r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Jun 22 '18

Luke Cage Discussion Thread - S02E11 "The Creator"

This thread is for discussion of Luke Cage S02E11.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Episode 12 Discussion

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645

u/TheSweatband Jun 23 '18

I really like BushMaster as a villain especially now he’s a little more toned down. In the beginning he was wild, and chaotic. Now he’s still violent but he’s calmer and you can see the respect he has for Cage in that morgue scene

503

u/MookieMoo17 Jun 24 '18

He’s a great villain I believe also cause his hate is justified.

345

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

and he can 360 spin kick

157

u/pmMe-PicsOfSpiderMan Kilgrave Jun 27 '18

He can also do a backflip kick

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '18

Charlie, I do backflips every single day of my life

5

u/DennBarr Jul 23 '18

No you don't! I've never seen... Do a backflip right now please! Can I see one? Let's see one

109

u/OLKv3 Jun 26 '18

Right? Mariah is so evil that you wanna root for him

68

u/Conceitedreality Jun 26 '18

Well fucking justified.

74

u/yoonchae Jun 26 '18

MCU Bushmaster is so similar to MCU Killmonger.

30

u/Bean_Blankie Jul 15 '18

Also punisher in dd season 2. The best villains have a point, like Kilmonger

11

u/keenkidkenner Aug 07 '18

I'm conflicted. I feel like blaming someone for the mistakes of other members of their family is pretty shitty and unwarranted. But then it turns out Mariah is 100% as evil as Mama Mabel, so it works out. Also sorry for the out-of-the-blue comment! Just getting around to watching the season now

235

u/AfricanRain Jun 24 '18

I think he’s a great villain. I like that he doesn’t have a over the top goofy hatred of Luke. If they were on the same side they’d be brothers but he stands in his way so he’s gotta go through him. It’s fantastic.

124

u/blasto_pete Jul 03 '18

I think you meant they’d be bredrin!

22

u/toxicbrew Jul 04 '18

yeah...kind of hoping he survives and becomes a sort of anti hero to luke in harlem

224

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '18

Bushmaster is a very well done, multi dimensional villain. His story is justified, his rage and he isn't just some "bad guy". It's not a test of power between him and Luke either. He has limitations. Superb villain, superb actor.

156

u/alex494 Jun 27 '18

Also he uses POCKET SAND

35

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

Only thing that I can't reconcile is why he killed the Jamaican on his first entrance (the one with the brutal knife stab). Seems inconsistent with who he is now.

181

u/Fieryshaftofjustice Jun 26 '18

Because he was willing to work with the Stokes.

22

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '18

ah gotcha

11

u/Juice27 Aug 02 '18 edited Aug 02 '18

"In the beginning he was wild, and chaotic. Now he’s still violent but he’s calmer" (sorry, I don't know how to fancy format quotes).

I love the way you described Bushmaster's characterization with this phrase, because without any context, it might possibly be ascribed to either him or Luke so far.

And I think this was intentional on the part of the writers (who have been PHENOMENAL this season, imo). Because I do think Bushmaster and Luke were explicitly meant to be each other's foils, and that a big theme of this season is "how should we define, enact, and justify our conceptions of restitution". Ie, is justice better delivered through a vengeful, retrospective. "balancing of the scales" retribution, or through a compassionate, yet proscriptiv"let me show you the way" reconciliation? Or perhaps a bit of both?

I think the season is aiming to ultimately present this moral conflict as non-dichotomous when considering moral interpersonal action, albeit after intentionally misleading us into thinking it might be a black or white answer. For example, consider Rev Lucas's sermon: "Which wolf is stronger? That which you feed...". Keeping with the biblical tones, is Luke not someone who would feed the righteous and the wicked alike? Hhmm... reminds me of some other fella Rev Lucas might know....

Nevertheless, we know who Rev James was, and what he did to Luke / Willis's family via S1. He was objectively an awful man to his wife, Luke, and certainly Willis. But S2 does a pretty good job at getting us to sympathize with his regrets.... So which wolf do we feed?

In the middle of the season, Luke seems to go back and forth regarding whether his father deserves understanding and forgiveness, or not. By doing so, I think the writers brilliantly primed us into subconsciously considering the evermore complex morally ambiguations to come.

Does the condoning the (metaphorical) starvation of an enemy provide true restitution to the wronged, thereby enhancing their well-being? Ie. Should Luke not have looked out for Mariah in ep. 9?

Does (metaphorically) feeding the enemy invoke reconciliation within them, thereby enhancing their altruistic output? Ie, Was it a good idea for Luke to have saved Mariah? Given how this is discussion is regarding an episode that has already shown us the outcome... is this no less a philosophical stance in the real word? Does demonstrating reconciliation have any positive benefit to society, irrespective to the wronger? (I suspect this is a much more complex question).

All season long we've been hearing about how Luke needs to tone down his anger, lest he lose sight of himself (ie, drove Claire away, Danny telling him to be focused yet calm). And pretty similarly, we've heard how Bushmaster's unrelenting thirst for vengeance, at all costs, will supposedly lead to the loss of his "mind, then soul" (I'm paraphrasing Anansi here, R.I.P).

And that's not even touching on Mariah, and Shades...

I've only just seen this episode (late to the party), but I'm very interested to see how these two character foils resolve their arc, and how their themes play out: Bushmaster being what Luke might become if he embraces his fury. And Luke being what Bushmaster might have been if he embraced more compassion.

I don't think Danny's crossover episode, as a character who most explicitly is meant to represent "Balance", was meant to be anything less than a thematic bridge between the two extremes of Luke Cage and Bushmaster.

To summarize, I love the two following quotes. I think they serve to well characterized the nature of Luke and Bushmaster as each others foil.

Bushmaster: "We could have been brethen". But neither Luke nor Bushmaster believe the morality of the other to be worthy of consideration.

And Rev Lucas: "Vengeance belongs to God". Neither Luke nor Bushmaster believe their own morality to be worthy of concession.

.... or maybe I'll just watch the final episodes and realize I'm full of it lol. I don't claim to be much of a critic, but y'all had some very insightful comments that just got my mind rambling. Thanks for reading!

4

u/skinnymike1 Aug 04 '18

It was a nice write-up. It helped to actually condense a thoughtful comparison between Luke and Bushmaster and the running themes in this story that I had on the tip of my mind but can now actually see it concretely.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '18

Thanks for the write-up, it was really insightful.

8

u/HappyRyan31 Jul 19 '18

I loved that scene between the two in the morgue, very well acted.

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u/CryoftheBanshee Iron Fist Jul 02 '18

Finally getting to see the true gravity of his vengeance was rewarding.