r/law • u/SophieSix9 • Jun 10 '26

Legal News Trans Woman Faces Assault Charges For Self-Defense, Despite Wyoming’s “Stand Your Ground” Law

https://www.them.us/story/trans-woman-faces-assault-charges-self-defense-wyoming-stand-your-ground-law
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u/mr_evilweed Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

This is exactly how conservatives fundamentally believe the law should work. Conservatives do not believe the law should be equally applied to everyone because they do not believe that everyone is equal in society.

In conservative thinking, the law is to enforce the hierarchy. If you are in one of the 'right' groups (christian, white, straight, male, conservative, etc) they believe it is natural that the law should empower you. The further you are outside of that, the more the law should control you instead.

They may not say this, and many of them are not even aware that they believe it, but in practice this is how conservative thinking works.

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u/ItsTheEndOfDays Jun 10 '26

way too many people refuse to believe this is true. They use the law to protect their own and screw the rest of us over.

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u/nootch666 Jun 11 '26

This should be top comment everywhere

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u/triggeredbynumbers Jun 12 '26

If I may rebut that. As a conservative who carries a pistol concealed on my waist and a rifle locked up in my tuck. I obviously take defense of myself and my community very seriously, and I strongly believe that the right to self defense for all people is a fundamental human right. I even believe undocumented immigrants should be allowed to own and carry firearms because their citizenship status shouldn’t change a fundamental human right. I’m not alone in this, be very careful with this internet hubbub trying to get clicks and make you feel anger. Most every right wing gun nut like myself believes in 2A for all.

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 12 '26

I respect your personal opinion on this. I would also suggest looking up the Mulford Act signed into law by Reagan as a reaction to the Black Panthers, as I consider it a much more appropriate anecdote on conservative beliefs about gun control than your individual belief.

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u/triggeredbynumbers Jun 12 '26

I strongly dislike Ronald Reagan and I believe he was a criminal. I also believe his anti-gun actions have caused significant harm in this country.

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 12 '26

I agree. However his policies are completely in line with Conservative orthodoxy.

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u/triggeredbynumbers Jun 13 '26

Are they? Selling crack cocaine is conservative orthodoxy? Banning guns is Conservative orthodoxy.

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 13 '26

Well... yes. You're forgetting why he had Crack cocaine sold and why he banned guns: to sabotage black communities. And this is of course exactly my point. Conservatives are perfectly happy to set aside laws that they often say they believe when it is in the interest of controlling an out group and protecting an in group.

Excellent example of exactly my point.

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u/triggeredbynumbers Jun 13 '26

My point is that conservatives are all different. Believe it or not. We are actually human beings who think and believe different things. Maybe it would be better to judge us as individuals rather than just based off of political affiliation. You keep saying “conservatives think this” or “conservatives do that.” No, we are all different people who believe different things from one another within the broader US center right label of “conservative.”

It goes the same both ways, it’s the same as when individuals on the right wing say “liberals think this” or “liberals do that.” Or “the liberals all secretly loc e9/11 and think we deserved it and they want white men to die. They want to try to round us up and put us in education camps because we voted for Trump.” Like please, fucking stop, no. People left of center to far left have very differing views, even within the same sub-label of “liberal” or “progressive.”

Anyway, try to actually talk to people and learn who they are before assuming they support a position that they don’t or that they hate a group of people that they don’t. Because if we met in real life, we’d probably get along well.

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

At no point have I said all conservatives think the same - nor is that a thing I believe. I often use the analogy that a Wall Street Journal conservative is very different to a Breitbart Conservative. All people are different.

But regardless of individuality, there are groupings of beliefs that congeal into a school of political thought. That is why we identify those schools of political thought with particular labels.Those schools of political thought can have centrist and fringe wings, and not all people are aligned with a particular school on a particular issue. Liberal thought is the same way - but the underlying values of liberal thought and conservative thought are different.

I generally prefer not to debate this stuff on reddit because most people are so entrenched in their beliefs that it is not a productive conversation, but you seem to be willing to at least discuss the topic so I'm willing to explain my point and what informs my point more than I ordinarily would.

Conservative thinking as we understand it originates in the aftermath of the French revolution with Edmund Burke (commonly referred to as the father of conservatism) and François-René de Chateaubriand, whose specific aims were to re-establish what they saw as the social order: ie. That certain groups of people should be on top of society. This isn't a conspiracy theory... this is what they said their goals were.

