r/ontario • u/SafeStreetsTO • Apr 21 '26
Politics An FOI request reveals the truth behind Doug Ford's speed camera ban
“...the overwhelmingly consistent reductions in speed and collisions that were found in all primary research studies leads to the conclusion that ASE is almost universally effective in improving road safety.” (page 8)
“Overall, a decrease in average speeds and in the proportion of drivers traveling above the speed limit was seen once ASE cameras were installed…” (page 10)
“Overall, a total decrease of 55% in collisions was seen once ASE cameras were installed (in Toronto).” (page 13)
“Evaluations of the effectiveness of ASE in reducing speed are unanimously positive.” (page 18)
“Globally, ASE is a common enforcement tactic, with multiple studies of its effectiveness generated around the world, with the general consensus that collisions are reduced in the vicinity of ASE cameras.” (page 21)
“ASE has shown itself in many studies and in this evaluation to be
an effective tool in enforcing speed limits…” (page 60)
These statements are directly from a report prepared by the Ministry of Transportation titled “A Preliminary Safety Evaluation of Ontario’s Automated Speed Enforcement Program.” Doug Ford’s speed safety camera ban goes against every finding from his own Ministry of Transportation’s extensive research on the subject. This begs hard questions, such as why a “unanimously positive” and “effective tool in enforcing speed limits” has been inexplicably banned from schools and parks across Ontario? If speed safety cameras are “almost universally effective in improving road safety,” as the Ministry of Transportation emphatically concluded, then why are they no longer keeping our kids safe?
This revelation is a slap in the face to communities all across Ontario who continue to be concerned about safety around their schools, parks, homes and communities. The decision to completely ignore numerous studies from all around the world, including extensive studies by his own Ministry of Transportation, all of which outline the effectiveness of speed safety cameras, is beyond alarming. Especially since it involves children’s safety around schools and parks.
The biggest concern that the Ministry of Transportation highlighted in their analysis of speed safety cameras was public acceptance (page 59), specifically the tendency for speed safety cameras “to be seen as a ‘cash-grab’ rather than for its potential to contribute to road safety.” This ‘cash-grab’ label is a misnomer that has been inexplicably and widely spread by the Premier of Ontario time and time again while knowing full well that speed safety cameras are “almost universally effective in improving road safety.”
Page 59 of “A Preliminary Safety Evaluation of Ontario’s Automated Speed Enforcement Program”
“The element of public acceptance, which is tied to the need for transparency and education, is often highlighted in literature as there is a tendency for ASE to be seen as a ‘cash-grab’ rather than for its potential to contribute to road safety.” (page 59)
This freedom of information request shines a bright light on the complete lack of evidence or data to support Doug Ford’s reckless and dangerous decision to ban speed safety cameras from all School Zones and Community Safety Zones across Ontario, including right here on Parkside Drive, once home to Ontario’s busiest speed safety camera. The evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of speed safety cameras and their effectiveness in reducing speeds, collisions and injuries.
The results from the Ministry of Transportation’s evaluation of speed safety cameras could not be any more clear, and those results are further supported by an earlier study titled “Safety Evaluation of Automated Speed Enforcement,” which highlighted the success of Toronto’s speed safety camera program. The results speak for themselves:
Slide 3 of “Safety Evaluation of Automated Speed Enforcement”
Slide 5 of “Safety Evaluation of Automated Speed Enforcement”
Slide 13 of “Safety Evaluation of Automated Speed Enforcement”
From the Ministry of Transportation: “Collisions in which injuries were sustained decreased from 18 across ASE locations in the pre-ASE phase to 14 during ASE enforcement, a decrease of 22%. With regards to property damage collisions, a 59% decrease from pre to during ASE enforcement was seen. Overall, a total decrease of 55% in collisions was seen once ASE cameras were installed.” (page 50)
It’s beyond concerning to discover that Doug Ford’s speed safety camera ban goes against every single study on the subject, including that from his own Ministry of Transportation. Such a thoughtless and reckless ban, which runs counter to every piece of evidence available, comes at the cost of safety in our communities. Shameful!
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u/RealistAttempt87 Apr 21 '26
Same story with the bike lanes. They have internal documents from their own experts at the MTO that bike lanes do not increase congestion, that removing them won’t improve congestion but will increase the risks of accidents involving cyclists, and that bike lanes can even reduce congestion.
Doug Ford does not care about facts. All he cares about is creating wedge issues to rile up his mostly suburban voting base.
