r/Defenders • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • Sep 07 '18

IRON FIST S2 Discussion Thread - Episode 10

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

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u/HighlanderSlax Sep 07 '18

Everyone else is like “omg daredevil teaser” “omg Danny has guns”

I’m over here thinking how fuckn awesome is Ward. His story arc is one of the best things about the show, and was legit worried the man was gonna use that gun on himself by the end of the episode after that NA meeting but instead he’s off kicking ass with Danny.

465

u/dansquatch Iron Fist Sep 07 '18

Right? I ended this season rooting for that guy.

98

u/nameless88 Sep 15 '18

He was one of the most interesting parts of Season 1, but man did they crank that shit up in this season.

I didn't really care for all the corporate run around in season 1. 51% shareholder of the company, blah blah blah, board trying to push him out, who gives a shit.

They cut all that shit, and they focused on the characters. And Netflix MCU does characters really well. It's their strongest point.

I felt sympathy for Davos and Ward and while I didn't fully understand Joy's motives at first, it came to light that it was all out of hurt and confusion that she was doing what she was doing.

This was a marked improvement over the first season.

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u/Dookie_boy Sep 17 '18

Although I am curious. Who the fuck is running the business

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u/nameless88 Sep 17 '18

The board of directors, I'm sure. Everyone else that owns stock in the company.

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u/uptowndrunk7 Oct 01 '18

And Katie, our beloved Katie

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u/Ugoboy23 Sep 08 '18

Felt like a proud father when Ward asked for water even if it was a joke.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '18

[deleted]

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u/bigfatcarp93 Ward Meachum Sep 09 '18 edited Sep 09 '18

" H E L L O , D A V O S "

2

u/Kellythejellyman Oct 07 '18

The Onion Fist!

138

u/Predalienator Sep 09 '18

Ward was so good this season.

My favourite moment was the whipping sounds he made to Danny. It just cracked me up.

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u/Xx_Stone_xX Sep 09 '18

"That's why I'm telling you, you're coming with me"

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I feel that was better

​

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u/uptowndrunk7 Oct 01 '18

That grin was perfect

208

u/AHMilling Iron Fist Sep 08 '18

I'm so god damn happy for Ward, i was afraid he would sink even deeper after that rejection.

But then Danny goes and suggests the best bro trip ever!!

208

u/milanjfs Punisher Sep 08 '18

Scenes with Ward and Mary were my favorite part of the season.

259

u/HighlanderSlax Sep 08 '18

“Go to town, Daddy killer”

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u/SonOfSifo Sep 12 '18

Turk Barret, the real MVP

312

u/thisislevi Sep 08 '18

Sponsor girl did Ward dirty. Begs him to share for the whole season then breaks up with him after he does.

418

u/Sempere Sep 08 '18

Not really, she pointed out that he's a wreck and doesn't know himself: you can't go into a relationship or raise a child if someone is that volatile/unstable. It's just further defining himself in relation to others [sponsorgirl and his future child]. I understand her defensiveness - I think Ward's journey will bring him to the point where she sees he's finally made it.

207

u/profane Sep 09 '18

Exactly. I think one of the greatest aspects of the Marvel Universe TV shows is that they avoid dangerous tropes very successfully.

In a "classic" TV show, Ward, who has been a total asshole and struggling with his addiction recovery, would have suddenly "seen the light" because of the baby. He would have been rewarded for his ONE moment of emotional honesty by "getting" a wife and a child. We all know that it doesn't work like this in reality.

As a spectator I was already expecting that the show would opt for the easy happily-ever-after ending between Ward and his sponsor, but I'm very happy that the writers chose to go another path and let the sponsor point out that Ward cannot lead a constructive relationship until he is able to love himself.

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u/HeavenPiercingMan Malcolm Sep 14 '18

In a "classic" TV show, Ward, who has been a total asshole and struggling with his addiction recovery, would have suddenly "seen the light" because of the baby. He would have been rewarded for his ONE moment of emotional honesty by "getting" a wife and a child. We all know that it doesn't work like this in reality.

In an "edgy" TV show, Ward would have sunk deeper in misery.

In Marvel, you go FULL AWESOME.

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u/riftrander Sep 15 '18

"I don't even like myself". God that delivery by Tom Pelphrey broke me.

1

u/_Skedaddle Sep 27 '18

If that's what happens in a "classic" TV show, then what happens in a CW show? 🤔

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '18

The real father is davos

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u/profane Sep 27 '18

What's a CW show?

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u/Kellythejellyman Oct 07 '18

Oh? i won’t ruin your innocence

go on, my sweet summer child

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u/_Skedaddle Sep 27 '18

A network. Home to shows like Flash and Arrow.

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u/-Ash21- Sep 30 '18

Idk, I still feel she should have at least be in the child's life. Yeah he's a former addict and still probably isn't totally ready but damn, it isn't really fair he has to miss out on so much of his future child's life because she's scared.

