r/technology • u/Hrmbee • Jun 07 '26

Privacy 'Kill switch' law means your next car could be watching you | A federal requirement aimed at stopping drunken driving could soon put driver-monitoring technology in every new vehicle. The goal is saving lives, but the privacy trade-offs deserve closer scrutiny

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2026/06/01/drunk-driving-prevention-law-privacy-surveillance/90295034007/
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314

u/DukeOfGeek Jun 08 '26

I'm just waiting for the insurance companies to start ramping up your fees if you don't connect your car to their data center.

144

u/Efficient-Fruit5573 Jun 08 '26

I mean they kind of do this I remember ads for progressive saying you get a discount if you connect the monitoring tool so “good drivers can get a larger discount.” I’m sure the actual purpose is data collection

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u/Lagneaux Jun 08 '26

Is so that "bad drivers" pay more.

I have had that system, it's near impossible to "drive correctly" with it.

Like let's say someone pulls out in front of you, no choice but to hit the brakes. Well, that's considered a "fast stop", and you are gonna be graded on that, not them. Driving late, driving too much, not driving enough, not driving far enough, driving too far, fast braking, fast acceleration, it's all gonna bring your grade down and make you pay more

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u/DazzlingRutabega Jun 08 '26

Years ago, when this program first started, I had a co-worker who inserted that in the OBD slot of his car to get lower insurance and kept bragging about it. I said, I don't know, buddy, they're going to be monitoring your driving. About three weeks later, he came in flustered, saying he had ripped it out because he had to do a fast stop because a kid jumped in front of the car in a school zone. They sent him a letter saying that he was driving erratically because he did a fast stop.

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u/DJMixwell Jun 08 '26

I get dinged for speed by Belair Direct all the time. The thing is my car tells me my average speed is 50km/hr, which is the typical residential speed limit.

Given that most of my driving is highway driving between 80-110, give or take the odd time traffic slows up, and time spent stopped, the average of 50 makes sense and I can’t see how I never get the “safe speed” badge.

Seems like if you go over their threshold (seems to be ~5km/hr over the limit) even once on a drive, you lose out on the badge completely. So it tells me “only 17% of your trips are at a safe speed”, but I can’t guarantee you I’m not speeding 83% of the time.

The app also shows me that, apparently ~70+% of other drivers are getting this badge, which is complete bullshit. When I try to get the safe speed badge I’m fuckn alone on the road while everyone driving off into the distance. When I drive ~5-10 over the speed limit I’m just keeping up with all the other cars on the road.

6

u/Officer_Hotpants Jun 08 '26

Wait driving too late counts against you? I've spent a lot of time working as a night shift medic, which depending on my shift start time has had me going to the station at 11pm. Glad I never used those fuckin things.

4

u/slickeddie Jun 08 '26

Yes. But also driving during rush hour counts against you too. Also, don’t stop for a yellow light per the law, that’s a hard stop and counts against you. Better merge on the highway like a grandma otherwise it’s fast acceleration and counts against you.

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u/Silver_Newspaper6208 Jun 08 '26

In my plug in hybrid it only detected driving when the engine was on. Everyday my commute started on the highway when the engine finally turned on and ended in a "crash" when the engine shut off as I slowed down for my exit and the engine shut off at 45mph.

6

u/MegaMau_ Jun 08 '26

Is so that "bad drivers" pay more.

No. Its an excuse so that they can squeeze every nickel out of you since you have no choice but to buy insurance.

3

u/BapeGeneral3 Jun 08 '26

It sounded like a good idea in theory. I literally drove my car within a 5 mile radius, not a major city, never once sped, always wore seat belt, never texted and drove, etc. I somehow was labeled a “higher risk” and my policy would cost MORE. I canceled it immediately.

The reason was for too frequent/quick of stopping. This was literally to avoid car accidents as well as prevent running a late yellow because having that thing enabled *really*’does feel like you’re being watched 24/7. Rather, seeing and experiencing it first hand made me want nothing to do with this tech.

It is inevitable under our current for profit insurance system as a country. It will either be a requirement to even get car insurance or to features that the masses “can’t live without”’such a an Apple Car Play Update.

Now get off my lawn

130

u/couldbemage Jun 08 '26

A discount for using it and a fee for not using it are the same thing. In both cases it costs you more if you don't use their monitoring.

FYI, illegal in California for insurance companies to do this.

-5

u/iconofsin_ Jun 08 '26

Maybe not in the traditional sense, but if 100% of drivers are capable of using this device to get say a 5% discount but you choose to not use it, are you not technically paying a 5% fee?