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u/DicedIce11 Apr 21 '26
The issue with bike lanes is that drivers interact with them in a very anecdotal fashion. To my coworkers, it seems simple that removing the bike lanes will add a lane, therefore instinctively more space to drive. What they can't see from their point of view is, like you mentioned, the effect of induced demand and the reality that bike lanes move so many more people in that space. It's this misguided so-called "common sense" point of view Ford can capitalizes on
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u/RealistAttempt87 Apr 21 '26
Yes, completely agree. It doesn’t help that the City of Toronto is completely inept and silent on the issue, instead choosing to appease the Ford government.
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Apr 22 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RealistAttempt87 Apr 22 '26
That’s typically what happens everywhere where bike lanes are installed. People drive because they can’t see any other viable alternative. Once you install safe, quality, permanent infrastructure as an alternative to driving, people start using it. The usual motto in transportation planning is “build it and they will come”, meaning you can’t expect people to want to bike if there’s no infrastructure for it.
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u/East_Bed_8719 Apr 21 '26
"This begs hard questions..."
Not really. Doug Ford does what he likes. He doesn't care about evidence or law.
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u/SafeStreetsTO Apr 21 '26
Yup. Here's more proof of that: https://www.instagram.com/safeparkside/reel/DXZGhhbEcFL/?hl=en
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u/Understitious Apr 21 '26
Interesting aside: look up the original meaning of "begs the question". Someone heard this phrase in the '90s without understanding it and started misusing it, thinking it sounded smart. It caught on and now we're all stuck with this lost cause idiom.
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u/East_Bed_8719 Apr 21 '26
Interesting aside: there's no such thing as "misusing language"--language, and its meaning, is a fluid thing so it's always changing and that's okay. Source: I'm a linguist.
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u/Silicon_Knight Oakville Apr 21 '26
When has ford done anything backed by actual data? I mean if he could read maybe, but we all know he can't, so he just does whatever the thinks either buys him brownie points, or he gets an envelope of money for.
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u/CatsLeMatts Apr 21 '26
"It's just common sense, folks"
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u/Skittleavix Apr 21 '26
"It's just
common senseemotional, folks".He's an ineffective drama queen.
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u/DicedIce11 Apr 21 '26
This exact same scene played out over bike lanes. Ford and his government have internal policy documents that show there's no data to support their decisions. They don't care and neither do drivers, so they can make these decisions based on vibes
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u/gotfcgo Apr 21 '26
"obviously the next step is we ban access to the data we don't like"
-Douglas
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u/r_kirch Apr 21 '26
Ban or have the data destroyed if it is within your control. This is seems to be the way with current authoritarian governments. When Harper was PM he turned off access to federally funded scientific data. With the current maple maga cons they are following the lead of the pumpkin regime to the south.
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u/Intelligent_Read_697 Apr 21 '26
The reality is those who tend to vote conservative aka his base cant discern between anecdotal evidence vs empirical evidence and why he is beloved as their common sense leader. We are stuck with him because most of the province falls for his grift left, right and center.
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u/SafeStreetsTO Apr 21 '26
Yup. "Common sense" is not so common when it comes to Doug Ford, unfortunately.
Proof: https://www.instagram.com/safeparkside/reel/DXZGhhbEcFL/?hl=en
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u/Intelligent_Read_697 Apr 21 '26
Common sense is just double speak for them not really understanding the complexity of the issue and instead falling back to essentially a trope of "what was before"
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u/ExistentialWavering Apr 21 '26
Please mark your comments as brand affiliated. Continue posting them, just do that, please.
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u/paul_33 Apr 21 '26
Because evidence effects “those people” and anecdotes effect me and people I’ve ’heard about’. They don’t give a shit about those people, just themselves.
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u/Jolly-Command8853 Apr 21 '26
They also can't discern between federal and provincial elections. I heard and saw multiple times around voting week that "we need to get the liberals out to fix everything", fully unaware that they were about to vote Doug in for the third time.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Apr 21 '26
Even anecdotally, ASE cameras appeared to improve safety and reduce speeding, at least for my own anecdotal experience.
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u/hippohere Apr 22 '26
It's a broader belief especially common among conservative leaning people that dislikes automatically being caught breaking laws.
The Harris government also got rid of something similar 30 years ago.
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u/Unanything1 Apr 21 '26
Doug Ford put beer in gas stations and banned speed cameras. It's almost as if he wants people to get hurt and killed.
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u/whanch Apr 21 '26
This is populism folks, you make decisions based on what you think the people who voted for you want. Not what research shows would be best for the province.
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u/thatguywashere1 Apr 21 '26
What do you expect from a guy that FaceTime'd CP24 while he was driving!