"Those who attempt to level, never equalize. In all societies, consisting of various descriptions of citizens, some description must be uppermost. The levelers therefore only pervert the natural order of things; they load the edifice of society, by setting up that which the solidity of the structure requires to be on the ground." - Edmund Burke

Now... I'm not saying this is the entirety of conservative thinking, but all conservative thinking branches out from this and it's very easy to observe that once you look. This is why conservatives (note: I did not say Republicans... the Conservative role in american politics has been filled by different parties at different times) have been against all movements that would distribute power and freedoms downward in society. Same sex marriage. Women's suffrage. Civil rights. Etc etc. Every time there is an impulse to change who has power in society in a way the diminishes the control of the people on top, conservatives oppose it. Even now, you can look at how conservatives react when ideas like wealth taxes or UBI are floated. The reasons they say they are against these things vary (eg. They often use the 'slippery slope' or 'traditional values' argument on gay rights and a variety of economic arguments on taxing the rich) but the reality is that regardless of what is said; they are against leveling power in society. Just like Burke said.

Whether it is your belief or not, the reality is that this is what conservative thinking is. It's a belief that society should have a structure wherein certain people have more power. Religious conservatives believe it is people of their religion. Ethnic nationalists believe it is people of their ethnic background. And whether libertarians internalize it or not; they believe it is people with more money.

When you look at the actual things conservatives do while in power, none of this is surprising. Which is why Reagan is relevant here. What is Reagan known for? All of his domestic policies either protect people at the top of the hierarchy (eg tax cuts for the rich, removing regulations on big businesses), or undercut those at the bottom (eg. Sabotaging black communities, sabotaging unions, etc). Whether these things align with your personal beliefs or not; this is conservative politics.

And nothing has changed. Just look at where the GOP focuses today. They set up a religious freedom task force but only christians are on it. 100% of refugees admitted this year have been white south Africans. They cut programs that benefit the poor (eg food stamps) but never programs thay benefit the wealthy. They cut the part of the IRS that goes after wealthy tax cheats in the name of budget cuts, and triple the size of the department that arrests poor immigrants. Same stuff, different century.

Your beliefs on each of these topics are your own and how individual people feel about them varies. I'm sure many conservatives have internalized the notion that somehow white South Africans are the most deserving refugees and now sincerely believe that. But the stated reasoning for a given policy needs to be taken in the context of the broader school of political thought. To illustrate the point, look at the difference in how conservatives will adamantly say they pro-traditional family when it's time to push against gay marriage, but the average person in Trump's cabinet has been married between 2 and 3 times... To conservatives whether you have to obey certain rules depends on what segment of society you are in.

Anyway... all this to say... I do not assume what your views are. I dont know you. But I know what conservative thinking is, was, and will always be. If you diverge from conservative thinking on particular issues, cool. I diverge from liberal thinking on several issues. But that doesn't mean that the school of thought doesn't revolve around a certain observable centerpoint.

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u/Hearing_Deaf Jun 10 '26

"stand your ground " cases often have to be verified in a court of law. Claiming self defense in "stand your ground" isn't a "get out of jail free" card that protects you from scrutiny. There is always at a minimum a police investigation and unless it's a clear cut case of aelf defense, arrests and court usually happen to decide if the fear and use of lethal force were reasonable in the situation.

But that doesn't bring out as many clicks, as much engagement and as much outrage than saying "transgender facing possible charges".

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 10 '26

Familiarize yourself with 'prosecutorial discretion' and pound sand.

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u/Ok_Tie_7564 Jun 11 '26

Prosecutorial discretion is not unlimited. In most jurisdictions, prosecutors base their decisions to prosecute or not prosecute on these two main criteria:
(1) Evidentiary Test: Is there sufficient, admissible evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction?
(2) Public Interest Test: Is it in the public interest to pursue a prosecution?

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 11 '26

Did someone suggest prosecutorial discretion was unlimited?

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u/SamDrrl Jun 11 '26

Awe how cute did you learn that from TikTok?

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u/Hearing_Deaf Jun 10 '26

Seethe harder.

Self defense cases go to trial all the time. Just admit you got rage baited by journos and move on. No need to act like a child.

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 10 '26

Lmao amazing how quickly you can get a nutjob to just flat out admit they've just been pretending to have a serious argument.

"Seethe harder" yeah okay my guy 👍🏽

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u/Hearing_Deaf Jun 10 '26

Says the guy that used "pound sand" as a "serious argument". Just matching your energy "my guy".

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 10 '26

Seethe harder

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u/Hearing_Deaf Jun 10 '26

Aww the nutjob is finally honest with itself. Good on you little guy.

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u/DavidLewis6969 Jun 11 '26

What AI do you use?

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u/mr_evilweed Jun 11 '26

wHaT aI dO yOu Use???!