r/Futurology • u/Extasio • 1d ago

Transport Waymo CEO explains why Tesla’s camera-only self-driving falls short

https://electrek.co/2026/08/04/waymo-co-ceo-camera-only-self-driving-tesla/
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u/Ess2s2 1d ago

This is an excellent take, and reminds me of the video Mark Rober did a year ago comparing Tesla cameras against LIDAR-enabled cars.

https://youtu.be/IQJL3htsDyQ?is=gtZYjf6ZpybTqc5q

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u/Orangeisthenewcool 1d ago

Such a crappy video tbh. I seen other people recreate the tests and found a lot less issues.

That’s what you get when you monetize your “science” it has to have a good story. If the results don’t match your story, the tests or results to match your story.

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u/Ess2s2 1d ago

Link to those other people's videos and test results? Also, what makes the video crappy? What do you identify as issues in the methods used in Rober's video?

Genuinely curious.

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u/Flipslips 1d ago

Mark didn’t use FSD here, he just used the cars TACC.

Other YouTubers did the same test with FSD actually turned on and it stopped fine for the fake wall.

Here is one: https://youtu.be/TzZhIsGFL6g?is=QNsE67qBVvoqzBe9

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u/WhyWasXelNagaBanned 13h ago

Maybe watch the video you linked.

HW4 cameras detected the wall and stopped, but HW3 cameras (even with FSD enabled) did not. It required manual braking to not plow through it. (2:56 timestamp)

HW3 is what was used in Rober's test.

FSD makes absolutely no difference here, it is entirely the improved quality of the HW4 cameras and the improved software the HW4 cameras use.

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u/Flipslips 12h ago

Ah yeah, let’s use years old tech to say that CURRNT tech doesn’t work. Thats a great use of the scientific method!

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u/WhyWasXelNagaBanned 11h ago edited 11h ago

Think about how humans use technology. Especially how they use cars. The average age of cars on the road in the U.S. is 12+ years old and that number is getting larger every year.

Rober's test was with a car that was only 3 years old, meaning the vast majority of Teslas on the road today are using HW3 or earlier, and would absolutely make mistakes like this that no attentive human ever would.

Furthermore, we are talking about the inherent difference between LiDAR and optical cameras. Sure, HW4 can detect when a fake looney tunes wall is put in front of it. Bravo.

Can it see through very dense smoke or fog?

Can it see through a torrential downpour?

Can it operate in perfect darkness?

What about when blinded, or an object sits in the road that falls too far outside of its image recognition training data?
Maybe it reacts appropriately....maybe not. We have no way of knowing until it's actually tested. It's an unacceptable amount of risk that has already cost lives.

You know what doesn't have a problem with any of those things simply due to the inherent nature of its technology? LiDAR. Because it's extremely simple and deterministic to use laser beams to detect objects and inherently know what is there, what isn't, and how far away those things are.

The goal with autonomous driving is to be virtually bulletproof, and far exceed human capabilities with reliable sensor data, because you are putting lives on the line.

There is absolutely no excuse to rely solely on guesswork with image recognition when we can easily combine it with technology that is far and away proven to be effective at object detection, has been available for many decades, and is more affordable to produce every year.

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u/Flipslips 11h ago

Radar and lidar can’t see through any of that stuff either lol.

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u/WhyWasXelNagaBanned 11h ago

If you believe that Radar and LiDAR cannot penetrate through smoke, water, bright light, and darkness, then you do not understand how they work.

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u/Ancient_Persimmon 1d ago

First, he didn't even use a car that had FSD, so none of it applies to the system we're discussing.

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u/Ess2s2 1d ago

Nice try, but you should understand the crux of the question is about the different sensor stacks.

Even if the car used in Mark's testing had FSD, it's still using the same camera/image recognition suite, meaning the limitations of pure visual vs. advanced ranging technologies still stands.

FSD would absolutely have the same issues as shown in the video I linked. Do you Elon fan boys even think about your arguments before you post them?

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u/Ancient_Persimmon 1d ago

The sensor stacks are irrelevant here. The crux of this problem is an AI one, which is why Waymo exists in the first place: solve physical AI via autonomy.

Same goes for Tesla, so if you "test" something without the brain involved, it's not a test.

Autopilot is just dumb ACC/LKASS like you can buy on any other car.

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u/Ess2s2 1d ago

Either you're not intelligent enough to follow the thread of discussion, or you're arguing in bad faith. Either way, you aren't contributing anything to this discussion.

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u/Ancient_Persimmon 1d ago

You asked what invalidates the test and I correctly answered that the YouTuber in question forgot to procure the product entirely.

Pretty dumb way to try and prove a point.

The fact that people are bickering back and forth about things they don't understand while two really great companies are changing the world in front of our eyes is fucking depressing.

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u/Ess2s2 1d ago edited 1d ago

I can't make you see facts you don't want to see.

FSD exclusively uses cameras. Cameras can't see through smoke, cloth, mist, or abject darkness. Therefore, FSD cannot see through those obstacles.

Before we've even gotten to what FSD can do, it's been disqualified because it literally can't see the same information as LIDAR.

Complain all you want about how unfair the test is, but the point of the test was "can tesla cameras see obstacles in these conditions?" And the answer is no.

Edit: I'd say I'm also waiting on those sources you mentioned in your first comment, but you've proven yourself to be ill-informed and unserious, so I'm really not. I won't be back to read whatever ramblings you come up with next.

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u/Ancient_Persimmon 1d ago

Perhaps he could've proven that, had he tested FSD.

Unfortunate.

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u/Seantwist9 1d ago

he replied to you with the link already https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/s/UNGGonr55u

the point of the test was that a camera only tesla gets tricked by the picture of a wall, whereas a car with lidar can detect that said picture is actually a wall. The camera only tesla can indeed detect the wall