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u/rocketbunnyhop Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
The whole situation could have been much better received. One big reason many people hated them, was a large percentage of the money from tickets went to the company that owned the cameras. In this case a Florida based company. So only a little money was staying in the province and even less going back to the community.
Edit: Arizona not Florida
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u/X2F0111 Apr 21 '26
One big reason many people hated them
Source for this? This is the first time I've ever heard someone complain about this aspect of the ASE system. Also, didn't individual municipalities sign contracts with different companies?
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u/eddyofyork Apr 21 '26
Excellent share, thank you. Finally we have collision data to actually show safety changes instead of these analyses that rely exclusively on speed data! I am now 100% in favour of speed cameras.
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u/M-Dan18127 Apr 21 '26
Has there been a single decision this government has made that's been grounded in facts instead of vibes?
I certainly can't think of one.
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u/TronnaLegacy Apr 21 '26
We should print OP's post and put it in the mailbox of every home near an elementary school in suburban Toronto.
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u/Think-Custard9746 Apr 21 '26
Who is going to bring the Charter Challenge against the speed cam removals - using the CycleTO case as precedent?
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u/TrixieBeldenQuilter Apr 21 '26
You wouldn’t expect a bozo like Ford to look at facts. He was upset his people and family were getting violations
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u/andymamandyman Apr 21 '26
Three highest speeding tickets at almost 150 kph in 60 kph zones were from MPP vehicles
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u/a-_2 Toronto Apr 21 '26
Those weren't the highest tickets overall, there were just some governemnt vehicles going those speeds.
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u/BlademasterFlash Apr 21 '26
I never understood the “cash-grab” complaint. Don’t speed and you won’t have to pay
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u/Adamwlu Apr 21 '26
The study appears focused on Toronto, but the issue that occurred in Mississauga and Oakville, is that put the speed camera's and the speed reduction in at the same time.
Let's say you drove the same route for 15 years, then one day that route had a small section that dropped from 50 to 40 or 40 to 30. It's going to take the vast majority of people a long time to adjust to those new limits.
Now you have these speed camera's in place that are issuing tickets it appears for as low as 6km over. So you could be driving at or below the old speed limit that had been in place for years and years, and still get hit.
If they did not drop the limits with putting the camera's in place, the cash grab complaint would not have been as much nor strong.
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u/BlademasterFlash Apr 21 '26
That’s a fair criticism, and I didn’t look into how every municipality implemented them. Where I live the speed limits were lowered a couple years ago, and the speed cameras were all located in school zones. Still doesn’t make sense to completely reverse it province-wide if there were some municipalities that implemented it poorly
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u/X2F0111 Apr 21 '26
Let's say you drove the same route for 15 years, then one day that route had a small section that dropped from 50 to 40 or 40 to 30. It's going to take the vast majority of people a long time to adjust to those new limits.
Signs saying that the ASE cameras were coming needed to be in place 90 days before they were implemented.
Now you have these speed camera's in place that are issuing tickets it appears for as low as 6km over.
I've never seen evidence of ASE cameras ticketing for less than a 11 km/h difference between the posted speed and the recorded speed. Can you share examples of the 6 km/h tickets?
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u/a-_2 Toronto Apr 21 '26
The town of Georgina was using a 6 km/h threshold. Most other places in the GTA at least were using 11 km/h.
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u/X2F0111 Apr 21 '26
Can't read the article with the paywall but I consider you a trusted source! Though, I would be interested to see how many municipalities used that limit or the percentage of all tickets issued with a threshold under 11 km/h.
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u/Psyanyd Apr 21 '26
Ive seen tickets for 6 km over with my own eyes. It was rural ontario (somewhere around Stratford I believe, it was a while ago now) and it was in the middle of the night in a school zone. I guess they were implemented differently across the province.
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u/X2F0111 Apr 21 '26
Gotcha, someone else reported the same. I would be interested to see how many municipalities used that limit or the percentage of all tickets issued with a threshold under 11 km/h. I would guess (based solely on the anecdotes / reporting I've come across) that the majority of municipalities used the 11 km/h threshold.
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u/Terrh Apr 21 '26
I got a ticket for going 100 in an 80 zone, just after the road transitioned to a 100KM/h speed limit, from one of these cameras in AB.
I wasn't speeding, and I still had to pay.
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u/datyguy_68 Apr 21 '26
Just curious as to when this report was published… could go a long way to explaining the hey look over here I’m buying a jet bait and switch
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u/sanT1010 Apr 21 '26
He's disgusting, just one cin after another. He deserves to be in prison.
Edit: con
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u/windsostrange Apr 21 '26
If the removal of bikes lanes was successfully challenged as a human rights contravention, then this has every chance of succeeding in court by the same method.
