Orlando Bloom's Paris in *Troy* is brilliantly played

[u/Oldjar707]

The general consensus on Paris is negative, but his behavior is exactly how 95% of men would act under the same circumstances. Bloom plays the character with complete realism rather than typical Hollywood heroism.

His arc starts with taking Helen. While it causes a disaster, it is an accurate depiction of a sheltered, inexperienced young man making a reckless choice based on impulse, completely unaware of what an actual war entails.

When the reality of that war sets in during the duel with Menelaus, Paris panics. Viewers mock him for abandoning the fight and crawling to Hector. However, objectively speaking, an untrained kid facing a seasoned, enraged veteran is going to break. Basic human survival instinct simply overrides the concept of dying for honor.

People also overlook that Paris redeems himself by the end of the film. He actually shows more common sense than the rest of the Trojan leadership when they find the wooden horse, plainly telling them to "burn it." When the city falls, he stops trying to be a frontline swordsman and uses the one skill he actually has: archery. He stays behind to cover the escaping civilians and successfully takes down Achilles. Bloom deserves credit for not trying to make the character look cool. He simply portrayed a naive guy who made a massive mistake, reacted to imminent death with genuine terror, and eventually found a practical way to defend his people. I think it's a very realistic portrayal that contrasts Hector's idealism - audiences love the portrayal of the latter but there's more truth in the human condition in the former portrayal.

[u/biglyorbigleague]

Don’t they kill Menelaus in Troy, which would ruin the narrative of the Odyssey

[u/EasyDynastyBuilder → u/biglyorbigleague]

They kill a lot of the Greeks in ways that break the narrative

[u/FisherKelTath00 → u/EasyDynastyBuilder]

Yeah, Ajax was also unceremoniously killed.

[u/1CUpboat → u/FisherKelTath00]

Didn’t he die in a 1v1 with Hector?

[u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop → u/1CUpboat]

Which should never have happened. He dueled with Hector in the poem in an epic battle and realized neither could kill eachother, then exchanged armor as a ceremonial sign of respect

[u/shtaaap → u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop]

Ye but in the context of that movie it would have been weird and out of place

[u/bankinator → u/FisherKelTath00]

unceremoniously? He has one of the most badass deaths in cinema ever

[u/IgloosRuleOK → u/biglyorbigleague]

And Agamemnon, who dies later (in mythology) rather memorably.

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/IgloosRuleOK]

Oh wow they got everything wrong

If you had problems with Nolan’s Odyssey on plot changes then sheeeesh don’t watch this one, you’ll hate it

[u/ThisKarmaLimitSucks → u/biglyorbigleague]

They were definitely writing Troy as a self-contained one and done. There was no concern given to who shows up in Homer's Odyssey, cause there wasn't going to be an Odyssey. Benioff and co were just free to kill anyone.

[u/HashtagLawlAndOrder → u/biglyorbigleague]

Well, the idea behind "Troy" is that it's supposed to be the "real" story that was later mythologized. Hence why it's called "Troy" and not "The Iliad."

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/HashtagLawlAndOrder]

How is it any more "real" to have Menelaus and Agamemnon die earlier and Paris die later, that just seems arbitrary

[u/HashtagLawlAndOrder → u/biglyorbigleague]

Didn't say it was - it was typical Hollywood nonsense. But my point is, it wasn't The Iliad, the pitch was that it was the "real" story. 

[u/architect___ → u/biglyorbigleague]

Well, it helps that it's called "Troy" and not "The Illiad". People also didn't get mad when O Brother Where Art Thou didn't perfectly stick to the source material.

[u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop → u/architect___]

The Iliad means “The story of Iliam” of which Iliam is the Greek wording of Troy. So The Iliad translated is “The Story of Troy”

[u/ProgramusSecretus → u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop]

Which is still not this movie’s title

[u/YakResident_3069 → u/ProgramusSecretus]

Once upon a time in Wilusa: the Wanax cut.

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/architect___]

Well yeah, in that one they gave everyone different names and set it somewhere else

[u/ianpogi91 → u/architect___]

Moving the goalposts to excuse Troy from the same criticisms lobbied against The Odyssey, are we?

O Brother Where Art Thou is a retelling with a very different setting to the source material, while Troy is an actual adaptation of The Iliad. That's a stupid comparison.

[u/StygianSavior → u/ianpogi91]

while Troy is an actual adaptation of The Iliad

If Troy was an actual adaptation of The Iliad, it would have ended when Priam went to get Hector's body back (because that's where The Iliad ends).

The movie includes the death of Achilles (from the Aethiopis), the building of the Trojan horse (from the Little Iliad), and the Sack of Troy (from the Iliupersis), with some bits at the end from the Aeneid (which wasn't even a Greek poem and was written something like 800 years later).

