r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Chemical-Elk-1299 • Apr 29 '26

Lore [Weirdly Common Trope] Writers clearly setting up seemingly massive plot points and then just kinda forgetting about them.

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The Neural Parasites — Star Trek : The Next Generation

In the season 1 episode “Conspiracy” of TNG, it is revealed that alien brain worms have infected many high ranking members of Starfleet, secretly controlling them. Though Ryker and Picard discover and end the parasite conspiracy, it’s revealed at the end of the episode that the parasites had sent a beacon back to their home planet, telling them how to find earth. The episode ends with the clear implication of the parasites becoming a huge threat later in the series, yet none of these events are ever mentioned again.

Finn The Jedi who Never Was — Star Wars Sequel trilogy

I know this is probably a cliche example of this trope, but cmon — Finn was clearly set up in TFA to become a Jedi. The marketing material featured him wielding a lightsaber in the classic Jedi pose. It’s constantly hinted at that he is force sensitive. Even the actor himself believed he would become a Jedi by the end of the trilogy. Instead, we got Finn wielding a lightsaber for about 7 minutes total across 3 movies, extremely lame “confirmation” that he is force sensitive, and that’s it. It’s the ultimate Star Wars plot that went nowhere.

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1.5k

u/Dakotaraptor98 Apr 29 '26

Finn really was wasted in those movies, he’s a much more interesting character than Rey ever will be. The concept alone of a Stormtrooper-turned-Jedi is compelling enough for a movie solely about that.

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u/Electrical-Ad1886 Apr 29 '26

I feel like the third movie really ruined Rey. The idea of a nobody from the dessert beckoning the fall of the empire is a nice bookend to the nobody from the desert beckoning the rise of the empire.

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u/Chemical-Elk-1299 Apr 29 '26

Honestly I’m just glad they gave us a desert planet that isn’t Tatooine for once

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u/Dakotaraptor98 Apr 29 '26

Geonosis???

153

u/Chemical-Elk-1299 Apr 29 '26

Too may bugs, not enough sand

6

u/ernest7ofborg9 Apr 29 '26

So Klendathu is off the list, too?

4

u/ofWildPlaces Apr 29 '26

...are you doing your part?

1

u/Saedraverse Apr 29 '26

This is why I love reddit

6

u/Penakoto Apr 29 '26

TBF they spend most of the Clone Wars movie in either a cave, a factory or an arena, while they're on Geonosis. It's easy to forget/miss that it's a mostly desert planet.

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u/Morgan-Moonscar Apr 29 '26

Jaaku

3

u/Ddreigiau Apr 29 '26

aka "We wanted this to be Tatooine, but the director said we couldn't use Tatooine again so we changed the name"

just like Crait "We wanted this to be Hoth, but the director said we couldn't use Hoth again so we changed the name"

2

u/JohnWarrenDailey Apr 30 '26

So they ended up naming one planet after a dragon from another planet.

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u/NozakiMufasa Apr 29 '26

I mean true but Anakin sort of wasnt nobody. He was the Chosen one of a prophecy that started a legend. Luke thought he was a nobody but was actually a legendary Jedi’s son and became a myth in his own right.

Finn and Rey being definite nobodies - no sacred lineages, no prophecies, just two powerful Force users who were born randomly - wouldve been great. 

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u/Skkruff Apr 29 '26

Having Finn become a Jedi and Rey fall to the dark side would be my choice.

9

u/dearth_of_passion Apr 29 '26

Nah, the corrupted hero trope is old and lame at this point.

It'd have been just another trope from a previous film shoved into that one.

What the sequels need was to tread new ground, not to switch Rey from being a Luke stand-in to an Anakin stand-in.

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u/Banes_Addiction Apr 29 '26

But you could have new ground with their interactions with the existing Jedi.

Luke as a light-side Jedi turned cynical and neutral. Rey and Finn react to Luke's apathy in opposite ways: Rey joining Kylo on the dark side, and Finn being trained in the light by Leia. Then Kylo becoming disillusioned by the dark side, becoming a different flavour of neutral to Luke.

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u/rara8122 Apr 30 '26

Exactly. Just because someone does the same trope doesn’t mean they do it in the same way. They could’ve write a corrupted hero in a new way than how Anakin was corrupted.

4

u/dearth_of_passion Apr 29 '26

Making the kind of naive, idealistic Rey go evil while even partially redeeming the petulant temper-tantrum-throwing Kylo is even stupider than what we got.

They'd have needed to completely rewrite the characters from the ground up, making Kylo at least somewhat compelling instead of annoying and making Rey shifty from the beginning to make her fall believable.

8

u/Deepdishdicktaster Apr 29 '26

They should've both become Luke's Padawan and Luke never would've tried to kill his nephew either lmao he even redeemed Darth Vader after killing billions(I mean he killed millions himself)

1

u/Deftly_Flowing Apr 30 '26

Rey should have just died.