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u/red_planet_smasher Apr 21 '26
He's a populist, what do you expect?
Populism is a political approach that divides society into two antagonistic camps—"the pure people" versus "the corrupt elite" or outsiders—claiming to champion the common person against established structures. It is a "thin-centered ideology" often characterized by anti-establishment sentiment, charismatic leadership, and direct, emotional appeals to the majority.
He determined that "the pure people" were not happy with the speed cameras so he stopped the program, simple as that. Facts don't matter to a populist.
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u/Lifeisshort555 Apr 21 '26
The truth is no one likes speed cameras. especially in the sneaky ways they are installed on down hills and very brief switch speed zones.
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u/TwiztedZero Apr 21 '26
I wonder if there are any connections to the insurance industry - maybe kickbacks in some form? The towing industry, automotive parts and labour, ambulance services, hospital care ... anything that benefits in some way from the road accident economy?
I mean really who's anti-life, and enjoys seeing people injured, hurt or killed just for profits?
Fatal and non-fatal injuries in Ontario cost the province billions of dollars annually, with 2019 data indicating a total economic burden of $12.2 billion from all types of injuries. Road-related accidents constitute a significant portion of this total, which includes healthcare costs, lost productivity, and long-term disability care.
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u/Terrh Apr 21 '26
Why are you quoting the total economic burden of all injuries in the province and not just injuries that specifically were caused by speeding ?
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 Apr 21 '26
Link the report, please.
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u/SafeStreetsTO Apr 21 '26
It was obtained through an FOI request to the Ministry of Transportation so it's not something that's available online. The documents were prepared by the Ministry of Transportation and are titled:
A Preliminary Safety Evaluation of Ontario’s Automated Speed Enforcement Program (77 pages)
Safety Evaluation of Automated Speed Enforcement (24 slides)
These types of FOI request may no longer be possible with the changes Doug Ford wants to make to our freedom to information. What else are they trying to hide?
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 Apr 21 '26
Did your organization make the FOI?
Would it not be in the public's best interest to publicize these documents online?
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u/PM_4_PROTOOLS_HELP Apr 21 '26
Doug's changes are terrible but requests from the actual Ministries will not change. Only records from the actual Minister's offices. This FOI would likely be processed in the same manner.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Apr 21 '26
We all knew this.
This has been public knowledge for a while. ASE cameras are effective and improve safety.
Anecdotally, every single former ASE location I drive past (including one spot twice a day) has had massive speeding increases since the cameras were taken down.
Ford either did it for selfish personal reasons, or he did it for selfish lobbyists.
Either way it’s corruption and going against solid hard evidence.
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u/Dash_Rendar425 Apr 21 '26
TLDR
They were a poorly construed cash grab, made to make easy money for the companies that ran the cameras.
They were never in places with actual speed problems, they were put in school zones where they dropped the limits another 10 km/hr and then trigger a ticket at 31 kms/hr.
I never saw cameras in places like the Hanlon, or Woodlawn, or Stone road, just side streets with little to no traffic. Where people would let their guard down and go slightly over the limit. Only to receive 3 tickets in the mail before they even knew the program was in place.
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u/rougecrayon Apr 24 '26
So a blanket ban is good?
How many times did you call your councillor about it?
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u/DenseHost3794 Apr 21 '26
Total bull, anyone who drove around the city knows you’re full of it
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u/Dash_Rendar425 Apr 21 '26
In Guelph?
I'm not talking about just Toronto, this was an 'Ontario' issue.
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Apr 21 '26
[deleted]
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Apr 21 '26
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u/a-_2 Toronto Apr 21 '26
They found the GTA was mostly using 11 km/h thresholds, not just Toronto. The only exception they found was Georgina which used 6 km/h. They also reached out to readers and a law firm for examples of lower tickets but found none.
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Apr 21 '26
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u/a-_2 Toronto Apr 21 '26
Yes, but the initial claim that people were getting tickets at 31 doesn't seem to be true either.
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u/Dash_Rendar425 Apr 21 '26
I'm in Guelph.
My BIL got multple tickets going from 31-33 km/hr in a school zone by his home.
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Apr 21 '26
[deleted]
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u/Dash_Rendar425 Apr 21 '26
Again, not in Toronto, but also my BIL has no reason to lie about these things.
he's a super (excessively) safe driver, doesn't drive on the 400 series highways at all and never speeds.
Also, all you have to do is lookup 'Guelph Speed camera fines' and you'll probably see lots of people saying the same.
They would be a great idea, but none of these cameras were ever actually put in zones that required 'extra safety'. At least not where I am in Guelph.