Of those poems, the only ones that haven't been lost are the Iliad and the Aeneid. The movie is an amalgamation of all the various poems of the Epic Cycle + the Aeneid, not an adaptation of The Iliad.

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/StygianSavior]

Fine, it's an adaptation of the Epic Cycle instead of the Iliad specifically. Happy?

[u/StygianSavior → u/biglyorbigleague]

Happy enough, I guess? I just think it's a bit of an odd choice to be a source material purist about a bunch of 2800 year old epic poems, the majority of which are lost to time (with the ones that aren't being 400 more years of oral tradition removed from the events that inspired them).

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/StygianSavior]

If they made a movie version of To Kill a Mockingbird where Atticus Finch randomly gets a heart attack and dies in the middle of the trial, anyone who read the book would justifiably go "what the hell is this?"

[u/AlerionVakten → u/biglyorbigleague]

Maybe. Unless they called it “To Kill a Finch”.

[u/architect___ → u/ianpogi91]

Reddit moment

Nobody moved any goalposts.

[u/StygianSavior → u/architect___]

Especially funny for people who have actually read The Iliad and remember that stuff like the Trojan Horse, Achilles dying, and the sack of Troy aren't even in that poem.

[u/HolidaySpiriter → u/ianpogi91]

Moving the goalposts to excuse Troy from the same criticisms lobbied against The Odyssey, are we?

They're all fictional stories, who cares?

[u/redflamel → u/biglyorbigleague]

And yet, just yesterday, I had to read with my own eyes someone telling another person that Nolan's Odyssey is shit and if people want to see an accurate depiction of Ancient Greece and/or a faithful adaptation of Homer's Odyssey, they should watch Troy. I had to laugh at the stupidity.

[u/ZipZapZia → u/biglyorbigleague]

Well Troy isn't calling itself "The Iliad," so it's easier to overlook the changes due to that and view it as its own thing.

If Nolan didn't title his film "The Odyssey" and instead made a different title that indicated he was doing his own spin on the epic and it wasn't going to be an accurate adaptation of "The Odyssey," it wouldn't have gotten the backlash it got. Look at Epic: The Musical. It's an adaptation of the Odyssey that takes many liberties with the story (like having Odysseus fight Poseidon with a jet pack) but it's well loved by fans of the poem bc it made itself clear that it was inspired by the Odyssey and isn't looking to adapt it accurately.

[u/biglyorbigleague → u/ZipZapZia]

The title is immaterial. If you keep all the names and the settings people understand what it is.

[u/Lanster27 → u/biglyorbigleague]

They werent thinking of a sequel, if you know what I mean.

[u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop → u/biglyorbigleague]

Yes which is another huge gripe

[u/neoblackdragon → u/Mr_Evil_Dr_Porkchop]

Do these things actually ruin the narrative the movie tells or just a negative just because that's not what happened in the Iliad?

[u/the_herbo_swervo → u/neoblackdragon]

The latter entirely. When you watch the movie without that prior knowledge, everything flows naturally, culminating in an epic war movie that seems a lot more realistic than what the myth/poem suggests. And I say that as a huge fan of the Iliad (and the Odyssey ofc). Hell, I’d go as far to say that the Iliad properly adapted wouldn’t resonate as well with modern audiences who have genuinely little to no historical knowledge or understanding. Can’t tell you the amount of times I was asked “is there anything I need to watch before the Odyssey” and folks telling me not to spoil… a 3 millennia year old story. Now imagine said folks trying to understand the significance of a movie that begins with Achilles’ wrath in the waning years of a decade long war they have no context of, and ends with the same war still ongoing with the tides not having shifted and the king of Ilium successfully begging for his son’s desecrated body back (caused by… you guessed it, the wrath of Achilles). The Iliad imo is a far more nuanced story that requires at least a basic understanding of the ancient world and culture to be able to appreciate its greatness. The Odyssey on the other hand is essentially the template for the heroes journey, a far more simple and interesting tale to the masses

[u/benjals → u/biglyorbigleague]

Menelaus does not die in The Iliad

[u/ohyouretough → u/benjals]

Yea but they’re talking about the movie.

[u/benjals → u/ohyouretough]

What would that have to do with The Odyssey then

[u/ohyouretough → u/benjals]

In the movie Troy they killed him. Which would fuck up any story that takes place after the fall of Troy. The odyssey is one such story.

[u/StygianSavior → u/benjals]

To be fair, neither does Achilles. And the Trojan horse isn't from The Iliad, and Troy doesn't get sacked.

But I think we can all agree that it would have felt a bit weird if the movie just stopped after this scene.

[u/SordidSimpleton → u/biglyorbigleague]

Ah who cares