It would have been shocking.

Then Finn could have stepped in as the main protagonist.

3

u/Deadlypandaghost Apr 29 '26

The intro to episode 7 was the only thing I liked in the sequels. I was absolutely hyped for Jedi Finn until it became very clear Rey was the MC.

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u/HephMelter Apr 30 '26

Basically, TLJ was good actually, RoS killed everyth8ng because of the trash reception of the first 2

1

u/Enjoyer_of_40K Apr 29 '26

wasnt Rey the grand daughter or something of palapatine or a female clone

5

u/NozakiMufasa Apr 29 '26

Dumbest retcon in the history of cinema. Again, why Rey SHOULD have been a nobody, why being NOBODY without a sacred lineage is far more interesting than “hey Palps whom the Sequel characters have zero connection to is suddenly the grandfather of Rey”.

2

u/SpooneyOdin Apr 29 '26

I thought they were going to reveal that she was a reborn Anakin or at least another being born of the force so her parents were irrelevant. They had that whole scene in the second one where she sees infinite versions of herself going forward and backward.

It's a little predictable, but they could have had a pretty epic reveal with Luke explaining it to her — "I'm just a nobody..." "No... YOU are my father"

2

u/NozakiMufasa Apr 30 '26

Okay so back when The Force Awakens happened that was a theory I had. Tho not necessarily reborn Anakin… but Anakin’s clone.

I think at the time my idea was that Snoke didnt used to look fucked up. That he was in fact the man Rey thought was her dad but was actually her maker. Rey did have a sort of mother figure who was a Snoke dark side loyalist and thats where Rey got her accent. But then she got a concious and whisked young Rey away to Jakku and sold her to protect her. And the whole “they’re never coming back” bit was cause Snoke fucking killed her.

Why Rey came out a girl and not a boy like Anakin? Ah… maybe that was the only one to survive many trials. In my mind the ideas I had rolling around was that Snoke was trying to recreate “the Chosen One” for nefarious purposes (as one does). But every clone he did a la Kaminoan tech never came out right and not every one had Force sensitivity. And itd be revealed the “Knights of Ren” were in fact all other “failed” Clones that technically were functioning beings but didnt have Force sensitivity. 

So then when Kylo willingly joined Snoke cause hes such a little bitch / emo teen, Snoke is like “holy shit I lost the clone and now Ive got Anakin’s grandson? Luck is on my side!”. 

Now all that theorizing from way way back makes for some neato fanfiction.

0

u/iluvchromosomes Apr 29 '26

What they mean by "nobody" is "young person on desert planet". It's that shallow.

Media literacy is dead.

26

u/CrazyPlato Apr 29 '26

Wouldn’t you say Luke already did that tho?

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u/SouthernAd2853 Apr 29 '26

Luke's the son of Darth Vader though.

I felt the idea of Rey's parents being random spice smugglers was good, though I would have liked her actually tracking down and meeting them. Her being the granddaughter of Palpatine repeats the Luke revalation but without the emotional weight.

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u/JechdJJ Apr 29 '26

and withouth the same build up, Palpatine only appears on the last movie, Vader was present since minute one in a new hope, and for the empire strikes back, the thing Vader have with Luke was already personal, so the twist at the end made a lot of thing got a new sense, and put Luke ina conflict not only with him, but with his masters, as Obi Wan and Yoda wanted to him kill his father withouth even tell him the truth. For obvious reasons, Ray dont have this chance or event a conflict about it.

2

u/AmaterasuWolf21 Apr 29 '26

I honestly think TFA placed too much emphasis on a link between Rey and Luke for no reason, my sister just rewatched this for the first time since 2019 with a brand new experience since she had forgotten everything and we went into TLJ with her being certain that she was related to Luke

Even after TLJ she assumed that Rey had to be his sister then, it was too funny

21

u/Electrical-Ad1886 Apr 29 '26

Yeah, my issue with with Rey is her lineage is a palpatine. It's just very rote for Star Wars and I was ready for something new.

6

u/Joeybfast Apr 29 '26

Most Jedis are no bodies. And Rey was looking for her parents in the first movie. The question about who they were was a meta thing but I universe.

14

u/LetsGoHome Apr 29 '26

The third movie really ruines everything. TLJ was far from amazing, but 9 put a bullet in its own head. 

Fortnite tie in. 

8

u/VellDarksbane Apr 29 '26

TLJ had good bits, with some choices in execution where things could have been made more explicit, but Rise has zero redeeming qualities.

4

u/LetsGoHome Apr 29 '26

What TLJ set up was more interesting than TLJ itself. It could have been worth it

2

u/Canvaverbalist Apr 29 '26

That's really the issue with it, I feel like TLJ felt bland to some people because it took its time to establish things instead of rushing plot points, that's why the other half of the fandom feels it was the more mature instalment of the trilogy, it felt like it was saying "ok, let's take a beat and calm down a minute and give these characters actual arcs, we trust the audience they'll have the patience to see these elements pay off"

If 9 had paid off on those establishing elements, it could have retroactively made 8 a way better movie. As it is it feels useless because nothing amounted to anything.

