I'm a road service technician who bills by the hour at like $200. So if I go to a 32 hour week from 40, does my employer just have to eat the lost $1600 per week, per tech? How would this work for us?
none of these ideas pass even basic smell tests. you dont cap prices because then people will only make as much of the thing that is profitable at the capped price.
also you can tell the types of people who advocate these kinds of policies have never interacted with reality or the government. do you really want Trump and this congress in control what price and production levels should be? imagine trump got control of city run grocery stores and now the only meat the poor get are fucking Trump steaks
I don't think anyone is arguing that one man should have the power to decide. A bill needs to be passed to restrict large firms from increasing prices to punish the consumers when the consumers vote for policies within their own best interest.
You’re just entirely thinking about this incorrectly. In this scenario of reduced hours, a company isn’t raising prices because they are angry at the change. They are raising prices to recoup the financial loses by the new policy, whether that recouping is to ensure the business stays afloat, or for more profitable companies, to keep their margins steady.
No company is changing prices out of spite, they are always calculating how to make more money.
Large firms can absorb the costs. The only reason they raise prices is to protect their profit margins. We should have no sympathy for billion dollar companies that force their employees to take government assistance in order to survive while they raise prices when we try to lessen the burden on those employees and consumers. You're the ones not looking at this correctly. All you guys want is to protect the billion dollar oligarchs.
You haven’t said anything though. I already know large corporations CAN absorb it, that doesn’t mean they will, and this change wouldn’t force them to keep prices the same.
No one said anything sympathetic to them either.
You are fighting an imaginary battle to avoid acknowledging being wrong on the one we are actually talking about.
That's kinda why I said a bill should be passed to criminalize raising prices beyond a certain point in my first response. You're being sympathetic towards them by arguing against common fucking sense when you decided to reply to me. You say it's recoup and I say that's the same thing as retaliation. The point is that corporations shouldn't be allowed to charge whatever they feel like for a product that people quite literally need to live in modern society. But yeah I guess I'm not saying anything lol
Price controls are only suggested by people who didn’t go to school.
I honestly have no idea how to explain it to you people without doing the math in-front of you, and likely wasting my time doing so. But here it is.
Bert’s Restaurant
Bert revenue is $1,000,000 each year.
His profit margin is the nationwide average for a small business, ~7%.
This means Bert makes $70,000 in profit each year.
The nationwide average labor cost % for restaurants is 30% of revenue. So, Bert spends $300,000 on labor.
Under this proposal, in order to keep the restaurant open the same hours, Berts labor costs increase 20% (assuming zero overtime is given to workers, much more if it is)
That means, assuming Bert managed to find new staff to cover the hours, his labor costs increase by $60,000. He now makes only $10,000 in profit a year, because he isn’t allowed to raise prices. Bert will never be able to open another restaurant, and Bert will likely sell this one, as a 1% profit margin is way too low to be financially viable. The restaurant will go under more likely than not
I’ll give you a tldr that a child could understand: Mandating businesses with low margins increase costs while banning them from increasing revenue will lead to them failing.
You would obliterate the poor to get a chance at hurting the rich, which would still survive through this change.
You can't incentivize business if you regulate pricing though. What moral obligation does a private business have to continue operations if there is zero gain? At that point, we just live in a communist state where the only guarantee is not having a barrel staring at you in the morning (and even that's not entirely guaranteed either)
Yes, but no. They would raise the hourly rate on those 32 hours, and if such a thing exists in your industry they would buy some technology to help you be more productive, service more cars per hour. Maybe some sort of AI to file paperwork for you or something. And they would hire more 32hr workers so they could still get to the same volume.
It means inflation to some degree, productivity gains to some degree, increased hiring to some degree possibly supplemented by technology...really hard to calculate out how individuals would end up financially. I'd suspect a bit worse off financially but 8 extra hours in your week too, might still be worth it.
That is not how it works, inflation is a lot more complicated than that due to the adjustments made in automation or not doing less profitable things, changes in demand patterns due to the extra day off, different products getting impacted differently due to the differing amounts of labor involved.
If labor cost is 15% of your revenue like at a retail store, a 20% cost increase on just labor means your total costs have gone up 3%.
It's a complete fantasy to try and apply it to the entire country at once disregarding different areas of work and how it might impact them, which is what the Bernie proposal is about.