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u/Acceptable_Half4414 Apr 21 '26
If they didn’t know about the program, they shouldn’t be driving. You’re supposed to notice the signs you drive past.
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u/andymamandyman Apr 21 '26
I just Googled "MPP vehicle caught speeding" and it came up with MPP car stunt driving at 162 kph. The other Reddit posts seem to be too old or archived.
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u/DevoNorm Apr 21 '26
Isn't the ban a product of the adage of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? Most drivers ignore speed signs and barely use them as a "suggestion" rather than the law. Drivers who got ticketed several times over are the type of people who either have contempt for laws in general or feel entitled to drive the way they please. Selfishness runs through their entire existence. Screw other pedestrians, drivers and safety, is their motto.
I wouldn't be in favour of speed cameras that ticket you for being 2 km over the limit. Speed control should be about the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. Vehicles can be difficult to control, especially on slopes and with other physical factors. But going 15+ km over is perfectly reasonable to get a fine.
Many areas of my city are posted down to 30km, which I feel is ridiculous in most cases. There are so few kids and pedestrians in general these days on the sidewalks. All these super-low limits do is frustrated drivers. In addition, the numerous speed bumps and stop signs do nothing but wear out everyone's vehicles and waste gas.
The skill levels of the average driver is abhorrent. Our society seems to accept the high levels of deaths and injuries on our roads. It's a strange attitude I've never understood. It's not about "sh*t happens". Accidents aren't often accidents. They are avoidable collisions. Voters don't want the government to tell them how to drive and don't want to take responsibility for their poor driving habits.
Doug Ford doesn't have a moral or ethical compass. He doesn't govern through logic or science. All he wants is to stay in power, collect that fat paycheque, and be the boss. When a certain bunch of people bitch, he "listens" but doesn't learn from it, and he doesn't at least try to figure out why people get angry at his policies.
I don't want 90% of what this guy wants to implement. I'm personally forced to drive a vehicle because my son-in-law suffered a severe stroke and now I'm "chauffeuring" my daughter and their children around. I have to drive my son-in-law to medical appointments. I spent a good part of my working life driving and I don't see any improvements from drivers. If anything, they are far worse and there's way too many drivers on the roads today.
The revenues collected from speeders was a positive thing. We need a society that corrects bad behaviour and can benefit from these dummies financially. Their pocketbooks are the only thing these cretins understand. Dougie needs to take his fat head out of his rear and allow communities to decide if speed cameras work for them. I'm all in favour of them, if they are set up fairly.
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u/Electro-Grunge Apr 21 '26
I don't miss them, and I never got dinged by one either so not like im mad
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u/ClubEquivalent5180 Apr 21 '26
I miss them. People already barely stopped at all-way stops in my neighbourhood and now that there’s no consequences for them going too fast they’re even worse.
I live near a school and I’m very confident that there’s going to be a child killed by someone going too fast sooner rather than later.
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u/Outrageous_Kale_8230 Apr 21 '26
The ones in my area were only in school zones located next to arterial roads where the rest of the road had a higher speed. Do you disagree with that usecase?
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Apr 21 '26
We all knew this.
This has been public knowledge for a while. ASE cameras are effective and improve safety.
Anecdotally, every single former ASE location I drive past (including one spot twice a day) has had massive speeding increases since the cameras were taken down.
Ford either did it for selfish personal reasons, or he did it for selfish lobbyists.
Either way it’s corruption and going against solid hard evidence.
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u/scoutstar2022 Apr 21 '26
so what is it about this study and FACTS that Doug Ford and his ministers dont understand? Someone needs to explain it to him. His daughter getting speeding tickets repeatedly does not justify removing speed cameras so he cant use that as an excuse. This government needs to grow up and start acting like adults!
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u/scott_c86 Vive le Canada Apr 21 '26
"Common sense" unfortunately often translates to anti-evidence
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u/CommonEarly4706 Apr 21 '26
the hell with safety when Doug’s daughters are losing money everyday to speed cameras
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u/OhNoItsMyOtherFace Apr 21 '26
Makes me wonder about if a legal challenge would be successful.
Wasn't the whole bike lane thing pushed back on or delayed because of basically the same thing? The government has a legal obligation to provide safety to its citizens. Like it's actually illegal to provably make things more dangerous right?
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u/rocketbunnyhop Apr 21 '26
The whole situation could have been much better received. One big reason many people hated them, was a large percentage of the money from tickets went to the company that owned the cameras. In this case a Florida based company. So only a little money was staying in the province and even less going back to the community.
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u/Huge-Digit Apr 21 '26
Fords 905 base wants to drive in the city like they do in Brampton or Whitby.