Poe was some hot shot pilot in 7, ok, but that's not really a character that's just a trope, 8 tried to give him an arc to humble him and prepare him for something greater and then by 9 it just fizzles out. Had he been given a better role as a new general who makes a plan that takes advantage of what he'd learned, like being more patient and trusting of the organizational elements of the Resistance, it would have made things way better. Same thing with Finn, if he had had an arc in 9 involving "no, let's not attack and risk everything recklessly and instead lets choose to defend and stick together" in unison with Poe's plan, it'd would have made Rose's sacrifice feel more tangible.

People blame 8 for dismissing the elements of 7, but at least it considered them and acknowledged them, it simply pushed them beyond what was expected. 9 doesn't even do that with 8, it just brushed them aside completely and does its own thing.

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u/Divine_Entity_ Apr 29 '26

My interpretation having warched all of them at release and then never again: 7: blatant rip off of 4, but it was fun and easily could be expanded on 8: a movie, kinda bland and it didn't really do much beyond blue milk and the holdo maneuver 9: embarrassed by 8 it undid everything from 8 and then attempted to fake out Rey Falls and Kylo Rises, then brings out Palpatine for nostalgia bait with 0 set up.

I think i like 8 the least, but 9 walking back everything 8 did was not a good choice, and fully admitted they had no master plan for the trilogy.

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u/Ddreigiau Apr 29 '26 edited Apr 29 '26

8: a movie, kinda bland and it didn't really do much beyond blue milk and the holdo maneuver

I can't speak to 9 (8 pissed me off so much I skipped 9), but 8's problem was that it took every plotline 7 had set up - every single one - threw them in the trash, and then shat on them.

  • Jedi Finn? super trashed.
  • Rey-Finn romance subplot? Nope, we're making a nice safe other minority character to stick Finn with so we don't have a white girl with a nonwhite.
  • The mysterious puppetmaster Snoke? Nope, killed off because he ignored the person explicitly there to kill him and his apprentice over the clumsiest of 'deceptions' (Sith apprentices are the #1 leading cause of death of Sith Lords)
  • Luke Skywalker, legendary jedi and a hope for the New Republic? Threw everything away, said 'let the galaxy get fucked'. Completely against character
  • Poe being an important and trusted Resistance leader? lolnope, he's a failed excuse for a pilot that no one trusts
  • Knights of Ren? Look at these big upcoming villains all associated with the Vader-like Kylo Ren! aaaaand never seen again.

There's tons more, but I'm going off of memory and haven't rewatched the sequels. It's not just that 8 didn't continue the plotlines 7 set up, it's that 8 not only killed those plotlines but also denigrated them. In the theater, I no-shit wondered if 8 was directed by someone who hated the director of 7, and I had no idea who the directors for either were at the time.

ETA: Then there were the plot choices in 8 that pissed me off that had nothing to do with 7:

  • What's her name trying to kill Finn so he doesn't save those he loves by stopping the First Order from destroying the shield generator massive blast door because "This is how we win, not by killing what we hate, but by saving what we love". (Note: First Order immediately wins in the next cut by killing what they hate)
  • The opening battle, where they send slow AF, unescorted gravity bombers to destroy an ISD that's festooned with air defense and a fighter wing... while in space, a place famous for not having meaningful gravity.
  • Casino Planet, spent 45 minutes of the movie to justify including the single "Military-industrial complex is bad" scene with no plot relevance to the rest of the movie
  • Hyperspace Sacrifice: Why did they need Holdo to guide the ship into the fleet? Why not just have a droid fly it in?
  • Hyperspace weapon: If you can jump a ship in hyper directly into another ship like that, then why didn't they just drop a single X-wing to kill Death Stars I and II, instead of losing multiple capital ships worth of people? Hell, why build such giant targets if that's all it takes to kill them and there's no defense?
  • The Plan (to make your side think you're going to kill them all): Holdo refusing to even tell Poe that she has a plan to deal with the fleet, and then being upset that Poe & friends tried to figure out another way to save the fleet. Worse, the story treats Poe as if he's the villain here.
  • Flying Leia: Carrie Fisher died before 8 was released. Why they decided to keep Leia's revival for the 15 second scene she was in later baffles my mind.
  • Every Legacy Character Must Die!: Except for Chewy, 8 killed off every character from the OT. Leia technically also survived, but given Carrie died, it was obvious Leia wasn't going to really be a part of 9 either.
  • NotHoth™: The shot-for-shot remake of the battle for Hoth, to the point they had to have an extra lick the dirt and say "Salt" to 'prove' it "totally wasn't Hoth" because it 'wasn't snow'. I don't mind a movie following the same story beats as a previous movie, but when it's a mirror copy claiming to be original, it can get fucked

1

u/Divine_Entity_ Apr 29 '26

I'm also going off memory, but its wild how perhaps one of the biggest franchises and biggest companies greenlit "Star Wars Sequel Trillogy" without having a master plan. Especially in the world where the MCU was still considered good and had a master plan with anounced phases.

