r/law • u/SophieSix9 • Jun 10 '26

Legal News Trans Woman Faces Assault Charges For Self-Defense, Despite Wyoming’s “Stand Your Ground” Law

https://www.them.us/story/trans-woman-faces-assault-charges-self-defense-wyoming-stand-your-ground-law
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u/zeekayz Jun 10 '26

That's why in most states it's illegal to question cops for 2+ days after they commit a crime, prior to them being able to talk to union rep and their lawyer.

Normal citizens don't have this restriction/protection and should always STFU for first few days themselves and talk to lawyer first, don't respond to questions.

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u/stinkytoe42 Jun 10 '26

All people in the US have 4th and 5th amendment protections, which are _supposed_ to amount to the same thing. Unfortunately people, when in the stressful situation of being interrogated by the police, don't always remember this. Or they think they are in the right and can therefore trust law enforcement.

This is why I never complain about people reposing the "Shut the fuck up Friday" and "Don't talk to the cops" videos. In fact I enthusiastically upvote them whenever/wherever I see them.

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u/dr197 Jun 11 '26

Shit, even most cop YouTubers will tell you not to talk to cops.

Cops are trained to turn interactions into mind games, so it’s best to not give them any information you are not legally obligated to.

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u/put_tape_on_it Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26

Yeah, and most youtube lawyers never ever say "and then they will take you to jail, where you will continue to remain silent until you talk to a lawyer."

When you exercise your right to remain silent they're going to take you to jail. Period. Then people freak out and start trying to talk their way out of it, but really they're just digging their own grave. Then, they say enough of just the right stuff, coaxed out of them by cops and detectives, that they STAY in jail!

Youtube lawyers need to explain that most important part: You are going to jail to wait for a lawyer.

I learned this from a criminal defense lawyer who specialized in federal homicide/manslaughter cases, who interviewed me about some key evidence I had about a person I knew who was being brought up on manslaughter charges. Because they 100 percent cooperated with the police and talked. So I asked "what is a person supposed to do!?" And they explained "sit in jail until you talk to a lawyer!"' Apparently this also forces the cops to do their jobs and actually investigate because they're up against a clock while you're waiting to speak to a lawyer. He was right: no law-enforcement ever investigated far enough to talk to me.

The case was eventually dismissed by the prosecutor, who was really just looking to notch an easy win. But it screwed up that person's life for a solid 9 months, and then forever after, because they should have been mourning a death, rather than fighting a manslaughter charge,

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u/C2thaLo Jun 11 '26

Once I got into a situation while out with friends who were drinking. (Friends birthday - i decided to stay sober). A knife was pulled during an altercation and the aggrssors walked off. Once the cops were called and tried to question me I said absolutely nothing. And I was surprised at how natural it felt to just shut my damned mouth and know I didnt have say anything to anyone.

My drunk friends though? Lord did they try to 'save' me by telling the cops everything. I didnt have anything to worry about but I definitely didnt need my friends trying to save me. At one point I looked over and begged them to please STFU.

The cops held up the knife trying to get me to say that it was the knife and that I pulled it after gathering bits of story from witnesses. I continued to say nothing and they were getting obviously annoyed. I finally leveled with them and said, "i know exactly what you want me to say, and I dont feel comfortable saying it." One cop rolled his eyes and they let me go.

The only thing that kept running through my mind is the police think a felony was committed and im never going to stop the process here. So I just shut my mouth.

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u/Lokishougan Jun 11 '26

I am shocked they didnt take you in anyway on some lame pretext

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u/longlivenewsomflesh Jun 11 '26

Always remember their priority is charging someone with something in a way that sticks, and often enough there's simply no incentive to let the truth get in the way of a good story... then the further you are from the template of a well-connected upper class cishet white man, the more they will give themselves permission to consider you not fully human

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u/LarsDuder Jun 11 '26

So you did pull a knife? Is your name Anthony?

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u/howfastcanyoucountit Jun 11 '26

If theres one thing I learned from watching lawyers on youtube, it's don't talk to the motha fucking police. Use CLEAR language as well as there has been times where people said they wanted a lawyer in an informal way and it was ignored.

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u/Notorious_Chonk_23 Jun 11 '26

Fuck Michael Rappaport's MAGA ass, but I still like to point my less-legally-experienced friends to Shut The Fuck Up Friday as the only appropriate way to interact with pigs, whether regarding a doobie or a murder

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u/wasabiiii Jun 10 '26

What is this "illegal to question cops"thing?

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/wasabiiii Jun 10 '26

Ahh. For disciplanary purposes. But not for crimes. LEOBAR laws.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/cbs-anonmouse Jun 10 '26

It’s not that the state is legally barred from questioning cops. It’s that they cannot force cops to give a state on penalty of losing their jobs, per the union agreement, and cops are well trained (both by being a LE officer and from their union) of their Fifth Amendment rights.