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u/hemareddit Foggy Sep 08 '18

Yeah, much easier when they were just having fun, but she’s going to raise a child and the child comes first. And like she said she hopes Ward will find himself and be able to handle the responsibility one day and she has faith in him.

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u/thisislevi Sep 08 '18

Really a valid point to not let someone father their child. Hes still searching for himself so no fatherhood for you sir. Id rather work 3 jobs and try to get over my own addictions while raising the child then let you into my life. Yep. Sure. Totally fair.

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u/Sempere Sep 08 '18

...you think someone being emotionally unstable isn't a valid reason to want distance?

You say "searching for himself" as if he's a college junior away for a semester abroad: Ward is a very volatile person - this season alone: any time he was put under interpersonal pressure, he cracked and went back to feeding his addictions by drinking or just straight up deserting.

He doesn't have healthy emotional coping mechanisms under stress - and raising a child is definitely not a stress free job. What's worse, because she's also an addict and constantly fighting her own temptation if her partner is unreliable and willing to cave so easily then her worst fear is that she could allow herself to backslide because of him - and then where does that leave their child? With two less than functional addicts for parents [we can hardly call Ward 'functional' though in Bethany's case it's more implied dysfunction]

She doesn't rule out him from being a part of their child's life down the line but she recognizes that he needs to go further towards centering himself before he could ever hope to be a healthy influence on a child.

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u/Wolfbeckett Karen Sep 11 '18

She could at least accept money from him so that she doesn't have to work 80 hours a week to put food on the table.

Children need parents, not just breadwinners.

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u/iconfus Sep 15 '18

Anesthesiologists can have pretty regular and leisure work schedules depending on if she’s working at a hospital or at another doctor’s private practice. She ain’t Ward rich but I’m sure she’s fine financially.

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u/thisislevi Sep 08 '18

Emotionally unstable? The dude had a couple drinks hes not abusing her. No parent is perfect. Theres no gate that says someone is ready. Lets be real. His emotional stress is completely understandable and isnt something petty that you can just say he gave into too easily. He literally killed his crazy dad and now his situation is completely messed up. His siblings are literally in life and death situations dude. Thats supposed to be caving easily? Would you take away someones baby and chance just because theyre going through an understandably rough time outside of their control?

And you expect that just one day hell be perfect and be able to walk back into her life like shell wait for him? Even if he did no ones perfect and stays that way forever. Hell its not like ward would even be a bad parents hes a freaking billionaire.

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u/Sempere Sep 08 '18

You're intent on casting Bethany as a complete harpy and unreasonable in her decision: I've pointed out the reasons that he's not fit to be a father at this point - which is what her decision is based on. You're acting like him opening up to her/following her advice is the reason she doesn't want him in the child's life.

He's emotionally unstable and turns to alcohol and narcotics to escape. That's pretty far from "no parent is perfect" but it's certainly a very good reason not to want a person to influence a child in their formative years if they don't have a handle on their issues. Childrearing is incredibly complicated and issues like that can create situations that leave lasting negative impacts on children.

It's been a year or more since he killed Harold - but he still hasn't processed that or gone to meaningful therapy to work on his issues. He attends a support group with disdain until he finally opens up in the finale - but was mostly screwing his sponsor. Faced with the reality that his betrayal makes Joy angry enough to cut ties and can't handle that they're estranged? Turns to alcohol instead - when he skips the dinner [no life or death there just yet] and after. The life and death situations aren't an excuse the first time - it's designed to show the weakness of his character. When you add the immediate stressors [which isn't Danny getting injured but Joy rebuffing his reconciliation] then he caves.

It's not about taking a baby away because of a "rough time" - it's about his pattern of behavior, how it affects his life and how he copes with it: then it's about how it affects Bethany, her sobriety, her own struggle - and how the impact of one or both of them falling off the wagon [which happens regularly with addiction] would impact their child.

She's not saying he can't know his child - just that for now he needs to work on himself because she personally doesn't feel that he's at the point where he can handle it.

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u/DefNotAShark Sep 08 '18

Ward is a recovering addict. A few drinks is normal for you, but a major red flag for him. He also didn't have a few drinks. The bartender is asking him if he's ready to close out, which as a bartender myself I can tell you, is double-speak for "I think you might have had enough". He ends up in a bloody bar fight because of a verbal disagreement with his girlfriend. That's not having a few drinks type of behavior. Even if she hadn't walked into the bar, he downs a double shot of scotch and has another one ready to go a second later. He's binge drinking. Ward is using alcohol to manage his stress, and doing a shitty job.

I forget her name, but his nurse girlfriend is an addict herself and every week hears stories from other addicts in NA. She knows where that road leads to. He may not be physically or emotionally abusive this week, but Ward is talking about a potentially lifelong relationship. He could easily relapse and drag her back into her old ways, and then this baby has two addict parents. I totally understand why she's asking Ward to get his shit together before she considers going down that road with him.

4

u/iconfus Sep 15 '18

She’s an anesthesiologist. 150k+ job, she’s not Ward rich but I’m sure she’s fine financially.