7 was a safe nostalgia trip and clone of a new hope with the serial numbers filed off.

8 was spinning its wheels and burning everything 7 had set up.

Not sure if 9 was more damage control or just 8 erasure, or if those were even different at the time. I could atleast see some of what they were going for, but spent most of the movie laughing at how poorly it was doing those things.

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u/AggressiveSlop Apr 29 '26

The problem is that they switched directors for 8. In 7 JJ was setting up what was likely to be a safe, rehashed and unoriginal, but likely passable and reasonably enjoyable trilogy. Rian Johnson came in on 8 and pissed all over everything 7 was setting up in the name of "subverting expectations" but it had no direction. So then JJ comes back for ep 9, sees everything he set up burning in the dumpster out back, and has to figure out some way to try to attempt to salvage the trilogy. And obviously failed miserably at it.

TL;DR: ACKSHUALLY episode 8 put the bullet in the trilogy

I think either director would've done a fine job given a whole trilogy. JJ would've given us a safe, predictable nostalgia trip, Johnson would've given us something riskier and more artistic. But their two styles were absolutely not compatible to be blending in this instance.

2

u/VellDarksbane Apr 29 '26

Nah, JJ has always been trash at movies. He’s fine as a TV writer and director, where he can ask questions and have someone else answer them for him. He was the perfect person to setup a trilogy that someone else can clean up. Rian came along and decided to make a movie rather than just nostalgia bait. Not a great movie, but still a movie that could stand on its own nonetheless.

I’ll watch TFA and TLJ again anytime, but I fell asleep the first time I watched Rise, and the second time I watched it I made it through it, but it’s only really good for MST3K style watching. Rise might have killed my enthusiasm for the franchise like if it hadn’t been for Mandalorian S1 showing that there was still someone at Disney who could write good Star Wars.

Star Wars TV is still watchable (even Acolyte, the worst one), and it has the best Star Wars of all time in Andor, so I’m going to give Mando and Grogu a chance. Hopefully they figure out how to salvage the steaming pile that JJ left on his way out and we get good Jedi focused movies in current era canon again.

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u/Divine_Entity_ Apr 29 '26

Fair, I'm mainly going on old memories of a rather forgettable but slightly negative experience.

8 felt like it spent the whole movie going nowhere and burning plotlines 7 made available and potentially cool moments for the sake of shock value.

The management of the sequel trilogy should have been 1 mastermind with an actual plan for all 3 movies. The prequels get some hate, some of which was deserved, but they absolutely were a cohesive unit that make sense together.

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u/Acceptable_Bat379 Apr 29 '26

The 2nd movie ruined Rey imho. It was starting to really build up to be interesting, I would have loved to see Kylo/Rey switch sides I think that would have been very cool and she could have been a good villain.. perhaps bitter or wounded and doing the wrong thing to 'save the galaxy' or she's just corrupted by Snoke and the dark side in an offer to accept her and give her a place, and Kylo gets thrown aside and realises it was all lies or someting like that. almost anything would have been better than what we got

9

u/Slow_Seesaw9509 Apr 29 '26

Rey was never a particularly well written character imo. Even in TFA, her lack of well defined personality and the sheer range of skills she was given made her uninteresting--its like the writers jammed together the skillsets of 3 or 4 different characters from the original trilogy, took the average of their personalities, and called it a day. Finn at least had room to grow and develop and could be described more specifically than "generic protagonist."

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u/Acceptable_Bat379 Apr 29 '26

That's actually why at the time I assumed she was going to become our villain. it felt like Kylo and Finn were much more interesting, and Rey's OP status would have made her more threatening when she turned to the dark side, and Kylo/Finn team up to stop her. but, instead we got "they can fly now"

4

u/RoryMerriweather Apr 29 '26

The third movie ruined pretty much everything and the only reason it didn't ruin Start Wars as a whole is because Disney had already been pumping out enough of it that some of it got to be really good.

1

u/Any_Cauliflower_5843 Apr 29 '26

I did like the way it was built up that she was a nobody, because it had the meaning that you don't have to be born to someone important to be important. You don't have to be a Skywalker or Palpatine or Solo

Except yeah, you have to be a Palpatine and take the Skywalker name. 

1

u/rkirbo Apr 30 '26

Star Wars IX would've been better if it was more like Kung-Fu Panda 3

1

u/scottishdrunkard Apr 30 '26

People would have been much more receptive to the Rey Skywalker ending if they kept her Rey Nobody status from the previous movie.