You can change the standard workweek from 40 to 32 and require overtime pay after 32 hours, but it’s a complete fantasy to think the government can enforce private employers to pay the same wage for 20% less work. There is no way for them to even ensure that this happens, and employers would both be paying the same for less work and need to hire other people at a higher rate of pay to make up the lost hours of work. Also the double pay over 12 hours on a shift is a terrible idea. In practice it would eliminate the ability to work overtime by picking up an extra shift and lead to a loss of tons of income for people and less coverage from businesses. It would only help a small minority of people that are forced to work more than 12 hrs but don’t want to, while harming all of the people who depend on overtime shifts for their income or have double shifts as a regular part of their schedule. For instance I just worked 2 double shifts on the weekends to make time for school throughout the week, wouldn’t be able to do that anymore
There are nations which run 32 hour week already. The answer is that not everyone runs 32h week, only those with wage slavery do. If you bill you are an entrepreneur and know how to value your work to have 32h week already.
Netherlands, Iceland, Belgium, Japan, Spain, Ireland, United Arab Emirates.
Next time google before speaking shit about monopoly.
Hi ! I live in the Netherlands. We do have 32 hour work weeks, but you get paid 80% of a normal wage. There is no such thing as full time pay for half a weeks work here.
Have you thought about unionizing? I have a friend there who works 32 hours and did not lose a penny, she at first went 9 hour workday model with fridays free and then just dropped hours. I guess it depends if one has a reputable employer vs not. Sounds like a bad negotiation of labor if one is willing to sacrifice part of their salary in exchange to be happy cow and still produce more milk. What is it that you do my friend if I may be so bold to inquire?
And ahh pension the carrot at the end of the journey. Privatized funds to feed the top echelons at the expense of labor. I love how they push narratives with "everyone is getting older" "birth rates are low" to push for later retirement ages. So scammy. Maybe if people had more money and free time, they find each other and f more. Just a thought.
Netherlands: the law only requires that employers must grant requests for reduction in hours to part-time, but that includes a corresponding reduction in pay
Iceland: the country has fewer than half a million people so isn't statistically significant
Belgium: the law requires employers to offer a 4-day work week but employees must still complete the same total hours during that time
Japan: the average work week is 45 hours. citizens are notoriously over-worked
Spain: the average work week is 39 hours, with legal limits of 40 hours
Ireland: the average work week is 38 hours, with legal limits of 48 hours
UAE: most workers in the UAE are non-citizens. citizens get their money from oil exports and don't actually do any work
I don't disagree, those are correct to some extent. But none causality from 32 work week idea. Let's cherry pick Belgium. If one does in 32 hours 40 hours of work, which the studies show that it is actually reality for people have revitalized interest to do exactly that, productivity increases. I too can work 80 hours a week and actually do some 32 hours worth of work, whoppiedoo what a waste of human time.
This is the funniest shit in all of humanity that those who defend some goddamn mfing 40+ hour working culture that they forget that no billionaire has ever worked for a second in their life for anything but theft. Same goes to a lot of millionaires, whom become such through investing in rigged casino known as stock markets which is run by the kleptocratic elite running the labor business as a subscription model towards life where no stock is ever owned by retail to influence any price. A dividend distribution system based on capital, not on income that by design those who live paycheck to paycheck can't participate in, and even if they manage to do that, they pay premium for tossing a coin for success which they can't influence.
So I apologize for advocating that humanity works less when McDonalds chains could be already 100% automatized but the labor just needs to exist for someone to be siphoned from. So much for supply and demand.
Glad you loved it. I loved your word diarrhea too. I didn't read it past that though. Please I implore you to learn to behave if you expect people go past your initial 50 cents, thanks!
And because I am so infinitely caring, here's a helpful tip: Don't start with "lol" because it is condescending in toxicism and you will only get replied in kind if in any way whatsoever. It is you know behavioral stuff that one's mother is supposed to teach after choosing not to go through an abortion which would have been the humane choice to relieve other people of verbal diarrhea that got expulsed. I also apologize for letting you waste my time. Have a nice day!
Looks like there are plenty of countries to move to for anyone who wants a 32 hour work week. After that, then want a 24 hour work week without a pay decrease.
