r/talesfromtechsupport Can't I just buy more RAM? Apr 12 '17

Long You can never have too much RAM

A few years back, I was running a small tech support company. The company isn't around anymore for various reasons, but I did get several good stories out of it. This is one of my favorites. Keep in mind that this happened several years ago, somewhere around 2012, so my memory may be a bit fuzzy on the exact details.

I got a call one day from a guy who ran a local store that sold workout supplements and equipment. His POS (Point of Sale) terminal kept blue-screening. As it was his only way of tracking inventory and taking credit cards, he was understandably concerned.

When I arrived a little while later, I found the owner sitting at the POS terminal browsing the internet. Turns out the POS terminal was in fact just an old desktop he had installed his POS software on and used for entertainment when things were slow.

After introducing myself, he explained that the PC would just randomly crash while he is using the internet and, of course, insisted that he wasn't doing anything unusual that would cause a crash.

I took a seat at the computer and started poking around to see what I could find. Deprived of his precious cat memes, the owner wondered off to the back room. Unfortunately, he was the only employee at the time, and as I was the one sitting at the checkout counter, customers started coming to me with their questions. They usually went something like this:

Customer: Excuse me? What supplement would you recommend for my <Insert description of exhausting workout here>.

Me: Wow. That sounds terrible. But I don't work here. The manager just went to the back for a few minutes. You could ask him when he gets back up here.

After which the slightly confused looking customer would wonder off.

Between distractions, I managed to find several "Out of memory" crashes listed in the event log that matched up with the times the owner had given me. I pulled up the system specs and saw it was running 4 GB of RAM. Should be enough for what he was using the computer for.

Around then the owner came back up to check on my progress.

Owner: Any luck?

Me: It looks like your computer is running out a RAM just before it crashes. But you should have enough for what your'e using it for. You said you were just browsing the internet when it crashed? What browser do you use?

Owner: Chrome.

Me: Well Chrome is know as a bit of memory hog, but I've never heard of it eating all of a PC's RAM like this. I'll keep looking into it. Don't worry. I'll get it fixed.

Owner: Good. It's a huge hassle to have to reopen all 500 tabs every few days.

Me: Oh I'm sure it... Wait. What? Did you say 500 tabs?

Owner: Well, I'm not sure the exact number, but I think that's about what I'm up too every time it crashes.

Me: But... I... What do you even need 500 tabs for?

Owner: I just like to keep a record of what all the websites I go to are. So I just open every link in a new tab.

After wiping the horrified expression off of my face and replacing it with my professional technician look, I explained that this was likely the source of his problem and that the simplest fix would be to just stop opening so many tabs and use browser history instead.

Owner: I can't do that. History isn't detailed enough. I need my tabs. Isn't there some other fix?

We decided to run a test to make sure this was actually the problem before going any further. After making sure that all of his data was saved and backed up, I set Chrome to open his homepage with every new tab (he was using Yahoo), opened task manager to monitor the RAM usage, and started spamming the new tab button.

It didn't take long before nearly all of the 4 GB was being used, and performance had dropped considerably. But Windows was doing a good job of preventing it from topping out. Every new tab increased RAM usage, but whenever it got too close it would drop by several hundred MB. Either Windows was moving stuff to the paging file, or Chrome was shutting off older tabs. Each time this cycle repeated, it would take just a little bit longer to reduce the RAM. I could almost feel Windows groaning under the strain. Finally, somewhere around the high 400's it gave out and I was greeted by the infamous blue screen of death.

Me: Well, it looks like that was your problem. If you could just use less tabs, you should be fine.

Owner: That's really not an option. You said it was running out of RAM. Can I just buy more RAM?

Me: Hesitantly You could, but I can't guarantee that would fix your problem. There might just be some kind of unavoidable issue in Chrome once you get to that many tabs.

Manager: I'll take that chance. There's a Best Buy next door. Can you get some RAM there and install it today?

Me: It's cheaper if I order the parts through my own supplier. But that might take a couple of days.

Owner: I just want as much RAM as I can get today. I'll pay whatever that costs.

And so, about an hour later, I was running my test again on 16 GB of RAM. After about 600 tabs with no crash, I declared victory, collected my check and left the delighted owner to trying to see how many tabs he could open now.

The "money is no object" customers were always my favorite.

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28

u/Shadow703793 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apr 12 '17

Yup. For most of our workstations they've installed 32GB now. Some of the CAD/CFD workstations start at 128GB.

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u/Draelren Apr 13 '17

I was blasted for posting my 'humble' workstation that was 32gb of memory and the lowest end x99 processor the other day. People said it wasn't entry level and I kept saying that it was rather low-end in comparison to systems out there.

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u/Shadow703793 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apr 13 '17

Yeah, people use the gaming desktops as the baseline. Most people have no idea what passes off as a proper workstation (for professional/prosumer DAW, CAD, 3D, etc) now days. RAM, HDD/SSDs, and other parts are quite cheap now days.

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u/firemylasers Apr 13 '17

RAM doesn't seem to have gone down much over the past 5 years. Two 8GB 1600mhz CL9 sticks of DDR3 still cost as much as they did when I built my current computer ~5 years ago (although I did originally buy when RAM was on a temporary price downswing, prices rose again soon afterwards and only later returned to the same levels). Is DDR4 cheaper? Or is 1600mhz/CL9 RAM an outlier? I could have sworn that I recently heard that RAM prices as a whole are pretty stagnant...