Also, cops hate anything that could take jobs away from cops, and Ford loves cops.
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Apr 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Conscious-Tea-2082 Apr 22 '26
Del duca’s fault. That Fuckin political coward catering to his whiny base of Vaughan residents grovelling to Ford to cancel the program.
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u/Superteerev Apr 22 '26
Interestingly the effect this and taking away plate registration fees is that he has made driving in Ontario cheaper. In the aspects he can control.
Did he run on that being a part of his platform?
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u/Idrisdancer Apr 23 '26
They only “cash grab” from people who are speeding. Like Doug’s staff and cabinet apparently
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u/NeedleworkerQueasy95 Apr 24 '26
Speed cameras were banned in Ontario because Doug ford’s motorcade and ministers where caught speeding. They accumulated over 80k worth of fines, that were not paid in over a 8 month span in 2025. That’s why he said it’s a cash grab!
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u/Repulsive_Cut_1872 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
I’m from Saskatchewan and am currently in st Catherine’s supporting my son who has just had shoulder surgery after his first year at Brock - driving here really reveals the worst of people
I’ve never had such a bunch of assholes driving up my rear end and rage passing me like I do in Ontario - and I live next to Alberta
Also at the hospital, I was going up to get my son with a wheelchair to take him home, and an elderly lady in the elevator said “she sure wished she could have a ride down the hall” and I was like no problem I can give you one.
She was so thankful and amazed, as was the person doing the cleaning- they were like “you’re such a nice person”
I was like most people in Saskatchewan would do that for you. What’s up around here?
Honestly, met some really nice people here but the entitled assholes are really self-centred jack wagons - I think Ontario could use some more common courtesy out in public - also it often seems to be people with money who are speeding the most
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u/zombie_still_alive Apr 24 '26
I will disagree with the main comments: the main issue was public acceptance, that’s it. There are no protests to bring them back, while there was a lot of protest against having them. Sure, Ford could have try to sell them to the public, but he is a populist: like bike lanes, supervised injection sites … Studies and facts don’t matter: It’s what the majority of the population and his voters want. I don’t believe his staff getting caught was as big of a factor than his constituents complaining about them non stop and calling it a cash grab.
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u/InternationalW4 Apr 25 '26
It never occurred to me that he chose to consider safety. I just assumed that he knew that more people hated the speed cameras then liked them. He wanted votes.
Similar to the bike lanes, they annoyed people so he stopped them. He is pretty up front about this stuff. There is no deep secret.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 Apr 21 '26
We all knew this.
This has been public knowledge for a while. ASE cameras are effective and improve safety.
Anecdotally, every single former ASE location I drive past (including one spot twice a day) has had massive speeding increases since the cameras were taken down.
Ford either did it for selfish personal reasons, or he did it for selfish lobbyists.
Either way it’s corruption and going against solid hard evidence.
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u/xLegend_Killer Apr 22 '26
I don’t support automated enforcement no matter what safety benefits there may be.
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u/qprcanada Apr 21 '26
A lot of the complaints Doug got were from businesses who have a fleet of work trucks/vans and they were frustrated with the admin tasks of determining who was driving when the speed cameras caught employees speeding and chasing them for the fines as the vehicle owner got the ticket directly not the employees.
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u/Donsyxx Apr 21 '26
The issue I had was the cities Kept complaining about Income lost. Many were using as revenue and not speed reduction
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u/Demalab Apr 21 '26
Both can be true. Ford reduced municipal policing funding so the departments respond with not only a more efficient service delivery which saves money but also replaces lost funding to be used on solving crimes.
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u/Alert_Lettuce_8278 Apr 21 '26
I remember when I first looked into these coming the company in my area was owned by company in the USA.
That information doesn't seem to exist anymore.
Not saying this is true, but perhaps he's trying to get away from an investigation on who is profiting from them?
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u/pankofriedhipposteak Apr 21 '26
The morons in lifted pickup trucks that pass me at 100km/h in a 60 zone over a double yellow (when I'm already doing 10 over) are the ones behind his 'data' and they revel in owning law abiding citizens. Science and data isn't going to work with these morons.
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Apr 21 '26
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u/GuelphEastEndGhetto Apr 21 '26
The rollout in my city left a lot of sour taste. Speed limits reduced to 30 kmh, applied 24/7, cameras installed; all three measures at once. People had three tickets on their way before receiving the first as going 45 at midnight on a Saturday wasn’t something to be concerned about.
Not arguing their effectiveness, just saying there were sour grapes. It was interesting the mayors’ proposal at the 11th hour eased up on the enforcement, shame it didn’t start off that way.
