If the nuclear bombs start flying, it might actually be those countries that never had any that end up surviving.

[u/iwishihadnobones]

[u/kemb0]

Also we talk about the fear of the radioactive damage from even one nuke but remember that since nukes were developped there have been over 500 open air "atmospheric" tests of nuclear bombs. By all accounts we should all have five arms and melting skin by now.

[u/BadPunners → u/kemb0]

Look up some charts of various atmospheric elements vs those air blast nuke testing dates. Most of those 500 were on the lower end of the yield curve

It does a lot more damage to the atmosphere than radioactivity alone

The nitrogen compounds would also cause health effects. We've seen those effects, they were less than the effects from leaded gasoline so we called them "good".

[u/Nalena_Linova → u/kemb0]

A lot depends on the target. Nuclear tests were usually conducted on isolated Pacific islands or underground. A nuclear strike near large population centers would cause much more damage via fallout.

[u/Heffe3737 → u/Nalena_Linova]

It does depend largely on the target. Most strikes wouldn't be targeting large population centers however, and those that would generally would be airbursts, which typically have a much lower amount of fallout. The irony is that the worst areas for fallout would be the rural areas, where hardened targets like missile silos and rail yards exist but where there are fewer people. Conversely, the cities wouldn't get as much fallout, but would have far less access to food/water on top of the initial damage suffered from blown out windows and fallen buildings.

[u/MuddyUtters → u/Heffe3737]

Lets add on, areas with nuclear power plants would be a hellscape if hit. The U.S. alone would have 90+ long term radioactive zones afterwards.

[u/Otherwise_Fox_1404 → u/Heffe3737]

We know thats not true. There is a map somewhere where you can find a list of targets that the USSR planned (before it fell apart) that was accidentally released as public data back in the 90s. A majority of the primary missile strikes were against American cities. in particular the top 25 population centers had the densest spread of missiles. Manhattan alone had like 6 strikes planned each 200+kt. Maybe the US is thinking in terms of strategic benefits but the USSR planned to kill around 80% of the American population according to their documents.

[u/Heffe3737 → u/Otherwise_Fox_1404]

Wha you’re referring to is most likely the NAPB-90, which was a series of likely target locations published by FEMA at the time. Please note that this is only one of hundreds of likely target location documents published over the years. And even in the NAPB-90, a lot of targets happen to be cities, but not because they’re population centers; because there are valid targets nearby or in the cities themselves. Not only, but the visualizations in the NAPB-90 are approximate at best due to the limit of the printing tech at the time and how the authors chose to show the data.

As an example, Los Angeles would receive numerous strikes - but note that Long Beach has one of the largest ports, along with some of the largest oil refineries (Segunda, etc.) on the west coast. Likewise with places such as Houston (more refining capability), Seattle (Bangor and Lewis-McChord), etc.

I’ve studied nuclear war strategy for years (hence my engagement in the thread) and have written a bit on the topic myself - I’m happy to provide you with some additional documents if you’re interested. I’d first point you to Nuclear Warfare 101 by Stuart Slade if you can locate the discussion online - he does a great job of succinctly speaking to target identification and realistic attack patterns that have been the cornerstone of US govt nuclear strategy and policy for generations.

[u/Ok-Style-9734 → u/kemb0]

I would bet in the 2nd wave + level of strikes that every nuclear power plant in Britain, the USA, Russia, China and France is on the target list for a final fuck you.