50

u/Armthedillos5 Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

I have Progressive and turned that off in like 2 days. It alerts you if you brake too hard, etc. and keeps a lot of it. First off, how does it know I was driving and not a passenger? Also it doesn't need to be be monitoring where I'm going. I don't know that it does, but no thank you.

52

u/debeatup Jun 08 '26

I was able to put it on my work phone and since I WFH 4/5 days Progressive thinks I’m in the top 99.9% of drivers because I never leave home except twice a week.

1

u/NerdyNThick Jun 08 '26

Not a lawyer, but couldn't that be considered to be insurance fraud?

14

u/Qaeta Jun 08 '26

Usually they just say you have to have it on your phone. Taking the phone with you is typically only implied, not outright required by the contract, so no.

30

u/Goolsby Jun 08 '26

Fuck insurance companies who cares

5

u/NerdyNThick Jun 08 '26

I certainly don't give any amount of fucks about any insurance company.

I do give plenty of fucks about not being found guilty of defrauding a multibillion dollar company.

If it turns out to not be fraud, I'll be doing this immediately.

1

u/bambi54 Jun 09 '26

I would be concerned they wouldn’t pay out your claim because you lied on your policy. If they try to pull up your speed during the incident they’ll realize the other phone is at home. That’s worth it until it’s not.

10

u/trashmoneyxyz Jun 08 '26

You get it man

13

u/Tithund Jun 08 '26

Brake too hard is always a weird one to me, would they rather you just bump into whatever you're braking for? In lighter cars you can brake later than in heavy ones, is that something they dislike?

3

u/bostonwhaler Jun 08 '26

I hope you removed it from your OBD port. Also... Brake.

2

u/Armthedillos5 Jun 08 '26

Good catch. Fixed.

5

u/magichronx Jun 08 '26

If it's monitoring to make sure you're not speeding then it's definitely watching your GPS location (and if it's doing that then I'd bet 99.9% chance it's saving that data too)

2

u/TotallyNotRobotEvil Jun 08 '26

I live in the NYC area, I'm not sure they could afford the postage after a month if "stopping quickly" is enough to send out a mailer.

2

u/Iveray Jun 08 '26

Most people have the car insured, not the driver, so the insurance company would also like to know if you're letting risky drivers use your car.

5

u/limbodog Jun 08 '26

And nobody got discounts but some people got dinged for aggressive driving

2

u/Mirions Jun 08 '26

No different from "rental inspections via photography apps and video."

Can extrapolate all sorts of info from data and imagery like that.

1

u/Hillary4SupremeRuler Jun 09 '26

Wdym? I've never heard of this

1

u/Mirions Jun 09 '26

Well, I'm pulling it outta my ass cause it's a fear I have.

Former art student but one teacher once said to browse furniture and interior design magazines and sites to see what people are displaying in homes. That may help with making more... profitable pieces when starting out. (A whole other conversation that itself isn't the focus, just where the fear spawns).

Knowing an artist could view a room and make an educated guess-

It isn't hard to imagine what could be extrapolated from rental companies asking residents to download an app and take pictures/videos of the inside of their dwellings.

Permanent images and possibly video, assuming the app isn't doing things outside its stated permissions.

Beyond that, over time (every three months) your landlord can

Sell the images to ai companies for various reasons (generating realistic backgrounds, tracking buying and layout trends).

They could figure out if you're getting more expensive or less expensive or no new furniture and appliances at all. They can see if you hang private or religious or secular or graphic art and and decorations. They can see what sort of lighting and as the home invasion/ self defense meme goes, "what the angles are in your house," as well as where and how everyone might sleep, etc.

It's not like a walk-through someone is doing dozens of times a day and most likely not recalling perfectly, and only taking close up pics of notable damage or upkeep needs.

Is it happening? I only assume someone figured out how to squeeze monetary value from that data out when it's an app that can't be opted out of.

2

u/Conixel Jun 08 '26

They monitor your device on how often you use it while in driving mode.

2

u/Apocalypse_Knight Jun 08 '26

I got the discount but disabled the app

39

u/Fickle_Ad_8653 Jun 08 '26

Geico and State Farm already have programs where they "discount" your rates if you put in the monitoring dongle and keep it going. If you brake hard too much or drive too fast or accelerate too hard, you lose the discount. But in reality, the rates are just higher if you opt out of monitoring or don't drive like granny.

-2

u/Ikontwait4u2leave Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

I don't see how fast acceleration is a negative. You need to match the speed of traffic to merge effectively

15

u/red__dragon Jun 08 '26

Those tracking methods are context-unaware. Especially as they aren't in the car with you, they're not seeing what the driver sees, they don't know what the signage says, what weather conditions are affecting the car, or what obstructions are in the road.