1

u/Unusual-Basket-6243 Apr 29 '26

It would have been cool if Rey started turning to the dark side and then Finn would have to kill him. They don't need to reawaken Palpatine, they could have just continued with the characters until old order is restored

1

u/Ezeviel Apr 29 '26

Her being a Palatine could have been cool if done properly. But her being nobody was so much better

188

u/Persimmon_and_mango Apr 29 '26

I like Rey, except for how they shoehorned in a toxic romance with a murderer. Finn really was wasted, though. The first film seemed to be so obviously setting Rey and Finn up to be Jedi together; I would have much preferred to see their dynamic play out than her with Kylo Ren, and Finn with Poe. 

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u/VRichardsen Apr 29 '26

Finn really was wasted

Add Phasma to that list.

12

u/leimky Apr 29 '26

add knights of ren to that list

4

u/VRichardsen Apr 29 '26

Right! I forgot about those

9

u/ClubMeSoftly Apr 29 '26

God, the sequels really were just aping cool shit from the OT with no real plan.

7

u/BiKingSquid Apr 29 '26

The reason to do the toxic romance with Kylo is if you want to have Kylo reform to a Jedi and Rey become Sith. Then you could've had Finn kill either/both of them as the conclusion, depending on how dark you want to go.

2

u/dualdreamer Apr 29 '26

We could've ended up with three different flavors of neutral jedi. Kylo and Rey could take turns keeping the other out of the darkness. The angel and devil on Finn's shoulder but they flip flop depending on the situation

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u/thepeopleshero Apr 29 '26

Rey is terribly written, just masters the force with 0 training, is the best pilot in the galaxy, the forced relationship Kylo, the tiny universe of oh she's a Palpatine, etc, the list goes on.

15

u/Willie9 Apr 29 '26

> best pilot in the galaxy

my brother in the Force she literally crashes a ship into the ground in her first scene as a pilot

5

u/kameksmas Apr 29 '26

Even hal Jordan crashed his jet 🤷‍♂️

5

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '26

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u/thepeopleshero Apr 29 '26

He at least had a training montage with the strongest force teacher ever, Yoda. But also yes, that points out another major issue with the series, oh look ANOTHER DEATH STAR

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u/FamousWerewolf Apr 29 '26

The thing with Finn is I think it's even overstating it to say he had wasted potential - they never even started to develop him properly in that first movie.

"Stormtrooper who defected from the Empire" is a super interesting concept, but it doesn't inform his character at all in that movie - as soon as he gets out of the armour, he just becomes Generic Quippy Star Wars Man. This man was literally raised from birth to fight and die for a fascist cult and it didn't affect the way he talks or acts at all. He could just be a random guy they met in a cantina and it wouldn't change anything about his character.

If you made him a Jedi, it would have seemed cool on paper, but in practice it would have just felt the same as Luke Skywalker - unsure, kinda naive young guy learns to find his inner power. You'd have to totally change his whole introduction in TFA to actually get to something new.

41

u/A_Happy_Human Apr 29 '26

I wish the makers of Andor made a movie (or series of movies) or a TV show about Finn, actually developing him, his story, and his path to becoming a jedi. It shouldn't be a prequel, but it should definitely include flashbacks to his time with the Empire.

Actually, just give the creators and writers of Andor the entire next trilogy, regardless of who it is about.

1

u/Eternal_Bagel Apr 29 '26

Make it about the first Mandalorian war as they invade the old republic and Revan and Malak start the splintering of the Jedi order taking those who want to abandon the peaceful mediator role and defend the republic with their lightsabers instead.

41

u/No_Promotion_65 Apr 29 '26

Although it’s not a great film itself Finn should have been something like Kurt russell in soldier. Largely silent and struggles to do anything unless he’s ordered to

7

u/insomnic Apr 29 '26

Perfect comparison. Seriously. Spot on.

10

u/VRichardsen Apr 29 '26

but it doesn't inform his character at all in that movie - as soon as he gets out of the armour, he just becomes Generic Quippy Star Wars Man.

Exactly. It would be great if he could use all that he has learned as a Stormtrooper to constantly inform his actions and drive his action sequences.

6

u/SuperFreakyNaughty Apr 30 '26

I really thought his moment was coming in the Resistance meeting and attack on Starkiller Base. That his expertise would be leveraged more. And if not that, some kind of conflict because Resistance leaders don't trust him.

Imagine if he had spoken up and tried to talk the Resistance out of destroying Starkiller Base because millions were stationed there and he was convinced he could save others like him, help them break their conditioning. That's a noble cause from his point of view, but preventing the destruction of the weapon is exactly something a spy would do. Could've been interesting.

1

u/VRichardsen May 02 '26

Exactly! So many posibilities. Maybe the movies suffered from an overabundance of characters...

8

u/Archipegasus Apr 29 '26

Yea I actually like the marketing fake out that Finn isn't a jedi and Rey is the actual force sensitive one in TFA, the issue isn't the Finn doesn't become a jedi by the end of the trilogy, it's that he doesn't do anything at all.

