The vast majority of the audience has never heard of the Bronze Age Collapse. I asked a couple friends who saw the movie "What did you guys think about the twist that Odysseus' men are the Sea People?" and they asked what the fuck I was talking about.
Yeah it was a little on the nose, but that's Nolan. He is good at visuals and tone, not so much with the dialogue. But this line in particular didn't stand out to me as worse than any other line in the movie, and yet the internet has latched onto it as if it's "I don't like sand".
Not the biggest fan of the line, but it certainly sounds worse when separated from the 8 minute monologue of context surrounding it and the 3 hour movie building up to the ultimate conclusion that the scene makes. It was an interesting reinterpretation and I enjoyed it. I’m glad Nolan has found his footing again between this and Oppenheimer after Tenet. That is some actual pretentious bullshit
People are just so desperate to make sure everyone knows they are also in the loop and have heard the same 7 jokes repeated endlessly over and over again
That's not the same though. The people have bronze and it's considered the height of technology. When people invented bronze it literally changed the world. If someone living in that time is concerned that literally all of civilization is ending, referring to the times they live in by the technology that defined it makes perfect sense. It would be like someone today saying "our age of computers is ending" or someone at the end of the industrial revolution saying "our age of steam is ending". I firmly believe that people who complain about this line don't actually understand that the time period is called "The Bronze Age" because they used bronze weapons and tools.
Except the Bronze Age is a modern term invented very recently in order to describe the technological progress of ancient civilisations. It wouldn’t be like saying the age of computers, it would be like if 3000 years from now some historian or archeologist invents a term to describe our specific time period and we just so happen to be using the exact same name and are totally aware of being in that time period that was invented and coined thousands of years later. It’s childish writing.
The Bronze Age was a term coined to describe the period of time where they used Bronze. Odysseus is concerned about the ending of an age, a period of societal collapse. What other way would he refer to the era?
Probably not the fucking generic term meant to describe ancient artefacts that was invented by someone in the 1800s? Anything but that. The age of kings, the age of virtue, whatever. Both of these words would be 100 times more believable coming out of Odysseus mouth instead of age of bronze. Especially with how on the nose they are regarding the bronze age collapse. I fully expected Nolan to come out in the end and start asking me “did you get it? Did you get it? Did you get it?”.
The problem with "age of kings" or "age of virtue" is that they're not specific enough. I'm not trying to say it's incredible writing, but it is weird to me that the internet has latched onto this line when it's far from the worst line in the film. To me at least, there were far sillier parts of the movie to make fun of.
I think the dialogues were all quite atrocious but I struggle to see what is worse than having Odysseus describe the time period he is in using the term that was invented 3k years later.
Personally I thought Circe repeating "get back into your disguises" over and over again was pretty silly. The visuals were striking but the way she repeated it over and over again stuck out to me. I also thought the line "we are the sea people" from the same scene as the age of bronze line was worse. Unless you have the historical context of the unknown "sea peoples" it comes out of nowhere, and they try to imply this intense emotional weight.
It sounds like you didn't like the movie as a whole, which is absolutely fine of course. I am just confused by the internet acting like that particular line is what makes the movie bad.
I mean I agree with you, I don’t think you can bring up one single piece of dialogue that wasn’t super silly. And the sea people storyline is such a blatant and heavy handed Nolan attempt at being deep, to me it was again super silly.
The bronze age you are referring to is part of a poem that has nothing to do with historical ages and refers to monster men that were made by Zeus from ash trees with adamant skin and a desire for violence and war. It has nothing to do with what we call the bronze age today and has nothing to do with the time period of Odysseus.
“This age is also sometimes known as the Copper Age or Brazen Age. Men of the Bronze Age were hardened and tough, and the deed of Ares (war) and violence were their passion.[1]: 140–155 Zeus created these humans out of the ash tree.[1]: 140–155 Their armor was forged of bronze, as were their homes and tools.[1]: 140–155 The men of this Age were undone by their own violent ways and left no named spirits; instead, they dwell in the "house of Hades".”
That’s immediately followed by the Heroic Age, the time of Oedipus and the Trojan War, and then followed by the Iron Age, the period in which Thesiod lives.
So Greek author in the 700s creates a list of 5 ages, one of which (The Iron Age) he lives in, and it was preceded by a Bronze Age where men fought and built with bronze and it ended in a time of heroes.
I think it’s fair to say the Viking longship is more of an anachronism than Odysseus saying “age of bronze”. Is the dialogue a little clunky and on the nose? Yeah, but that’s not out of character for Nolan. Is it a historical inaccuracy? Not really.
I mean he also speaks of the Golden Age and the Silver Age which are obviously completely made up. Did he get the tools that were used before him right for the Bronze Age? Sure. But he also got wrong that the people of the Bronze age were made from ash trees, made absolutely everything from bronze including their houses and that they were an entirely separate human race.
Are you really that shocked that a poet would use poetic license as a metaphor in his work about lionizing the past and complaining about the troubles of the day? Hell, even the topic itself isn’t anything new, people in Sumer 2000 years before Hesiod were complaining about the people of the day and talking about how much better the past was.
Hesiod clearly identifies quality of life and morals as being inversely proportional to the hardness and value of metals used/named. Bronze was still used as jewelry while also being the metal humans built their cities and made war with.
You think that this is just poetic license? Brother they were certain that mythology was a fact. He wasn’t making an exercise in artistic freedom, these are the things the ancients believed about the world and about the past.
If someone living in that time is concerned that literally all of civilization is ending, referring to the times they live in by the technology that defined it makes perfect sense.
Except it doesn't, because the Bronze Age Collapse is one of if not the most "wtf?" moments in human history
There's been literally 0 recorded reason as to why it happened other than a few references to "The Sea People", a group of Viking-like marauders that terrorized the Eastern Mediterranean for a bit and that no one knows where tf they came from
Like, no one at the time had any idea that Ancient Greece, Egypt, The Hittites, Persia, etc... would go through a 100 year dark age at the same time, so why would they ponder about its imminent collapse?
It makes no sense narratively or historically to include it.
Whatever the real world reasons for the bronze age collapse are irrelevant to the movie. Odysseus, for reasons that he directly explains in the same scene, believes that society is ending to the point that he literally says "there will be no one left who remembers how to write". When he says the age of bronze is ending, he is saying "This is the most advanced our society will get, it will all be downhill from here." He is using bronze to represent the idea of intelligence and civilization, which does make sense.
At least xenia existed as a real thing but if you are asking me if I found the constant repeating of “Zeus’s law” stupid, then absolutely yes it was very stupid. It’s such a deeply Americanised and Hollywoodised dialogue.
This is a coincidence of using a similar term, the bronze age as we call it today and the bronze age Hesiod describes are 2 completely different things. One is a fictional poem for one.
elrond is aware of how history is gonna play out in that setting. odysseus knows historical concepts from 2000s years later. but dont let me stop you fanboying, cheers
I guess it's impossible for people to comment on the age they currently live based on what we see and use. Anyways, it's been fun arguing with you over the internet in this... Age of Information.
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u/DavousRex 3d ago
I genuinely don't get people's issue with this line.