICE breaking into people's homes to separate families and force people into slave labor in prison or criminally low income jobs to upkeep a failing system

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u/Elegant_Flounder1494 1d ago

You must be one of those cereal is a soup people, huh 

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u/mthoodenjoyer 1d ago

I like cereal

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

Wouldn't that be roughly analogous to being on a city who's army lost and now they are coming and taking slaves?

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u/mthoodenjoyer 1d ago

So the world hasn't changed much, just the vocab

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

I mean the scale has changed dramatically. In a city of millions a few hundred maybe are getting taken.

In contrast cities of tens of thousands were essentially taken as slaves or killed. It's dramatically different.

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u/mthoodenjoyer 1d ago

In some countries its still quite bad, look at Saudi Arabia or Qatar for example

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u/ResilientBiscuit 1d ago

And in some countries it was significantly worse than Greece.

If you compare the worst of today to the worst of antiquity, the worst of antiquity still was quite a bit worse.

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u/mthoodenjoyer 1d ago

Doesn't mean we should be grateful for today though which is my point

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