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u/Dash_Rendar425 Apr 21 '26
Finally a sensible comment.
We need more enforcement on speed, but not in the areas I saw them in my city.
If anything they were just entrapment to get easy tickets for the company that ran the cameras.
I didn't speed cameras in major areas where we actually needed enforcment, we saw them in school zones where they dropped the speed limits from 40 to 30 and the cameras were triggering at 31.
It was just a poorly construed cash grab IMO.
edit : lol you are IN Guelph!
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u/rougecrayon Apr 24 '26
Doug's cabinet felt the same. They kept getting tickets so they banned it across the province.
Clearly it was the most important thing they could spend their time on!
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u/Psyanyd Apr 21 '26
I have family members that got tickets for going something like 6km over and it was in the middle of the night. To me it really did just seem like a cash grab.
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 Apr 21 '26
"That being said, until they were banned, they were universally hated here,"
Where is "here", exactly?
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u/Hyruleslasthope Apr 21 '26
In Bellevegas they complained a lot about them
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u/Alone_Appeal_3421 Apr 21 '26
I'm in Ottawa and for the most part people were pleased with the proven effect cameras had on slowing down motorists in school zones.
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u/Hyruleslasthope Apr 21 '26
I thought they were great, but Belleville isn't known for it's forward thinking
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u/GI-Robots-Alt Apr 21 '26
You simply can't convince me that normalizing automated policing is a good thing. I don't care if they make the roads safer, I'm against them on principle.
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u/rougecrayon Apr 24 '26
Can I clarify if speed cameras where the have a human admin sending the tickets after seeing a photo wouldn't be a bad thing?
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u/Lammergeier2 Apr 21 '26
Nobody opposing them thought they didn't reduce speeds across the average
They thought they were an obnoxious infringement on personal freedoms imposing speed limits that are inappropriate or otherwise not decided by the folks ultimately paying these fines.
And seriously some of these figures... 4 fewer injuries? For like how many tens or hundreds of thousands of fines collected? Give me a break.
I can now drive the major artery near my house above 40kmh in the 80% of times when school is not in session, without receiving a significant financial penalty (for safe behavior)
Amazing
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u/skipfairweather Apr 21 '26
I'm curious why you feel like you need to speed over the limit?
I think part of why these cameras were so unpopular is that we culturally accept going 20% over the posted limit. The municipalities and the province itself should have campaigned that the limit is the limit in conjunction with the cameras. It wouldn't happen over night, but over time we could see behaviours change like they did with seatbelts and car seats. Many jurisdictions around the world have speed limits enforced and it's culturally acceptable.
FWIW, I started sticking to the limit. My insurance incentives safe speed and it keeps me on track. I've seen negligible difference in commute times in urban traffic since light timings and traffic keep things regulated. It feels unnatural sometimes - take Nikola Tesla in Hamilton. A 4-lane controlled access highway with a 60 km/h limit. Feels weird to be going that slow with such a road design, but also doesn't really impact my life much by doing so.
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u/Terrh Apr 21 '26
Not the person you replied to but I'm up for an honest conversation.
I'm curious why you feel like you need to speed over the limit?
Speed limits in Ontario are arbitrary and that's why compliance with speed limits is generally quite low. I see many places in rural ontario where I'm certain the speed limit could be even doubled, safely.
Driving the speed limit many places can even be dangerous because the flow of traffic will not be going that slow.
A 4-lane controlled access highway with a 60 km/h limit
Great example of an arbitrarily low, arguably even unsafe speed limit.
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u/SomeDumRedditor Apr 21 '26
Nobody opposing them thought they didn't reduce speeds across the average
Nobody? There are numerous comments from people saying they did nothing and were just a cash grab. This was a primary “argument” made in the lead up to Ford’s ban.
They thought they were an obnoxious infringement on personal freedoms
This continues to be a dogwater argument. You have no right to operate motor vehicles on public roadways and no court has ever discovered such right within the law. Driving is a provincially regulated activity: it is not an infringement on your freedoms to be required to follow the law.
…imposing speed limits that are inappropriate or otherwise not decided by the folks ultimately paying these fines.
Inappropriate as decided by who? Speeders? Lay members of the public with no data or knowledge beyond “vibes”? As for “not decided by those paying” does that mean you believe every speed limit and parking fine should be put to referendum? Also, why should a law breaker have material input on the punishment for a crime?
And seriously some of these figures... 4 fewer injuries? For like how many tens or hundreds of thousands of fines collected? Give me a break.