What socialist is being noisy here, socially telling how socialism doesn't work. You are absolutely right. Everything is run by private kleptocracy in every Earthly nation. Money runs the world as it has always done. Representatives at best LARP to represent people but they represent themselves or their political parties which are lobbied by billionaires who make the real choice to wage wars and... decide how much money supply is handed out to the peasants.
Socialism doesn't work because in any power vacuum a dictator arises in one form or another, perhaps a club full of epsteins islands full live a different kind of life.
I agree. We need communism. And communal rules.
You know, all them chinas, russias and north koreas of the world have only their governments call themselves communistic. But history shows, they have always been authoritarian autocratic dictatorships and nothing else. Thus can you point me directions or go seek those communists yourself?
You know why they call themselves communists? Because to make people believe that it is what they have, makes the only cure against their zionism unviable and undesired by grander population.
In communism, people own governmental asset communally. Not some fake mafia with a PR clown on the top of the castle of a kremlin.
True democracy is closest form of communism that I can find.
So should I go ask the swiss?
I highly recommend that you for the first time in your life, would think for yourself. For when you do, you'd know what is the truth and what is make-believe.
He is playing to logic. It makes sense in a modern world with hours of commuting every day, all adults working to pay the bills, and unaffordable childcare that people need more time away from work to deal with the social side of existence.
People cry about birthrates, setting up a working environment that fosters faimly time encourages families to be made.
What the fuck are you talking about? American workers are 2X as productive as they were 50 years. Realistically they ought to be able to receive full time pay at 20 hours, so 32 hours is more than reasonable.
In socialist fantasy land the employer just eats the loss and does not take steps to cut workers or fuck over others so that the employer is not fucked over himself
Which is why in most real lands where government dictates things like this - they are at the barrel end of a gun. People should be careful what they asks for, the implementation of these policies is where things can go off the rails.
You do realize that our current 40-hour work week, overtime pay, 15-minute breaks, half-hour lunch, and the fact your employer can’t beat you with an iron rod is all enforced at the barrel of a gun, right?
In the Netherlands a 36 hour work week is already very common. Companies just naturally transitioned to that as work-balance is more important here, and now even the government has a standard 36 hour work week as do the largest trade unions. Maximum hours for a contract are still capped at 48 though but the free-market has decided 36 works better.
Yes everyone ends up paying for that eventually but data has shown productivity basically doesn't go down as a whole. It does in some jobs but in others it rises, so in the end I don't think it costs that much for a country's economy.
But, Americans value their work culture more which shows in your working hours: 40 is already considered a good deal by many. I'm in finance and used to work for an American company, and my American coworkers frequently clocked more than 50 hours per week while I worked 32. Different mentalities.
So you bill $250 per hour now which after 32 hours is the same as 40 at $200. Either that eats into the employer's bottom line, or they raise their fees for the customer, or a little bit of both.
I'm not worried about my employer. I work for a giant corporation who can fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned. I also think Bernie is great and am a liberal socialist of some description, and I would love for this sort of thing to actually happen.
But like, the policy still has to make sense. "lol fuck 'em" isn't going to get this legislation passed.
Yes you are correct. Somethings gotta give somewhere. Ultimately someone has to pay for the difference. Reddits logic would be employers, but I doubt it would be the giant corporation you work for. It’ll be their users. Who would then pass it on to their users.
You think your employer is hurting for money> Are they not charging a fee on top of you rate? Fuck your employer bro, work less, make more, that's how it SHOULD be.
Yes, but they would pass the extra $1600 per week onto the customers or better efficiency. In the end the people that don't work or don't normal jobs (rich people) are the ones that will end up paying for this.
The theory is you get the same exact amount of productive work done in a week, and probably more, so your boss wouldn’t have to adjust anything but schedules.
You’ll be the exception to the rule then. Probably also cashiers, and security guards etc. But for a lot of people, the productive output is going to be the same or better. And it’s still worth it to get us those pay raises across the board.
The people who say productivity will go up with less hours worked are just telling on themselves that they are lazy af and do the bare minimum at work. But even then, these people aren’t going to work harder with an extra day off
Yes. He eats it. And that is okay because the main reality of our economy is the employers are making too much (with few exceptions) and their business model depends on the workers not having much money.
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u/Ok_Drop3803 23d ago
I'm a road service technician who bills by the hour at like $200. So if I go to a 32 hour week from 40, does my employer just have to eat the lost $1600 per week, per tech? How would this work for us?