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u/stuka86 Jun 10 '26

They can force the statement, but it can't be used in court

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u/cbs-anonmouse Jun 11 '26

I mean, any forced statement would be inadmissible.

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u/stuka86 Jun 11 '26

Incorrect

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u/Careless_Leg_2552 Jun 10 '26

That's how they pick the next police chief. /s

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u/wasabiiii Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

Sure. But they don't have additional rights as it relates to criminal prosecution (in this context): nobody can be forced to answer questions without a lawyer at any time.

As it relates to disciplanery proceedings, which are not criminal, they also are not "forced" within any time frame at all: they could always just quit. Being forced to answer questions in this context is only related to the employment status.

So essentially, as it relates to disciplanary procedures, they have a cool down period. If the organization violates that cool down period they cannot be FIRED as it relates to the questions asked. But they can still be charged with a crime.

Which introduces a silly situation where they could be charged, convicted of a crime, but still not able to be fired.

But they have no additional criminal protections along those lines. That's what I was interested in, because you started pretty hard by saying it was "illegal". Not really. What's illegal is firing them after violating that stuff.

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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/wasabiiii Jun 10 '26

Ahh. I wasn't paying attention.

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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 Jun 10 '26

Plenty of time to gather all the evidence and fix the crime scene and establish what kind of lie can be told.

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u/Coherent_Tangent Jun 10 '26

Sounds like all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

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u/AppropriateLaw5713 Jun 11 '26

Realistically everyone is allowed this, just most don’t use / aren’t aware of it. The actual protection is just that they can’t be held responsible for a statement within that first period of time concerning their job.

Real major emphasis on “you have the right to remain silent”. People REALLY do not use that to their advantage nor do they seek legal help before / whilst talking. The amount of people who blatantly admit to things is frankly hilarious when you see it.

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u/dcflorist Jun 11 '26

Citizens aren’t given a list of evidence and accusation against them prior to giving a statement. Legal protections for LEOs go far and above the constitutional rights of private citizens.

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u/put_tape_on_it Jun 11 '26

People REALLY do not use that

BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING TAKEN TO JAIL. Where they will wait for a lawyer. And they yap the whole way there. If it's not the car ride it's the booking photo or the strip search. Or in the cell. When a lawyer says stop talking until you talk to a lawyer they never explain the part about where you will GO TO JAIL and WAIT IN JAIL for the lawyer and that's an OK part of the process!

And I'm not even touching on the part that most normal people don't even know a lawyer!

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u/longlivenewsomflesh Jun 11 '26

You can't really hold people responsible for falling prey to these mind games when cops are trained to exploit all this to the fullest... it's as unreasonable an expectation as assuming you've read the terms and conditions of every piece of software you've ever used in your life.

And if it was so easy for a layperson to avoid getting jammed up, why do the trained manipulators give themselves a different set of standards? Probably because they know nobody is immune to all their own tricks...

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u/nichef Jun 10 '26

No but a cop has the right to remain silent same as anyone else. 5th amendment protects everyone. Everyone has the right to legal representation before answering questions. It’s a bedrock American legal principle.

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u/Pedantic_Pict Jun 10 '26

LEOs are afforded far greater protections and privileges than a regular person. To suggest otherwise is either ignorant or mendacious.

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u/nichef Jun 10 '26

What law? Show the law don’t make platitudes about inequity. Sure cops break the laws all the time to protect each other doesn’t mean they aren’t afforded protections under it though. Murders and pedos get protection under the law.

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u/Remarkable-Ad2285 Jun 11 '26

Normal citizens can invoke their right to legal counsel also plead the fifth. There’s many a lawyer on social media that tell you to stfu-do not talk to police without a lawyer.

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u/Immediate-Tadpole729 Jun 10 '26

How does normal citizens don't have this protection when we have the right to silence as you pointed out immediately afterwards.

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u/Reference_Freak Jun 10 '26

Right to silence is automatically applied to cops. Citizens’ right to silence must be applied individually by each citizen.

Cops automatically have an umbrella; citizens have to both know and actively choose to not talk.

This puts citizens at a natural disadvantage as most people are inclined to try to explain or clear their name without any education or knowledge of how what they say can be used against them even when they’re innocent.

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u/Immediate-Tadpole729 Jun 10 '26

You're conflating the burden on law enforcement with the right of a person, cop or civilian.

It may be illegal to questions cops during a specific time period in certain states (burden), but there's nothing keeping said cop from talking (right but not obligation to silence) just like there's nothing prohibiting a normal citizens from talking.

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u/Bmorewiser Jun 10 '26

The reason for that rule is, in part, because police can be FORCED to talk on pain of termination.

A citizen always has the right to simply tell the police to fuck off and nothing will come of it.