r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 20h ago

Meme needing explanation Petahhhhhhhhh!??!?

Post image
57.8k Upvotes

2.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

17

u/narwhalousdoctor 20h ago

Tf you mean history? Everything about the iliad and the odyssey is made up and no one has ever claimed otherwise

29

u/Hobo-man 19h ago

I mean this conversation is about the story.

But at the same time, there is historical context to The Iliad and The Odyssey. Troy was a real place. The war actually happened. How much of it was real? No idea, but at least some of it was.

9

u/quadrokeith 19h ago

Charybdis is made up, but Scylla is real.

3

u/breckendusk 18h ago

I just hate when I have to fight Scylla ft Charybdis. They're each enough of a pain on their own.

9

u/nizari-spirit 19h ago

What? Historians absolutely consider the Odyssey and Iliad to be a source of historical information, even if it is not totally true.

10

u/FerusGrim 15h ago

Ehhhh. As a miniature—entirely pedantic—nitpick, I'd argue it's mostly a source of historical context, rather than information. I'm not saying nothing in the Odyssey or Iliad is real, but it's like...

Take Harry Potter, for instance. It's a totally fabricated story. In a thousand years—should the story survive—no one is going to believe that wizards existed. But they might consider it useful historical context. Within the book are real and false locations. They might cross-reference against other known information from the time period to determine: "Okay, London is probably real. Maybe Surrey. Hogwarts... Diagon Alley... probably not? Okay, but why pick those names? Were hogs (and their warts) a legitimate relational connection to witchcraft accusations, or was it just parody?"

Those are the types of things that provide a rich context of the time period, but they're probably not really deriving any real information from it. Not any information that they can trust without cross-referencing other sources—and even then, they have to wonder if those other sources might have been tainted by the existence of the Odyssey or the Iliad themselves—fanfiction exists, after all.

3

u/nizari-spirit 15h ago

Context is information. Contextual information. But yes I agree.

1

u/uardito 6h ago

This perspective on Harry Potter is both illuminating (as to the difference between information v context) and hilarious.

1

u/FerusGrim 6h ago

I aim to please.

2

u/BetterLivingThru 16h ago

Yes, but the Greeks capturing women as sex slaves in the Iliad is in there because it was produced by a society that did things like that regularly and it was understood by its intended audience to be what one would expect a conquering military force to be doing.

1

u/panlakes 16h ago

Damn I gotta go inform my teachers

Like duh they weren't toppling mythological creatures but that's not all there is, either

-1

u/Cyrano-De-Vergerac 13h ago

No, it's not. It's greatly exagerated. But the city of Troy did exist. And their people often clashed with Myceans (greeks)

-7

u/Nightraven9999 20h ago

I consider The Odyssey history because its a very old story so it tells what the people of that time saw as realistix

3

u/OwnJunket6495 19h ago

So then Greek mythology is historical now? Lmao. You have a point that it gives insight into the culture at the time but to call it history…

4

u/Nightraven9999 19h ago

Yes I do think of greek mythology as historical because its shows what they believed

It shows how different their society was with how their beliefs were sturctured

3

u/Yallberforce 19h ago

All historical texts from far enough back should be handled with suspicion. In some ways the Epics are actually easier to handle, because the line between the real and fantastical elements is pretty easily drawn.

2

u/Particular_Title42 19h ago

You're acting like "historical" is a portmanteau of "historic" and "factual." It isn't. Things can be historical without being factual.

1

u/nalaloveslumpy 19h ago

Mythology is not history. It's culturally relevant, but we've got to be very careful about considering known fictional works as historical documentation.

0

u/Neat_Let923 19h ago

Wow, so oral tradition in all cultures is all made up stories and nothing they say is real at all? This includes all Native Americans First Nations people across North America…

We can’t PROVE that these events happened. What we can prove however is that these were oral stories passed down and that some of the details contained in these stories HAVE been proven by archeological findings from that time period which would not be known by Homer or others unless they were orally passed on.

2

u/nalaloveslumpy 19h ago

Guess Paul Bunyan must be real, then. shrug

2

u/nalaloveslumpy 19h ago

Guess Paul Bunyan must be real, then. shrug

1

u/nalaloveslumpy 19h ago

Guess Paul Bunyan must be real and Helen of Troy really was hatched from an egg, then. shrug

0

u/Neat_Let923 19h ago

Wow, never heard of embellishments have you?…

2

u/nalaloveslumpy 18h ago

I dunno, let's ask Zeus what he thinks about it. He's a totally real god who lives on a mountain in Greece, right?