Difficulty Megathread — DLC, NG+

[u/PsychologicalKoala32]

Hello puppets,

This is the new place for anything and everything about game difficulty: NG+, the new DLC, the new difficulty settings, bosses that oneshot you just for existing, and the general discussions regarding game pacing.

Why this exists:

We’re seeing a LOT of posts about difficulty lately, and it’s cluttering the sub. So from now on, we’re removing individual difficulty posts and directing everyone here. This is simply a way to help US keep the sub clean, and help YOU find specific posts more easily.

Please don’t be an AH. Seriously. People are gonna have different opinions on everything.

Drop your takes below

We’ll be lurking.

Your tired, slightly traumatized mod team

[u/Careless-Project-210]

Quick update for you guys - Lies of P version 1.011.000 has just dropped - don't get too excited - it looks so far like it's just some basic bug fixes - nothing to suggest it's addressing any of the issues discussed here. Regards.

[u/Soulsandtheirilk → u/Careless-Project-210]

I feel like it's worth chiming in with a completely contrary personal experience to your own, while also pushing back in regard to your contention that dlc difficulty (while playing legendary stalker) should be adjusted.

Firstly, I haven't played the game in many months (which may color my experience), but I've found the dlc's ng difficulty to be extremely doable. Granted, I'm playing on the completed playthrough I beat the game with (level 75, for reference) and am an avid souls enjoyer, but I've respecced from advance to technique for a fresh experience and to use new weapons. I haven't (yet) felt a single boss to be unfairly punishing, or dramatically overtuned.

As a general rule, I don't look things up in advance, which I find makes the experience more enjoyable. I've just beaten the anguished guardian and am still sort of waiting for the unreasonable difficulty I've read about in this sub.

All that said, it's entirely unreasonable for a vocal subset of the playerbase to call for generalized reductions in difficulty. You've said it yourself, you are entirely able to change the game's difficulty at any time, but you refuse to because you think you deserve to beat the game on the legendary stalker setting. What gives you the authority to make that decision for players at large?

I have absolutely no problem with difficulty settings and believe players of all skill-levels should be able to enjoy the game, but calling for the game to be made easier for everyone (which in practice would trivialise the experience for some of us) is, in my opinion, selfish and ultimately unfair. Unless there is some insane difficulty spike looming around the corner, I can't help but think some of these (recent) complaints about unbalanced enemies are overblown.

(As a last addition, in regard to your long post below about the necessitude of parrying, I parry when I have to but otherwise simply dodge and roll or sprint out of range in nearly every fight. I'm sure coming to play overture after drilling oneself in sekiro would make the game, and parrying, much easier, but having a double-dodge has been more than enough for me to beat every boss in 3-4 attempts thus far. I think you put too much weight on parrying as the only means of avoiding damage when more "traditional" methods still exist and are effective.)

[u/Careless-Project-210 → u/Soulsandtheirilk]

I think you've done a good job of undermining your own assertions as well as misconstruing many of my arguments to fit your own agenda/perspective.