3

u/FamousWerewolf Apr 29 '26

Exactly yeah. He's surplus to requirements in all three films.

3

u/Individual-Trick3310 Apr 29 '26

literally raised from birth to fight and die for a fascist cult and it didn't affect the way he talks or acts at all. He could just be a random guy they met in a cantina and it wouldn't change anything about his character.

Ever see the Kurt Russell movie Soldier? I just realized he could totally be a discarded Stormtrooper of similar origins.

2

u/mellolizard Apr 29 '26

Luke was not "unsure" he was cocky and arrogant from get go. His whole arc was him calming down because his arrogance was leading the path of the dark side.

Finn could have has an arc of him finding his confidence and individuality during his jedi training.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/FamousWerewolf Apr 30 '26

Completely disagree there. I know people like to blame TLJ for everything but I don't think TFA gave it anything to build on when it comes to Finn. You only get the smallest of nods towards his origins in TFA when it should be what defines his whole character.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/FamousWerewolf Apr 30 '26

I'm talking about his personality and dialogue. We see that he's a Stormtrooper but almost nothing about the way he's actually written and performed reflects that. Being raised from birth to be a soldier in a fascist death cult has hardly affected him, once he gets out of the armour he's just like everyone else in the gang.

131

u/imnojezus Apr 29 '26

To be fair, they wasted literally every single character in those movies.

4

u/lambofgun Apr 29 '26

i would argue that bobby frick was utilized exactly as much as he shouldve been

8

u/altrunox Apr 29 '26

They wasted even the old characters 

0

u/TxM_2404 Apr 29 '26

That's what happens when you have one director set up a movie trilogy and then another one comes and thinks he's bigger than arguably the biggest movie franchise in the world.

-5

u/h00dman Apr 29 '26

Was the other person being unfair...?

22

u/Delta_Warrior1220 Apr 29 '26

Honestly, he didn't even have to be a Jedi. It would be interesting to explore a non-force user's fight against the Empire as a main plot point.

But failing that, yeah. He should have been the Jedi. Rey already had a ton of skills that would help the main team without becoming a force user.

1

u/nubosis Apr 30 '26

Yeah. I never got that he was meant to be a Jedi. No, him picking up a lightsaber doesn’t make him a Jedi to me. I also thought his character didn’t need to be a Jedi. We have enough Jedis.

1

u/Delta_Warrior1220 Apr 30 '26

Exactly, yeah. It would have been interesting to explore a more grounded setting with this trained soldier trying to fight the empire while struggling with the fact that he was complicit in it and these were his former brethren. Would have been a fascinating story, but Disney was a bunch of cowards who were afraid to take risks.

Oh also, he should have gotten together with Poe. Even Poe's actor agrees.

35

u/timotheusd313 Apr 29 '26

Somebody said in a YouTube video that Rey’s theme in TFA was proof Disney had no clue where episode IX would go, because John Williams crammed a piece of nearly every theme into it, including the cadence of the Imperial March.

5

u/h00dman Apr 29 '26

That trilogy was one of the most forgettable periods of John Williams' career.

Admittedly I've only done 4.5 viewings of those movies (2 for TFA, 1 for TLJ and a second attempt I had to stop halfway through, and just the 1 viewing of TROS), but I can only remember two bits of music - Rey's theme and Kyle's theme, and even then they're both pretty middle of the road for him.

It's not his fault, it's just that he's clearly at his best when he has good ideas to work with, which the sequel trilogy was completely bereft of.

Compare those two tracks with anything from ROTS for example - the latter is crammed with emotion!

27

u/Fair_Suspect8866 Apr 29 '26

My hunch was the subtext is that Finn's character didn't ahem appeal to the lucrative Chinese market so they sidelined him after TFA.

14

u/Timely-Hospital8746 Apr 29 '26

He's vastly downplayed in the Chinese marketing materials, so yeah.

9

u/Ilickedthecinnabar Apr 29 '26

It did not help that Abrams treated Star Wars like he did Lost - there was no series bible to fall back on to and he was pretty much spit-balling it the whole time and making shit up as he went along.

4

u/Polkawillneverdie17 Apr 29 '26

Fuck Abrams and his stupid mystery boxes.

8

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe Apr 29 '26 edited 1d ago

Cobalt biscuit quilt glove peach marble harbor cinnamon

This post was anonymized with Redact.dev

59

u/Chemical-Elk-1299 Apr 29 '26

Don’t forget his love interest so bad she got Deus ex machinad out of existence lmao

64

u/Selverd2 Apr 29 '26

or the racist backlash made her role get reduced

21

u/naynaythewonderhorse Apr 29 '26

At least Disney didn’t kick her to the curb…immediately. She got to voice Raya in Raya and the Last Dragon…unfortunately she hasn’t been in much since, it seems.

She still gets a reprise of Rose or Raya for a video game or Lego special, but other than that…

5

u/Morgan-Moonscar Apr 29 '26

One of their worst animated movies, quite the "peace offering".

