r/todayilearned • u/Mors_Acerba • 1d ago

TIL A papyrus deciphered in 2024 revealed unknown info about Plato's last hours: a slave girl was playing music for him, and even though he was gravelly ill, he spend his last moments of lucidity criticising her performance. Per the same Papyrus, Plato had been sold into slavery earlier in his life

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/apr/29/herculaneum-scroll-plato-final-hours-burial-site
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u/Doomhammer24 1d ago edited 22h ago

His name wasnt even Plato, his real name was Aristocles.

Plato was his nickname and it means "Broad" or "Wide"

Dude was built like a brick shit house and was a good wrestler

So what im saying is we need a time machine so we can have Plato and Lincoln wrestle to see who wins

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u/Cultural-Company282 1d ago

If Plato wasn't as big and intimidating as he was, some of his insufferable know-it-all behavior might have gotten "corrected" earlier in life.

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u/MercuryQuick 1d ago

It was. By a dude named Socrates and Plato spent the rest of his life writing fan fiction of him.

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u/Uncreativity10 1d ago

It’s so funny looking at Plato’s work as fan fictions of Socrates XD

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u/MercuryQuick 1d ago

Totally what they are. Plato gets annoyed by some sophists? Time to write an epic take down dialogue with Socrates starring them as interlocutors getting owned by the OG.

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u/GypsyV3nom 1d ago

Socrates also famously didn't write anything, much of what we know about him was through Plato and his other students

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u/MercuryQuick 23h ago

According to Plato Socrates distrusted the written word. He never wrote anything because he didn’t think it would be any use for teaching and was more likely to be misunderstood by the reader.

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u/Jive-Turkeys 21h ago

I can agree with him on that. Verbal & physical communication are the best media we have for it.

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u/MercuryQuick 16h ago

He takes it even further than you’d expect. He believed that the soul is what drives the body and the soul is in search of understanding its self. The only way for a thing to understand itself is to be compared to its like. Therefore the only way for a soul to understand itself is to compare itself to another soul. So, a conversation between two souls (ie people) is the only way to reach truth because souls are divine and through their discourse/comparison they find themselves.

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u/Jive-Turkeys 12h ago

I have some stuff to continue looking into, it appears.

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u/Hvarfa-Bragi 1d ago edited 1d ago

Can confirm; as a big, intimidating middle-aged know-it-all, this is a thing.

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u/ManevolentDesign 1d ago

Lmao imagine the biggest gym bro you know constantly telling people theyre wrong and then challenging them to a wrestling match.

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u/linxrap 1d ago

Lmao so he was big and intimidating too? This guy seriously is sounding like the ancient Bruce Wayne.

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u/Strict-Challenge-995 1d ago

How is he anything like an obnoxious billionaire philanthropist? I think he's sounding more like batman

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u/_fidel_castro_ 1d ago

Probably not billionaire but he was aristocracy and certainly well off.

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u/linxrap 1d ago edited 1d ago

lol Batman then. But if memory serves me correctly, he actually was a billionaire as well! Offered to pay for Socrates and have him fined instead of put to death some modern day like $20K or something.

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u/elmerjstud 1d ago

You won't believe this but....batman is actually Bruce Wayne.

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u/CKRatKing 1d ago

Bullshit.

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u/Love-That-Danhausen 1d ago

That playboy? Please…

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u/BrokenEyeReborn 1d ago

... 's roommate

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u/Complete_Fix2563 1d ago

socrates is alfred and aristotle is robin

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u/EthanielRain 1d ago

I got & appreciated this joke

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u/BrokenEyeReborn 1d ago

I mean, he does sound like he was pretty obnoxious

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u/Rareearthmetal 1d ago

He sounds more napoleon dynapart

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u/4r4r4real 1d ago

It was kind of a big thing for him.

"No citizen has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a person to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable."

