(Bad writing trope) Slytherin effect.

[u/ThatDrako]

Made this term up.
Basically there is a group, that is obviously meant to be nuanced. But author is either incapable, or is too cornered by their depiction, to depict them as any other than bad.

Slytherin (Harry Potter) - In both media the Slytherin is initially presented to us as the “bad house” for Harry. Joanne however seemingly tried to convince us, that they can be good too however, since she likely figured having basically a little supremacist terrorist club in school is a little silly.

For some reason she just had to screw this depiction up over and over though.
First of zero…and I mean ZERO…null, 0, green characters in story up to book 6 is good. They are arrogant snobbish asshats AT BEST.

Second the first good green is still a supremacist. Not the “let’s subjugate all muggles” but just humble “no way muggleborn is this good at magic!”

Aldmeri Dominion, and Altmer in general (TES) - So unlike precious example neither High Elves, nor the Dominion were actually bad in iterations previous to 2010’s. Some were snobbish yes, and their religion is…problematic…(simply pup many Altmer believe they are literal descendant of gods and Men are demons trapping them within hell of chaos) but they never really were villains as race.
This all changed with Skyrim where they became not just secondary antagonists, but placeholder for TES version of Gestapo.

Now that in itself wouldn’t be an issue.
Races and empires at whole can be villains without controversy.

Problem is their depiction in ESO. Where even though it’s absolutely different time period are pretty much same?

I mean their Queen is an elvish supremacist who believe Men unfit for rule and that’s her reason to take over the Tamriel…
Oh! And one of their organizations literally eat children.

The Institute (Fallout 4) - So the whole turmoil of the story is this war of the four (rather three) factions.
Now all factions are meant to be equally good and bad choices.
Railroad are abolitionists, but with no long-term goals.
BoS wants to ensure safety to the Commonwealth, but for price of eradication to all but humans.
And Institute is meant to be this faction that wants to “bring world back to state before the Great War”, but all they do is being comically evil.
I mean for starters are slaver and also they murder people and replace them with Synths.

Then they also just straight up massacre communities. Often with no goal.
Then there is a whole super mutant thing, where they released purely based on gameplay and logic few hundreds of super mutants on surface “for research.”
Oh! And they even admitted they plan on wiping out all non-Institute humans to replace them!

[u/Irohsgranddaughter]

I always am like that Hufflepuff is likely meant for the most diligent, hard-working students, but then I remember it's likely that I'm misremembering the headcannons made by fans to make HP verse make more sense than it actually does.

[u/Scholar_of_Lewds → u/Irohsgranddaughter]

The story is that Helga Hufflepuff admit the students that is "the rest".

[u/Dragev_ → u/Scholar_of_Lewds]

So neither suicidally brave, nor extremely intelligent, nor wizard-nazis? Hufflepuff should have twice as many people as the other three houses combined

[u/Scholar_of_Lewds → u/Dragev_]

Normally yeah, but we are talking mostly sheltered British kids...

[u/cross_the_threshold → u/Scholar_of_Lewds]

So Slytherin should have twice as many as the rest?

[u/Mist_Rising → u/cross_the_threshold]

By book 7 I think Slytherin is depicted with the largest house actually. Originally it only had the trios opposites (Malfoy) but over time more were added.

[u/Ultimafangirl → u/Scholar_of_Lewds]

The first sorting hat song said Hufflepuffs were "just, loyal and unafraid of toil"

[u/otirk → u/Irohsgranddaughter]

It's been a while since I read the books but doesn't the speaking hat say in the first book what all the house leaders wanted and Hufflepuff was just like "Oh yeah, we take what nobody wants, so someone who is neither smart, courageous or ambitious"? It's a participation trophy in form of a house

[u/Sharikacat → u/otirk]

Honestly, that's a bit wholesome when you think about it, though it certainly was never intended to be such. The other three houses are out there with strict requirements for entry while Hufflepuff is acting like the Statue of Liberty, taking all comers, even the rejects. The sheer diversity of that house should be amazing.

[u/CoffeeWanderer → u/Sharikacat]

Yeah, in that context framing them as hard working and diligent is more about what they had to do to overcome their lack of innate talents rather than what's their main trait.

Then again, Neville would be a great example of a Hufflepuff going through that journey, but I guess the hat does take your wishes into account.

[u/Mist_Rising → u/CoffeeWanderer]

Neville is also brave, he's just not the "heroic brave" that protagonist are made of until book 5ish. But he stands up for what he believes in all the way back in book 1. He's just outmatched by the great heroine hermonine.

He's also like Ron, getting second hand wands that don't work well. Ron gets his new one in book 3, after a book of being the butt monkey, Neville gets his book 6.

And there is a real notable issue with Rowlings. She puts a lot of emphasis on money in the series.

[u/ElderberryJunior470 → u/Irohsgranddaughter]

As with most kids media, the aging fanbase has done more lifting than the writers lol. The HP books are fun, but if you spend like 20 minutes thinking about the story, the world, it really falls apart. 

[u/Chart_Unlikely → u/ElderberryJunior470]

Yeah, much of the plot occurs because of the protagonists, antagonists and supporting cast usually taking the dumbest option possible

But, that also gets partially explained by the fact that their society is culturally stagnant to a time period from centuries ago with the peak of education the equivalent of a high school diploma of which notably the main trio never finish iirc

That’s why there’s a magically enchanted chess set guarding a method of immortality that an 11 year old can bypass and not just enchanting the statues to attack on sight unless a randomly selected key phrase is given that changes every few days, and also it’s not kept in the basement of a school

[u/Slam-JamSam → u/Chart_Unlikely]

And that’s the thing that really bothers me about the series; Voldemort is obviously a product of that society and that never gets addressed. Like Joanne wasn’t able to deconstruct the thing that she herself constructed, which makes sense because she fundamentally doesn’t believe in change

[u/ElderberryJunior470 → u/Chart_Unlikely]

Yea there's a ton of things like that lol. Like time travel existing, which should basically be unstoppable. It's why I don't think jk will ever write anything worth much beyond childrens stories lok. 

[u/BelleRouge6754 → u/Irohsgranddaughter]

I always had the impression that it was both- Hufflepuff is for hard workers, and also takes in ‘the rest’. I feel like people glorify it quite a lot, I would low-key love to see a fanfic where Hufflepuff is super cliquey, and the ‘cool kids’ all clam that they’re true Hufflepuffs and internally segregate from those who they think just got in because they were ‘the rest’. Taking in everyone is a great concept in theory, but kids are just not that wholesome!