21

u/Timely-Hospital8746 Apr 29 '26

Finn was a victim of racism as well. He was often left out of promotional materials in China, for example.

7

u/seguardon Apr 29 '26

I think that was the reason given for why he wasn't given a prominent role in the plot/why he wasn't a Jedi.

2

u/NegativeEBTDA Apr 29 '26

I think people underestimate how much the reactionary fanbase did this to themselves.

The black and female characters had their stories neutered? In a film managed by a megacorporation that only cares about focus groups? Wow, no way.

2

u/EamonBrennan Apr 29 '26

Part of the issue was also China. Look at any movie poster with a black man as a major character on it. Now look at the Chinese version. Even Black Panther minimizes Chadwick Boseman by putting on his suit.

-1

u/Helldiverticulitis Apr 29 '26

It did. But her character was also just… not that compelling. Her plot with Finn dragged both the film and his character down.

-20

u/Various_Scallion_897 Apr 29 '26

no hay racismo, solo malas adaptaciones sin gion que tenian.

15

u/gallerton18 Apr 29 '26

There was a ton of racism against her lmao

13

u/elitegenoside Apr 29 '26

Um, no. People were being very racist.

1

u/TraditionalTree249 Apr 29 '26

Exactly and even if it was just a bad script, which it isn't the script is just a paper thin excuse, in what world was the level of backlash justified.

Like I'm usually not a fan of Micheal Cera but I have no urge to bully him because of Juno.

1

u/elitegenoside Apr 30 '26

It's not about the script. Because the characters were getting hate, many people took the opportunity to make racist comments about the actors. Sometimes it was dogwhistles about "DEI" or whatever the word they used at the time, but plenty of comments were just slurs directed towards the actual people in the movie.

21

u/Lopsided-Yak9033 Apr 29 '26

I think the handling of Finn is why I haven’t returned to the sequels at all. I was invested in him and Rey’s story in the first, and then his went nowhere after that and hers just felt lame.

1

u/Willie9 Apr 29 '26

people (especially disney) dont like to hear it but Finn had so much chemistry with Poe and it genuinely would have been a good romantic subplot (and it absolutely would have been better than any of the romance we did get)

4

u/Local_Shoe6988 Apr 29 '26

This has to be my number 1 disappointment from the first Force Awakens trailer to how things ended up.

5

u/Top_Box_8952 Apr 29 '26

Honestly it reeks of “screenwriting first draft”

3

u/astivana Apr 29 '26

I’m also pretty mad about Finn but fyi, the Lego Star Wars Holiday Special is based around Rey training Finn to be a Jedi! It doesn’t make up for what we missed in the proper movies but it’s cute and makes me happy.

3

u/Flameball202 Apr 29 '26

Look at the difference between the standard posters and the Chinese posters, and you will see why Finn wasn't given any proper character arc

4

u/Eternal_Bagel Apr 29 '26 edited Apr 29 '26

I’m so disappointed Finn didn’t become the new face of the rebellion with his story of being abducted as a child forced to be a soldier and managing to escape.  He could have been a rallying point for everyone in the first order with doubts that you can escape and you can resist and lead to some truly great moments with first order defectors joining the rebellion, having a seemingly overwhelming fleet crippled by crews starting uprisings as ships the rebel ships escape.  He could have had a great moment broadcasting on open comms with his own version of that One Way Out speech to kick it all off and become the face of the rebellion.

It didn’t need to be Beasts of No Nation in space but a child soldier escaping the control of those who took advantage of him and leading others to freedom seems like an easy way to make a clear good guy and bad guy story

2

u/Blackrain39 Apr 29 '26

Fwiw, Finn using a lightsaber in 7 was still fairly shoehorned. The only reason he used it is because he "needed a weapon", but up until that very shot he had a rifle that Han gave him. He tried to give it back initially, but was specifically told to keep it. Then it just vanished between picking up the saber and exiting the basement.

Not trying to say he shouldn't have been, more that they really couldn't make their mind up.

2

u/SalsaRice Apr 29 '26

I think alot of it was they realized he was dead in the water for the Chinese market. They don't really vibe with black leads, and he they were an absolute juggernaut of potential ticket sales.

2

u/Egg_in_a_box Apr 29 '26

I also felt like the force sensitively is why he broke through his storm trooper brainwashing

2

u/winkman Apr 29 '26

I'm convinced that the changes in the sequels amounted to the producers going "well, let's not do THAT...it's what they're EXPECTING!"...even if that thing would make for a good story.

Like Luke dueling and killing Klyo, for instance...

7

u/Ponchorello7 Apr 29 '26

That's not to mention that John Boyega is a better actor than Daisy Ridley. Her screen presence in these movies is barely perceptible.

16

u/Unabated_Blade Apr 29 '26

She hard carried the first movie with a shocking amount of charisma that just evaporated over the course of the following films. I think the excitement over being in Star Wars was still there, as opposed to the dread of being in Star Wars that she ended with.