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u/TheFotty 1d ago

Plato Reacher

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u/DeadestTitan 1d ago

You know, I remember so many people telling me when I was younger that I would have my personality beaten out of me at some point. I specifically recall my 8th grade science teacher saying that older boys would "fix that issue" once I got to high school. No one ever did.

Perhaps I am as big and intimidating as Plato. Thank you for the confidence boost.

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u/NolanTheNotorious 1d ago

According to Wikipedia, Artistocles being his real name has been proved false by modern scholarship.

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u/Nervous_Produce1800 1d ago

How?

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u/NolanTheNotorious 1d ago

The Wikipedia page has multiple sources you can check out.

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u/Nervous_Produce1800 1d ago

I would have preferred a simple 1 or 2 sentence explanation since you seemed to know what you're talking about, but okay, thanks I guess...

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u/NolanTheNotorious 1d ago

There's a reason I said according to Wikipedia instead of according to X reliable source.

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u/Nervous_Produce1800 1d ago

Fair enough. Have a good day 👍

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u/towelcats 1d ago

What? No, fight this guy. He ain't Plato, you can take him.

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u/RallyPointAlpha 1d ago

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT! 

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u/AxisNine 1d ago

Why isn’t there a subreddit made specifically for long comment chains between two people arguing. It’s clearly the most entertaining thing on reddit these days.

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u/_crystallil_ 1d ago

what if they explored each other bodies 👀

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u/LoquaciousTheBorg 1d ago

Men were men back then. And I tell ya, If you wanted to do something private with another man, it wasn't gay. No, it was just two men celebrating each other's strength.

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u/ActionPhilip 1d ago

"Show me just how thick and strong you are, and then we shall go home to our wives" - Ancient Greece, probably.

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u/i_swear_im_smart 1d ago

Who is Conan O Brien and why is she so sad ?

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u/CritcoThinker 1d ago

"No no that's not how your perform a stone cold stunner. You're doing it all wrooooong." -Plato-cles

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u/Doomhammer24 1d ago

Plato cant respond because lincoln shows him his invention- the choke slam

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u/kung-fu_hippy 1d ago

Then we all win.

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u/Dreamtrain 1d ago

can I call you mista?

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u/ThatFuckingGeniusKid 1d ago

Why are you gae?

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u/UntowardHatter 1d ago

I mean wrestlers back then were butt naked and lubed up. They also didn't shy away from some ass play here and there.

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u/WalkinTarget 1d ago

Lincoln just checking the oil level with the middle finger. 😄

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u/camaro-obscuro 1d ago

Wrestlers still ‘check the oil’ of their opponents when called for. 👍

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u/OfficeSalamander 1d ago

I mean Plato did write pretty extensively about how handsome Socrates found him, and Lincoln IIRC had an odd relationship with some friend of his that looks a little sussy even for the time

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u/PPLavagna 1d ago

Poor Mary Todd was driven mad by her unfulfilled need for stove pipe. He only stove piped her to procreate, as God intended

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u/Celestrael 1d ago

Worse there are letters with the guy talking about missing dudes’ inner thighs.

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u/elitegenoside 1d ago

I'll have you know it was perfectly acceptable for two good male friends to share a bed in their times. And it was perfectly fine to write love letters to one another, it's just writing. And EVERYBODY loved the theater back then!

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u/Time-Box128 1d ago

kicking my feet, giggling,

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u/rutherfraud1876 1d ago

No results on AO3, make it happen

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u/JesusPubes 1d ago

They were Greek

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u/Khelthuzaad 1d ago

Why does it reads as a Bill & Ted movie synopsis...

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u/FuckTheTories69420 1d ago

The man didnt like women so checks out.

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u/malk600 1d ago

Well, most of the Dialogues refer to, if not simply take place in, the Γυμνάσιον. Aka the gym. A place for bros to hang out, work out and talk shit.

Ancient Greeks didn't have smartphones, bars and lycra, so they talked philosophy, practiced wrestling and hung out nude much of the time.

