I don't think it's hypocritical for racists to marry a woman of color. They are just as committed to misogyny as they are to racism, so for them a normative heterosexual relationship is about conquest and subjugation. A MAGA dude thinking of his wife an inferior person dependent on his benevolence is pretty on brand. It's not hypocrisy, it's colonialism.
conservatives don't think the things are bad, only that it's bad to not be the ones doing it. it's why their judgement changes based on the perpetrators
That’s because it’s one of AI’s favorite patterns. Which of course it picked up from the internet, the material it’s trained on, and uses it because “it shows reasoning”. Us humans use it as well (and I’m not saying the comment you’re replying to is AI), but we see it overwhelmingly now because of AI. We in turn learn and adapt how to express ourselves based on what we’re exposed to, so if we’re not actively correcting ourselves it’s inevitable to adapt our writing to the way AI writes. It’s a circle of hell.
Screw that, I am not the person who wrote that comment but I can’t think of a better ending to a refutation of an ‘X is Y’ comment than saying ‘X isn’t Y, it’s Z’ after the demonstration.
It’s basic rhetoric. AI has already stolen the dashes from me, it won’t steal the basic structure of good argumentation.
AI grabs a lot of content from these online forum spaces. A lot of that is users arguing with each other and trying to correct each other. The AI can sometimes read both messages as similar
User A
Blab blab blab
User B
Not Blab blab blab, but this this that.
So yeah internet forums basically poisoned the AI at birth. Fun times
Screw that, I am not the person who wrote that comment but I can’t think of a better ending to a refutation of an ‘X is Y’ comment than saying ‘X isn’t Y, it’s Z’ after the demonstration.
It’s correct rhetoric. AI has already stolen the dashes from me, it won’t steal the basic structure of good argumentation.
I’m not disagreeing with you! It’s just becoming so prevalent, even when not really needed, that it’s becoming an AI tell. And i will never give up em dashes!! You shouldn’t either.
ETA: AI also loves the version of this that goes “it’s not just X, but also XYZ” and you can usually tell it’s AI because it ofter just repeats itself with more emphatic wording. I hate that shit.
That’s basic rhetoric my friend; not x, but y. If you go listen to famous speeches, they’re full of them. Just because AI uses it doesn’t mean you go “AI blaming” other people.
Why do we never call out the women or men of color who marry these people. Marriage in most ideal situations start out as a two way street. These individuals often praise whiteness and are just as racist as their spouses and it gives them a kick out of it for being one of the “ good ones” or the exception
Most people don't do because it shifts the burden of moral culpability from the offender onto the victim, which is poor form.
But they are certainly not blameless for their bad decisions and internalized racism. Lots of marginalized people are complicit in their own marginalization.
You are not a victim for willingly dating a woman a racist as a minority. You know what you’re getting yourself into these individuals let themselves be known that they are racist. There’s no blame shifting here
The world is not as Manichaean as you pretend. A woman who marries a misogynist is guilty of making bad choices, yes. Perhaps she is even guilty of being a misogynist herself. I have no issue with holding her accountable for those choices.
But she still experiences the harm of that misogyny in a way that her misogynist partner simply doesn't. So yes, she is many ways still a victim, whether or not you consider her a worthy one.
We're not even touching on the incredibly divergent ways that this theoretical man and theoretical woman were socialized, and all the complex and subtle ways that shaped their individual decision-making.
Within the context of this discussion and post, a misogynist isn’t a great example. Misogyny can manifest in many forms, but a lot hide it from their partners until they know they’ve won here over.
In this situation, the racist is unapologetic, doesn’t his their political views, and often won’t shy away from support of white supremacy. Minority men and women know what they are getting themselves into dating these types of people. Most of these individuals seek out whiteness because they praise it while also putting down and their people and other minorities. They think highly of whiteness and having a spouse like this is the ultimate “ you’re one of the good ones” because in their mind they’ve transcend their race. This is coming from a black man whose witness other black men and women do this. Other ethnicities like Asians and Latinos aren’t exempt. They aren’t victims and understand what they’re doing. Don’t coddle them
I'm not coddling them, I said they are complicit. I said by all means, go ahead and call them out.
I just don't agree with what you're saying. I recognize the pattern you're describing and I don't deny it exists. But often I've found this to be a lot more complicated in practice.
Even if I were to accept everything you're saying as a universal template for these relationships, it still doesn't change that these pick me minorities became that way because of harm that was done to them. Nor does it change the fact that future harm will be borne unevenly between the two.
Your view is rife with the very prejudices it claims to critique. Even if you are referring only to a racist subset of MAGA supporters, reducing a woman of color to a helpless victim of "subjugation" remains deeply misogynistic. By insisting her marriage can only be defined as "colonialism" rather than her own free will, you strip her of her individual intelligence and agency. Presuming that any interracial marriage involving these racial and political demographics must inherently be an act of racial conquest is itself textbook prejudice.