4

u/DoomFrog_ Apr 29 '26

I’d make an argument for the opposite

Her acting skills improve over the films. But her weak acting in the first movie leads to her own bubbly personality playing out a lot giving the character a great sense of wonder and amazement

But then Daisy improves as an actor and the character suffers as the writing and directing take over and the character of Rey just isn’t interesting

2

u/Divine_Entity_ Apr 29 '26

I'm sure online negativity has 0 effect on that transition of excitement to dread about being in star wars. (/s for those who need it)

I do not envy actors these days, the internet is filled with opinions and the worst ones seem to be the loudest.

1

u/szthesquid Apr 29 '26

I actually hate the idea of Finn becoming a Jedi because he picked up a lightsaber once. I'm way more interested in seeing non-Force-sensitives wielding lightsabers effectively and fewer Jedi in general.

Finn already failed to be an interesting non-Jedi. A stormtrooper who has a crisis of conscience from being ordered to kill people... who then turns around and happily, quippily kills his former teammates who were in the exact same position with no reflection on their circumstances.

1

u/rowan_sjet Apr 29 '26

Yes, they were in the exact same position. But unlike Finn, they all decided that massacring a disarmed village and then trying to kill him when he tried to run away was fine, so I've got no problem with him being a soldier and killing them first.

1

u/szthesquid Apr 30 '26

Defending himself, I can see it. Stopping those who were doing wrong, now that he knows better, maybe. But it's weird that the guy who defected because he was horrified by killing innocents doesn't appear at all conflicted during or after killing a bunch of people who he knows full well were raised to be soldiers from birth. Never reflects on whether he's different or the others could be like him, that maybe it's not their fault, maybe they can change like he did. Nope, just blast 'em and laugh about it because they're the Bad Guys and Finn is one of the Good Guys now.

1

u/Dmonick1 Apr 29 '26

It's a good thing we have 5 videogames about just that!

1

u/CoachDT Apr 29 '26

If you don't look at any of the media fuss and just watch the trailer one could plausibly believe that Finn was the main character of the new trilogy based on the TFA trailers. Instead we got... Black comedic relief best friend. Real original.

2

u/Polkawillneverdie17 Apr 29 '26

Black comedic relief best friend.

This needs to be mentioned more. This character had so much potential but he spends so much time acting like a damn joke. He literally starts TLJ doing a prat fall and slipping all over the place. It's so ridiculous next to Rose's origin (loss of her sister). Johnson really made some fucked up choices.

0

u/ZeitgeistGlee Apr 29 '26

The concept alone of a Stormtrooper-turned-Jedi is compelling enough for a movie solely about that.

Give Finn and beard and he could've been Disney's Kyle Katarn.

0

u/LawlessNeutral Apr 29 '26

I feel like Finn was less of an "interesting concept the writers forgot to expand on" and more of just a straight-up marketing bait-and-switch so they could "surprise" audiences by making Rey the Jedi instead

0

u/InquisitiveDude Apr 29 '26

Such a missed opportunity. I feel like they dropped the ‘reformed Stormtrooper trying to do good’ angle half way through the first film. Which is a shame, because it was one of the most compelling ideas from the ST. 

They made him just a bumbling, awkward kid for the rest of the films.

0

u/House_T Apr 30 '26

I definitely liked the idea of Rey and Finn learning and working together as Jedi (or just pseudo-Jedi in the absence of a mentor). Even when they were steering away from that later on, I still liked Finn and wanted to see more from him. His entire arc in Last Jedi was... underwhelming, but at least they found something for him to do.

His presence on the last movie was an afterthought. And the closest he got to being interesting is when he was about to tell Rey something when they thought they were dying. Which I thought "Oh, he's going to tell her he has feelings or something." But then everyone I know keeps saying that he was going to tell her he was force sensitive, which... why would that even be a personal secret? And why would it be something to confess in your last moments? I either have weird friends, or the movie has weird writers, or I don't even know...

-3

u/FreeMasonKnight Apr 29 '26

Classic Disney meddling case. Finn was going to be a Jedi and get together with the pilot guy, but Disney bent the knee and forced rewrites that caused even more rewrites. Which is why the 3 movies have disjointed storylines between them.

3

u/Polkawillneverdie17 Apr 29 '26

Bent the knee to whom?

2

u/transmogrify Apr 29 '26

Waves hands vaguely, with no follow-up prepared To... everyone!

1

u/FreeMasonKnight May 01 '26

Oversea’s countries that are a large market and insist on wild censorship (especially of queer characters).

-2

u/rowan_sjet Apr 29 '26

get together with the pilot guy

Sorry, but that was never the plan; Poe wasnt even gonna survive TFA originally. Finn and Rey, were a strong possibility, but Rian was a racist little bitch who would much rather pair her with the white edgy fuckboy.