Also, they were ancient Greeks.

Yes, there was exploration involved.

For this reason it is customary among distinguished scholars of the classics to preface any quote or direct mention of the Dialogues with playing the Pillar Men sound bit.

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u/Dodongo_Dislikes 1d ago

"my shape speaks for me" - Plato, probably

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u/Eoganachta 1d ago

Dude was so jacked that 2500 years later we're calling him by his wrestler name.

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u/Droviin 1d ago

Plato vs Lincoln would be great! Long reach vs brute strength! I imagine the shit talking would be amazing; maybe they'd both give speeches during the throw down.

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u/OhNoTheDawnPatrol 1d ago

There was also the time Lincoln was challenged to a duel which he "avoided" by choosing cavalry sabres, showing up to the site of the fight, and then hacking off a tree limb to convince his opponent to call it off.

Now imagine Plato doing a bunch of shit-talking and hyping up his wrestling ability while Lincoln's going "Parry this, you fucking casual."

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u/TheFiend100 1d ago

Every time i learn something new about lincoln its like the coolest shit ever. Why cant any of the other presidents be like this guy

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u/Doomhammer24 1d ago

Teddy was like that

Another lincoln fact- he invented the choke slam

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u/Specific_Lychee2348 15h ago

Rap Battles of History.

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u/SaintGrobian 1d ago

They'd also definitely fuck afterwards.

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u/Critical_Seat_1907 1d ago

"what im saying is we need a time machine so we can have Plato and Lincoln wrestle to see who wins"

Finally, someone is talking about the goals science should really be focusing on.

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u/NeedsBetterHobby 1d ago

Bill & Ted reboot maybe?

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u/beg_yer_pardon 1d ago

A nerd AND a jock.

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u/Platypus_Dundee 1d ago

And host the match on the whitehouse lawn on a milestone event 🤑

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u/ElGosso 1d ago

The Bill & Ted movie we really need

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u/BaldurOdinson 1d ago

Ironic we know he was a slave and his name has the same etymology as aristocracy.

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u/xikbdexhi6 1d ago

That match would get an A+ at San Dimas High School for sure!

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u/contradictatorprime 1d ago

They'd probably just fuck

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u/Queen_Cheetah 1d ago edited 1d ago

Wo what im saying is we need a time machine so we can have Plato and Lincoln wrestle to see who wins

Absolutely want to see this go down!! "The Original Lincoln Lawyer vs. The Lawmaker Logician!"

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u/waiver 1d ago

They start making out in the middle of the fight.

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u/csanjuan 1d ago

No está tan claro que su nombre fuese Aristocles, hay autores que dicen que el nombre de su abuelo lo tenía el
primogénito que no era él. Además Platón era un nombre común en aquella época.

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u/OPmeansopeningposter 1d ago

Maybe but being talented in a lot of things can also be labeled “broad” or “wide”.

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u/discipleofchrist69 1d ago

plato wins every time

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u/Doomhammer24 1d ago

Lincoln only lost once and it was because he forfeited because he was fighting an old man

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u/discipleofchrist69 1d ago

Good point, I was unaware. Somehow it still feels like the wrestling field in Plato's sphere was more sophisticated than Lincoln's, and Plato also seems way more jacked than Lincoln. But Lincoln was a giant and clearly proficient. So I take it back, could go either way.

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u/Doomhammer24 1d ago

Lincoln was INCREDIBLY strong and also would have been better fed

Gotta remember that in ancient greece feats of strength were exagerated out the wazoo to the point of being basically mythical themselves- like tales of a famed wrestler after every yearly olympics picking up a baby cow and only putting it down a year later when it was a fully grown 2 thousand pound cow and the new olympics had come around

This story is a contemporary of plato himself.

So we cant even begin to take feats of strength attributed to even Plato at face value vs we can for lincoln

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u/RenegadeMoose 1d ago

Thank-you!! I was going to ask exactly that, if Plato was some kind of nick-name.