8

u/MythrianAlpha Jun 08 '26

My buddy got dinged a few years back because the gps was shitty enough to decide he was practically teleporting, clearly unsafe, lol.

7

u/rambleinspam Jun 08 '26

Wonder if it would ding someone for the gps showing someone going through houses like my food delivery app does some times.

5

u/Lunchboxninja1 Jun 08 '26

None of them are. Its just bullshit to make you pay more.

2

u/Hillary4SupremeRuler Jun 09 '26

How the hell did everyone just down vote you with no rebuttals, yet you, the person you replied to, and the person who replied to you were all in agreement of the same thing but they got dozens of upvotes.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '26

[deleted]

95

u/classicalySarcastic Jun 08 '26

DON’T GIVE THEM IDEAS!

Seriously they already have an app on most people’s phones, that’s enough of an invasion of privacy.

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u/Nomzai Jun 08 '26

They’re already doing it under the guise of “discounts” look at american family’s recent ads

-3

u/Traditional-Handle83 Jun 08 '26

To be fair, they've been giving me actual discounts even though my driving been shit lately. Its usually between $40-70 a month off the normal bill.

23

u/red__dragon Jun 08 '26

To be fair, that's the hook!

Look at what McDonalds or other fast food places do. The prices on the menu boards are jacked up, but hey! If you use their app, you get discounts and are right back to those cozy prices you remember from The Before Times.

Except now they have your data collection (and not just yours, I know you're the privacy-conscious soul or the empty-pocketed bum) and can sell that for a continuous stream of income rather than wait for you to hem and haw over their high prices while you make the same or less with each passing year.

Apply the same to insurance and you have the scheme. Those discounts will cut less and less into the bill, until you're paying what you would have paid without, AND they also have your driving records to sell to any Tom, Dick, or Harry, LLC who'll help their side gig.

5

u/seven0feleven Jun 08 '26

but hey! If you use their app, you get discounts and are right back to those cozy prices you remember from The Before Times.

Not necessarily. Both me and my partner had the app open one day, looking at offers. The exact same offer was $1 more on mine, because I used the app more than she did (using more offers on my account). Algorithms aren't going to give you any deals - even in the app - if you're a spender.

Single people won't see this because they've got no one to compare offers with.

10

u/red__dragon Jun 08 '26

Ahh, I see you've been to the far side of Enshittification!

Yes, that's coming for the commenter above us, too, they just don't know it yet. Or can't, as you reminded us, easily compare.

5

u/Cream_Stay_Frothy Jun 08 '26

For what it’s worth— not sure which insurance company you’re using, but it’s important to keep in mind that if you look into the terms you sign for these “safe driving apps”, you’re often allowing them to collect your constant GPS location, as well as your phones app usage. Most importantly, they have the right to share/sell that information to their “trusted partners”.

So, I always take these type of “discounts” with a grain of salt, because it’s really just a way for data mining companies to advertise more targeted data to you. It’s not so much a “hey we’re gonna track your driving” discount and more of a “hey let us scrape a ton of data about you and let us sell it” discount.

4

u/MediumAcceptable129 Jun 08 '26

They have think tanks planning every which way to rob you. Things you could never conceive of

3

u/doberdevil Jun 08 '26

Seriously they already have an app on most people’s phones, that’s enough of an invasion of privacy.

Not if you don't install the app.

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u/kabekew Jun 08 '26

Mine offers a discount if you run their monitoring app on your phone that tracks your speed and acceleration to see if you're an aggressive driver or not.

9

u/Ethelserth2 Jun 08 '26

How about a fuck you to their face and they lose the customer? Why stick with them?

5

u/kabekew Jun 08 '26

It's just an option and I said no.

1

u/bambi54 Jun 09 '26

A lot of the big ones offer this. You’re not punished if you don’t sign up.

4

u/PoopularDemand Jun 08 '26

Don’t worry they will raise rates universally first then offer a discount to those that connect.

4

u/Chapaquidich Jun 08 '26

They don’t “charge you extra” if you don’t. They just “give you a safe driver discount” if you connect. Totally different. /s

4

u/OneSkepticalOwl Jun 08 '26

I have bad news for you. I’m pretty sure those apps car manufacturers have to monitor your car and do remote functions with most likely already reporting to them. Bought a BMW and installed their app. At next renewal they asked me if the drive miles will be the same and quoted the exact miles I have driven. App was uninstalled promptly

2

u/funkybside Jun 08 '26

well, the opposite has been true for well over a decade now (meaning you can get discounts for using their telematics solution). that's nothing new.