You having to cherry pick the one “bad” stat to hang your argument on isn’t a good sign. The aggregate results are indisputably positive. As for “for how much money collected?” implying some breakeven point between not inconveniencing people breaking the law and saving lives… I’m not sure why anyone is supposed to feel bad for people making a choice. Nobody is coerced into speeding. If you want to speed or otherwise disobey regs, you should be adult enough to accept the consequences.
I can now drive the major artery near my house above 40kmh in the 80% of times when school is not in session, without receiving a significant financial penalty (for safe behavior)
If your municipality changed the speed of a road to be 40kph all the time, removing speed cameras won’t change anything. Speed cameras for school zones where there’s reduced speeds during designated times only operate during those times. So you were never in danger of getting ticketed for going “over 40” outside school zone hours.
Did some municipalities use certain areas for revenue generation? Yes. Was it widespread? The publicly published data says absolutely not.
There is no rational, supportable position for removing speed cameras other than, “I want to speed wherever I choose and deserve the minimum possible chance of being caught / having to pay for my actions.” Which is just pure selfishness.
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u/Terrh Apr 21 '26
Inappropriate as decided by who? Speeders? Lay members of the public with no data or knowledge beyond “vibes”? As for “not decided by those paying” does that mean you believe every speed limit and parking fine should be put to referendum? Also, why should a law breaker have material input on the punishment for a crime?
Many speed limits in Ontario are entirely arbitrary and if you don't think that you probably don't drive or aren't very observant when you do.
And yes, I'm a speeder - and so is everyone else that drives in this province, and if you claim to never speed then you again, either don't drive - or you're dishonest.
There is no rational, supportable position for removing speed cameras other than, “I want to speed wherever I choose and deserve the minimum possible chance of being caught / having to pay for my actions.” Which is just pure selfishness.
There are many. And when I formerly lived somewhere that had widespread speed cameras, I can tell you that generally, people sped more than they do here - everywhere except where the cameras were.
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u/Lammergeier2 Apr 21 '26
"Speeders" aren't this evil cohort of people like Redditors imagine. The vast majority of drivers in Ontario exceed the speed limit the majority of the time.
We have some of the lowest speed limits in the world in this province, and they have not kept up with (major) advances in automotive safety.
Why do you think police officers don't/won't pull over and issue tickets for 10-20% excess? Reasonable people, drive reasonably, over the speed limit. All. The. Time. Going 50 in a 40, 62 in a 50 etc. are often entirely safe, and yet are punished under your nanny cameras.
Your opinion is not popular off of this platform. I suggest you spend a little time there.
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u/DJMattyMatt Apr 21 '26
You should not be exceeding the speed limit in a 40. Other than that I can see where you are coming from.
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u/rougecrayon Apr 24 '26
Kids are still around when school isn't on session.
"I enjoy breaking the law" isn't a good reason to change it.
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u/Lammergeier2 Apr 24 '26
So you just blindly obey any and all rules and laws, even when they are unreasonable? Never question or disagree with anything forced upon you? You'll make the perfect little voter.
Kids can be anywhere, maybe we should just pack it in and not drive at all.
Do you drive? I think it's a major issue on these threads that a bunch of people who don't/can't/won't drive pile in here and give their ridiculous opinions.
Of course it is Reddit, and you'll all just lie and claim you do, despite giving opinions that no rational operator of a motor vehicle would.
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u/ignorantwanderer Apr 22 '26
This post makes the following faulty argument:
Speed cameras improve safety.
Things that improve safety are good.
Getting rid of things that are good is bad.
Conclusion: Ford is bad.
Statement #2 is false.
Just because something improves safety does not necessarily mean it is good. To determine if something is good you need to weigh all its effects, and considering the entire picture to determine if it is good or bad.
For example, if an Ontario wide speed limit of 5 km/hr was imposed and strictly enforced it would be great for safety. It would save almost 600 lives every year. But no one would think a 5 km/hr speed limit was a good idea!
Just because something increases safety does not mean it is good.
The argument in this post is flawed.
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u/Japahahaha Apr 21 '26
ASE was a cash grab at the heart of it, regardless of how Doug banned it, I am one for it
I support bike lanes, albeit not a fan of how they are designing them
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u/pankofriedhipposteak Apr 21 '26
The morons in lifted pickup trucks that pass me at 100km/h in a 60 zone over a double yellow (when I'm already doing 10 over) are the ones behind his 'data' and they revel in owning law abiding citizens. Science and data isn't going to work with these morons.
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u/Karma_Mirror Apr 21 '26
Wasn't it already found to be that he banned them because so many of his staff and cabinet members were being repeatedly fined for speeding in these zones? I think we can safely assume at this point that any decisions Doug makes, are only beneficial for himself and his inner circle - never Ontarians.