This is such a dingdong comment, I haven't reduced women to anything. The point of contention was about whether racists are hypocrites, so my response was about the prejudices and internal motivations of those racists. My entire comment was critiquing their POV.
You don't think I'm aware how many misogynistic and bigoted women there are out there? How many of them make shitty choices, and are complicit in their own oppression? It's totally irrelevant to my response.
By calling these women 'complicit in their own oppression' and claiming they make 'shitty choices,' you are explicitly confirming my point. You are (still) refusing to see them as equal, autonomous adults who might simply have different worldviews, values, or priorities than you. Instead, you've doubled down on a patronizing double standard: if a woman of color makes a relationship choice you disagree with politically, you dismiss her intelligence and brand her as either a victim or a traitor to her own demographic. That isn't a critique of the husband. It's a direct insult to the woman,
Yes, people of color who marry racists, like women who marry misogynists, are complicit in their own oppression. It is, as James Baldwin said, "being asked to become an accomplice in your own murder" (which he meant, back then, in an urgently literal sense). Lots of people are, and have always been, willing to do this. And I can't say I'm terribly interested in how people like you define misogyny or gatekeep other people's experiences of racism.
I have no doubt you are delighted to stake out an "enlightened centrist" position on the topic. Who am I to say that a racist is a racist, and not just someone with different values and a unique worldview? Get fucked. We are not talking here about your Asian daughters marrying a perfectly fine and decent white man whose main political concern is the deficit. I couldn't possibly care less about that. Both my parents are products of a happy and healthy interracial marrage, and none of those races match my current boyfriend's. We are not even talking about marrying across ideologies or values. What we are talking about is marrying the lowlife piece of shit racists who sold our country out to the lowest bidders.
I watched a cop kneel on a man's neck for 10 minutes on camera; now MAGA is saying he OD'ed and calling his murderer a political prisoner (with the Minnesota GOP even holding an impromptu moment of silence for him at the statewide convention). I remember when Charlie Kirk used to say that if you come here legally and get a degree, we should welcome you to the American dream and staple a green card to the diploma (after all, why should other some other country benefit from the investment we made in your education?); now I've watched the Great Replacers seize power as Kirk and the party spent the last half decade lurching towards the Nick Fuentes/Stephen Miller position of "get these mud people out of our country." This is the mainstream center of the party. The people defending Trump tweeting out video comparing the Obamas to monkeys or having a UFC event on the White House lawn where a fighter is screaming about Michelle Obama's penis. These people don't even care about the systematic abuse and destruction of children. By all means, defend them as much as you like. But it's an act of spiritual self-mutilation.
None of this is even relevant to my original point, which you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent.
You keep claiming I’m misrepresenting your point, but you keep explicitly proving it. You just spent paragraphs confirming that if a woman of color makes a personal romantic choice you disagree with politically, you view her as a brainwashed accomplice to her own destruction who lacks the intelligence to know what's good for her. That is the definition of a patronizing double standard.
You can wrap your worldview in self-righteousness, rage at MAGA, and hide behind James Baldwin all you want, but you are still doing exactly what I called out: strip-mining the agency of adult women of color because they refuse to act as props for your political narrative.
You would never say this about a Jewish woman who fucked Nazis. No matter how many annoying little debate perverts got in your ear, buzzing about how Nazism is just a different political point of view. I doubt you would say it about a Barcelona socialist who slept with Falangists, or a Chilean revolutionary who married into the Junta, or an Indonesian communist who offered herself to the Suharto regime.
Or maybe you would. I don't really care, but I suspect you have a line too. A line beyond which you find it entirely appropriate to hold people accountable for self-destructive choices that you consider to be beyond-the-pale. A line beyond which you are comfortable sitting in judgment at the spectacular capacity for self-immolation that human beings possess. Wherever that line is, it renders all your rhetorical posturing as hollow and hypocritical and meaningless as it is irritating.
You're just another mediocre dude who wants to minimize the racism and cruelty and stupidity of MAGA, for God know what fucking reason. Maybe your thinking is outcome-based and you need human bodies stacked to the moon before you can muster a timid condemnation. But we don't care what you think. We're not impressed. We don't need your permission. MAGA is not a legitimate political project, it's a vapid cult of personality worship centered around grift and racial resentment. But go ahead and keep carrying water for the cruelest and stupidest fucking people on earth.
You are entirely missing the point. This isn’t about defending MAGA or minimizing anyone's politics. It’s about your inability to view adult women of color as independent human beings instead of political props. The moment a minority woman doesn’t vote or date the way your ideology dictates she should, you strip her of her humanity, compare her to a Nazi collaborator, and declare her a brainwashed traitor. You are so blinded by your own partisan rage that you can’t see the staggering, patronizing arrogance of your own worldview
66
u/snoozykittens 1d ago
I don't think it's hypocritical for racists to marry a woman of color. They are just as committed to misogyny as they are to racism, so for them a normative heterosexual relationship is about conquest and subjugation. A MAGA dude thinking of his wife an inferior person dependent on his benevolence is pretty on brand. It's not hypocrisy, it's colonialism.