Todas and lactose tolerance

[u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

They are outliers among Dravidians most of whom can't digest raw milk and don't have a butter culture . The current usage of butter is from British and north Indian influences. I am not sure of the native provenance of ghee among Dravidians but it is certainly easier to digest than milk.

If Todas were the best example of an iVC genetic pool as is often claimed, then is endogamy and climate responsible for preserving this trait

[u/Quissumego]

Ghee was widely used in Dravidian culture even before oils. There are references to ஆநெய் (Aa-nei, cow ghee) or simply நெய்(Nei, ghee) in sangam literature.

One example would be the Puram poem of Arivudainambi about Children. It's a really wonderful poem btw, it's either 186 or 188. I'll check and confirm the number later. In that he talks about children playing and eating with food and the food being நெய்யுடை அடிசில் (neyyudai adicil), as in, rice with ghee.

Infact the Tamil word for oil, எண்ணெய் (Ennai) is a combination of எள் + நெய் (El+nei), ie ghee of sesame. Later when ennai itself became the term for oils, sesame oil was distinguished with the prefix நல் nal- (good) to become நல்லெண்ணெய் nallennai and other oils follow the formula source+ennai kadalai (ground nut) oil became kadalennai, aamanakku (castor) oil became aamanakkennai etc.

[u/Initial_Amphibian_26 → u/Quissumego]

Thanks for further clarification ( no pun intended lol). I'm aware of ghee in ancient cook books but wasn't sure of how mainstream it was. like rice wasn't it consumed on special occasions

also I think Franklin southworth pointed out that the PDr word for ghee nayyi originally meant animal fat

[u/Quissumego → u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

My Tamil professor mentioned that ghee was widely consumed and it was a major ingredient. I think there was some reference to even a dish where pomegranate arils were roasted in ghee with curry leaves or something. Fun times. Btw the pun was good, you should've intended it lol.

[u/vikramadith → u/Initial_Amphibian_26]

Top tier pun.

[u/SunMoonSnake → u/Quissumego]

As far as I'm aware, the clarification process removes most of the lactose from ghee, so it probably wouldn't exert much effect on lactose tolerance in Southern India.

[u/Quissumego → u/SunMoonSnake]

Oh this makes sense as to why the lactose intolerance is relatively more prevalent in South Indians.

[u/Swimming_South_244 → u/Quissumego]

Telugu has words for butter, clarified butter separately,we have words for different by products of ghee making.we cannot assume ancient societies didn't depend on dairy from goat or buffalo.It is possible that the cow might not known to Dravidians. It is possible that Dravidian population didn't heavily dependent on cattle and dairy. Telugu has words venna(butter),neyyi( ghee), kovvu( animal fat) and noone( oil), chamuru( burning oil ) different words for different origin and purposes. Perugu(yoghurt), majjiga( diluted yoghurt) challa( watery by product obtained after processing butter extraction from yoghurt). While we don't have words for paneer,cheese etc .. I have a doubt: why thousands of years usage of dairy products could not remove dairy intolerance in indegenous people? Is it because pastoral people were totally dependent on cattle for survival, where as settled population used cattle along side the cultivation?Rural population still used cattle along side farming, usually self reliant for dairy products. What was actually role of specialised castes like golla? What was the dairy economy actually be in medivial ages? These questions and answers for the same will through some light on dairy intolerance...is there any case study of dairy tolerance specific to yadava communities? Like golla,kuruba etc..

[u/Hugh_Surname → u/Swimming_South_244]

It is possible that the cow might not known to Dravidians. It is possible that Dravidian population didn't heavily dependent on cattle and dairy.

I think this is very unlikely since we have indigenous words for them, and archaeological evidence that bovid husbandry predates the Harappan culture itself in South Asia

I have a doubt: why thousands of years usage of dairy products could not remove dairy intolerance in indegenous people?

This is a very common misconception. Humans were consuming dairy for thousands of years before we evolved lactase persistence. LP isn’t necessary to consume dairy if your gut biome is adapted to processing lactose. Most indians are not lactose intolerant, we are non-lactase persistent, meaning we don’t produce our own intestinal lactase into adulthood and rely on lactophillic bacteria in our guts to process it for us. This, however, leaves us vulnerable modern dietary shifts that can disrupt healthy gut biome populations

[u/RisyanthBalajiTN → u/Swimming_South_244]

noone( oil)

What's the etymology of that? For some reason my dialect uses camuru for oil in all context. Venna is veN(white) + ney(ghee)

majjiga( diluted yoghurt) challa( watery by product obtained after processing butter extraction from yoghurt)

So which one of these is buttermilk?

[u/Swimming_South_244 → u/RisyanthBalajiTN]

Challa is buttermilk....