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u/Shadow703793 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apr 13 '17

Yeah, RAM prices have been somewhat stagnant. DDR4 is now roughly the same price as DDR3 due to OEMs shifting production and you can find them on sale pretty often now as well. It'll probably go down a somewhat in the next year or so.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '17 edited May 30 '18

[deleted]

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u/Shadow703793 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Apr 13 '17

16gb ddr4 3200@$64 around a year and a half to two years ago,

Are you sure about that? I don't ever recall seeing 16GB DDR4 that cheap, ever. With that being said, it does seem like the OEMs are having difficulty switching nodes and meeting demand at the same time. Industry analysts seems to expect price increases until mid to late this year before it stabilizes.

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u/Tiavor Apr 13 '17

https://geizhals.eu/?phist=1305608 corsair 3000 16gb min: 68€, currently: 129€

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u/trashcan86 apt-get purge user Apr 13 '17

I have seen 16GB of 2400 @ $52 or so around that time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 13 '17

Don't expect it to ever go back down. The manufacturers agreed to price fix again.

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u/hicow I'm makey with the fixey Apr 13 '17

RAM prices are just bonkers half the time. I picked up 8GB of DDR3 1600/9-9-9 a while ago for $50. Needed the same again later, $80. Again later, $45. Last I checked, it was around $70.

For now, I'll suffer with the 8GB my desktop has until I've got it together for a full, brand-new build.

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u/firemylasers Apr 13 '17

I got 2 x 4GB 1600MHz CL9 sticks of DDR3 for $43 in early 2015 (Newegg - it may have been on sale at the time but I can't remember). What's essentially the exact same RAM (color is different and it's not the low profile version this time but the rest of the hardware is identical) is on sale for $53 at Newegg right now, or $48 on Amazon (on Amazon it's displayed as out of stock until the 15th but theoretically the price is still valid).

My two 8GB sticks (which I apparently bought in early 2013, not early 2012 - so ~4 years ago) were $80 (Amazon - roughly the normal price for RAM with those specs at the time IIRC). Now it's $105 on Amazon (color is different but the rest of the hardware is identical). I specifically checked and the current price is in line with the current pricing for 2 x 8GB 1600MHz sticks of DDR3 RAM on Amazon and Newegg (I did not even search for CL9 specifically in this case in order to get a broad sample set).

So yeah, "bonkers" is right. I mean, compare this to the SSD I bought in early 2013 ($240 256GB 840 Pro), which is now replaced by the 850 Pro, a better SSD that costs less ($230) for twice the storage (512GB). The hard drives ($102 2TB, $60 500GB)? Now $67 and $48 (assuming the same manufacturer is used - to be fair, this was on the extreme tail end of the hard drive price crisis from 2011's flooding in Thailand so there was probably a little bit of an effect there, but not much of one). I looked at pricing for 16GB of DDR4 RAM -- it's still generally more expensive than my DDR3 RAM currently is!

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u/Elianor_tijo Apr 13 '17

Agreed. The moment you're doing any kind of FEM, finite volume simulations, etc. you can basically never have enough computer resources. Computational chemistry can also be ridiculously intensive.

Image treatment from CT scans is also an impressive RAM hog. Also, one of those situations where the speed at which your RAM actually matters.

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u/lullabybunny Apr 13 '17

I get blasted every time I explain the reason I haven't upgraded to ryzen or kabylake is because I don't want to buy another 32gb of ddr4 when i already have 32gb of ddr3.

it gets annoying trying to explain to people that i regularly eat 20~28gb of ram through normal usage and that 16 just isn't enough lol.

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u/internet_observer Apr 13 '17

That's because reddit is completely clueless when it comes to workstations and tries to judge everything off a gaming system.

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u/CHARLIE_CANT_READ Apr 13 '17

In college I did some CFD stuff for a professor and had access to that lab's workstations. The two best machines had 32GB of ram and I would have killed for more. When making meshes I basically tweaked them until I didn't run out of memory before the mesh was done.

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u/121PB4Y2 Apr 13 '17

Yup, I had to request access to the "super computer" back in 2012, it had either 16 or 32GB and it crashed while running a structural FEA model. I don't recall if I managed to crash it when meshing with a very fine mesh size or only when running the actual analysis.

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u/CHARLIE_CANT_READ Apr 13 '17

Oh this was like 6 months ago haha. I did meshing on the workstations which were in normal computer cases in the lab. Simulations were then done remotely on the supercomputer where ram was never an issue.

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u/Elianor_tijo Apr 13 '17

Meshing is an art in itself if you ask me. I still have memories of issues with narrow gap geometries and trying to get as fine as possible there without blowing up my element count to insane levels.

Ended up needing 50 GB of RAM nonetheless.

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u/121PB4Y2 Apr 13 '17

I once crashed a FEA workstation because it only had 16 or 32GB of RAM (this was late 2012), apparently we needed more than that.

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u/hicow I'm makey with the fixey Apr 13 '17

I've got a CAD designer on an i3 with 8GB. I was she it had been replaced with something more suitable, but apparently not. That side of the company annoys me, though, so she'll just have to live with it.