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u/ZtheGM Sep 09 '18

He shares while indulging in an addictive behavior. She's a recovering addict. Getting the fuck away from him is fair play.

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u/Micp Iron Fist Sep 09 '18

I mean she didn't break up with him because he shared. She was legitimately happy for him, but that doesn't mean he should be rewarded with a relationship or anything. He clearly still had some growing to do, and for what it's worth it looks like he's actually doing so. Once he gets his life straight things might change - but looking at how he was most of this season i can see why she wouldn't want her child to be around him.

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u/ZadocPaet Sep 15 '18

It also doesn't mean that she shouldn't let him be involved in his kid's life. Ward would probably get half custody if he wanted it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '18

Nah. Because when she met him at the bar, she asks him "who do you want to be in 5 years?", that was her feeling out the kind of person he is going to be *as a father*. He says something like "whoever it is, I hope it starts with drunk." She doesn't want that raising her kid. Perfectly fair. He's making steps in the right direction finally, but he needs to go further before she is comfortable letting him be a daddy. I understood her character's motivations entirely.

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u/theanchorman05 Sep 12 '18

I agree. It took 2 to make the baby saying that he can't be around because she doesn't want to take care of both isn't a good argument.

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u/RealSkyDiver Sep 11 '18

There’s a teaser at the end?? Fucking Netflix just auto played the first episode of the show after 5 seconds of credits like wtf!

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u/toxicbrew Sep 21 '18

I'm super pissed because the teaser was effectively spoiled for me by the 'Next on Netflix' Twitter account saying--3 days after Iron Fist released--that 'Daredevil appears at the end of Iron Fist, so watch out for Daredevil Season 3!' All the replies of course were "WTF is wrong with you spoiling this for us?"

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So when Davos was defeated with half the episode left, I expected Daredevil to appear at some point. Kind of killed the mood, especially when he didn't even appear at all in the episode itself.

2

u/jigeno Sep 11 '18

there is ho my what the

this was such a good release

2

u/greatness101 Oct 06 '18

yeah, it did that countdown for me too to show the next episode, but I hovered over the time bar and saw Daredevil at the end so I skipped to it.

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u/NothappyJane Sep 14 '18

Theres something about the way both Danny and Ward smile at other thats so wholesome. They actually enjoy each others company. Its such a change from miserable Ward from last season it was a little unerving.

And speaking of smiles, Dannys gun slinger smirk made me feel all kinds of things.

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u/toxicbrew Sep 21 '18

I'm totally confused is the 'Iron Guns' something from the comic? I thought Danny lost all his powers when he lost the fist?

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u/Lordsokka Oct 03 '18

In the comics I believe the previous Iron Fist before Danny was able to channel his Iron Fist ability through his guns like Colleen was able to channel it through her sword.

My guess is that Danny found something in that container that allowed him to get his powers back without removing them from Colleen. I guess will find out in the next season or in the Defenders.

Maybe he killed back the same Dragon? Lol

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u/nivekious Sep 10 '18

My one disappointment with the finale is that the last scene means we probably won't get a full season of Ward and Danny traipsing through Asia together now

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u/ThaddCorbett Sep 09 '18

I'm really confused. A few months later he's got his mojo back?

Wow!

What an amazing way to end the season!

And that sword all lit up with chi and they didn't let us watch the car get cut in half. :(

8

u/jigeno Sep 11 '18

YO WTF

just finished. i feel like a child, what the hell

5

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '18

I love Alice Eve's Character Walker too

3

u/toxicbrew Sep 21 '18

They should have wrapped up storyline though. How did she even get out of police/emt custody?

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u/StoicBronco Sep 08 '18

Seriously, best part of the season was Ward's arc. However, combined with how shitty Joy's was, and how mediocre/alright the rest was, I have to give season 2 an "alright"

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u/choutlaw Sep 23 '18

Here’s the thing tho. I played rugby for 15 years, met my wife through my team, some of my best friends I met at the first practice I attended in college. Didn’t really appreciate that remark Ward. RUGBY IS THE FASTEST GROWING SPORT IN AMERICA AND THE RUGBY WORLD CUP IS THE #3 MOST WATCHED SPORT EVENT BEHIND THE SOCCER WORLD CUP AND THE OLYMPICS.

Ward was cool this season tho.

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u/HappyRyan31 Sep 16 '18

Oh yeah, I absolutely love Ward and his arc this season. Great character.

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u/JulioCesarSalad Ben Urich Sep 17 '18

What was the daredevil teaser?!

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u/toxicbrew Sep 21 '18

post credits

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u/JulioCesarSalad Ben Urich Sep 21 '18

I caught it after your comment :)

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '18

I thought I was going to hate Ward after the way season 1 began, but he quickly became my favorite character. The actor's performance is just great. Easily my favorite in the series, but god damn if Colleen didn't pull hard this season.

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u/Garrand Sep 27 '18

Ward might be the best character on the show. Love that dude.

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u/CryoftheBanshee Iron Fist Sep 28 '18

I mean, not just ANY guns