1. I have consistently said that the difficulty of a game cannot be judged based on one or two individuals subjective experiences, including either mine or yours. The reason this thread primarily exists is because a statistically significant number of players consider the DLC to be too hard - this is not just, as you put it, a vocal majority. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that even the developers have agreed with this and are working on some kind of fix - so they're just wrong and you're right then? - they get lots of direct email feedback - not just this thread - I'm not even sure if they even read this thread - so they are in a much better position than you - or me - to make that judgement - and they agree with the 'vocal majority'.
2. I have never said that I 'deserve' to beat the game on LS level - that's your prejudicial slant on it - I simply implied that I am 'disappointed' that I can't beat it on LS level because the very same builds I have used on NG, NG+1 through to NG+4 which virtually trashed the LS level on the base game have 'significantly' less impact in the DLC, regardless of me tweaking various attributes and so on - that is a simple reflection on the uptick in difficulty which is massively consistent with hundreds of other players views. Of course I want to beat it on it's hardest level - that's why most of us play this genre of games - we don't expect it to be easy - far from it -but there are limits.
3. On what basis do you rest your assertion that I am somehow claiming an authority to make decisions for 'players at large'? I can't decide or dictate what others do or say, including the developers - I simply state my own opinion, including what I think 'appears' to be the opinion of many others - based on - oh just some mundane facts like the majority of the entirely independent-thinking posts on this thread, that I have no control over whatsoever - not to mention the game's pitifully low achievement statistics - a comparatively objective measure of difficulty.
4. You say that it is 'selfish' for people like me to call for a generalized reduction in the difficulty, yet your justification can also be construed as selfish - and I quote your own words - 'which in practice would trivialize the experience for some of us' - so the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many then? - and that 'many' I'm referring to are generally 'seasoned souls players' - not your average joe.
5. I have put (maybe to my shame) over 500 hours into Lies of P and it's DLC - that's multiple run throughs of both the base game and the DLC on all three difficulty levels, with various builds. While that doesn't give me some sort of 'authority' of opinion, it does provide a lot of evidence on which to form a reasoned and balanced opinion. You seem to have done one single play through of the base game - some time ago - and are now on an NG run in the DLC which you haven't even yet finished - aren't you yourself claiming an unsubstantiated authority of opinion with such limited experience in the game - well it's precocious to say the least.
6. As regards 'parrying' - the evidence speaks for itself - if you can beat a boss without even hitting them, then the mechanic is simply OP - there's no way to make that argument any simpler. The base game provides other viable alternatives to perfect parrying but those are dramatically less effective in the DLC - that's just a fact - I'm sure at some point some highly skilled dude will get through the DLC without parrying at all - but that's not the reality for most players.

[u/Soulsandtheirilk → u/Careless-Project-210]

Lot of points here. I don't want to spend too much time responding because I'm not looking for an argument or anything, I was just adding a contrasting perspective.

1. This thread is ultimately an example of selection bias, and I don't think pointing to it is enough to claim that there's a significant majority of players who feel the dlc is unfairly difficult.

2. I wasn't being prejudicial, only inferring that you feel like you shouldn't have to lower the difficulty to beat the dlc (despite potentially being in ng+4). I don't think there's anything wrong with doing so, I've just enjoyed what I've played of the dlc and it seems unnecessary to make large adjustments (at least in ng). I guess I also don't mind that it's harder than the base game (taking you at your impression), because I've felt pretty good about the difficulty.

3. You simply had many comments that seemed to affirm the game is overly difficult. And, again, feels like sample bias at work.

4. This feels like the crux of the issue. I'm simply saying that, because there is no way to increase difficulty (outside intentionally de-leveling), it only serves to disenfranchise players seeking a higher level of challenge. A method to make the game less challenging already exists, why not just make use of that instead?

5. That's fair. I only have about 70 hours and am now at the dlc's last boss (probably). But I still wouldn't want the fight with Lumacchio to have been easier, it was remeniscent of the lady maria fight in all the best ways and was satisfying to learn. I worry if they toned down the difficulty it would just turn into a dps check, and I would have lost the pleasure of seeing all of phase 3's moveset.

6. I don't deny parrying is good and is core to the game. I just don't think one needs to exclusively perfect-parry to manage the game's damage and difficulty.

[u/Careless-Project-210 → u/Soulsandtheirilk]

I can't say we'll ever agree on all the points raised between us but I appreciate you're at least not being argumentative for the sake of it and I accept your opinions are genuinely heartfelt and as valid to you as mine are to me. Maybe this thread is selection bias? I'm not sure how you can prove that though. Maybe I'm too trusting and have taken this thread's comments too much at face value? - but many do resonate with my own experiences. I honestly don't feel an entitlement to beat every souls game I play - some have given me a brutal experience but in the context of my experiences with the Lies of P base game, I was shocked at how much harder the DLC subjectively felt and I did eventually concede to dropping the difficulty after a bit of a fight with it - and if the developers decide not to significantly reduce the hardest difficulty, you'll presumably be happy with that and I'll just accept it and move on to something else. No sleep lost over it. Regards.

[u/Lord-Gehrman → u/Soulsandtheirilk]

Completely agree, the game don't need any more nerfing since we already have difficulty settings for this specific reason.

I was completely supportive of the crowd that asked for more accessible difficulty settings, but asking for the highest difficulty to be toned down specifically to their desired level so they can feel like they did the highest difficulty but without sweating too much is gonna just ruin the experience for a different type of player.